What Would You Conjure for 9th Edition?

[Prot]

I thought it might be a fun exercise, and maybe a bit of speculation for us to see what we'd like to see in 9th edition.

 

Thousand Sons have a unique spot in the gameplay in 8th edition. I consider Thousand Sons a 'mainstream' marine army that does things very differently.

 

As such I'd like to see a few more things leak into Thousand Sons just to add some broader playstyle. For example, right now I feel like the only way to truly increase firepower overall is to go straight over into Chaos Knights. While that isn't terrible, what about some of the 'mainstream' chaos stuff? (without souping).

 

I'm always a bit worried when a new edition comes because for some reason it always feels like the Psychic Phase is one of the most drastically altered mechanisms in the game. As a side note, I believe we should have access to the Master of Possession powerset in some way or fashion. I can't see these particular powers being unavailable to us now that so  many MoPs have been sold by now.

 

Right now I'm looking over my old hardcopy of "Wrath of Magnus". What a great book that was.... While some lament the old Detachments, I think there's room to bring some back with some adjustments. A lot of us were hoping for this with our Psychic Awakening treatment. 

 

For some specifics, I've still love to see something done with the Mutalith. I think it needs a lot of love personally, but the premise of it is still attractive to me. Thematically it just fits.

 

Tzaangors. This is the intergalactic sore spot of Thousand Sons' players everywhere. What to do with these guys? Obviously there was a push to get these guys over from AoS onto a 40K platform and unfortunately that became our -biggest- development at the drop of our codex in 8th! 

 

I admit I was one of the first to voice my displeasure at GW's lack of creativity here. But they really are a hard unit to discount from a competitive standpoint, particularly the humble Tzaangor troop. 

 

Command Points, hypothetically speaking, could change everything (no pun intended).  Let's say (as GW has hinted) that you are making a list with a -set- amount of.... 20 Command Points for a 2000 point list. (I assume it will scale - I'm guessing a certain amount per 500 points or 'power level'. 

 

In my hypothetical, if you will average 20 CP based on a typical tournament sized list, BUT those CP are not derived, in any way, from your list composition how does that change your list? 

- Do you still take Cultists?

- Do you still take Tzaangors?

- Do you cram your list with Rubrics, and suffer the body count, in exchange for those characters?

 

Right now Thousand Sons, as a solo faction, don't win much of anything. However Thousand Sons are possibly the most popular Supreme Command detachment of competitive play. 

 

I think GW indicated the CP boost would somehow incorporate less soup. I don't know if that's going to be a 'rule' or simply their comment on anticpating less souping since one of the many side benefits is easier to fill Batallions. I'm hoping the 'flat CP' change is somehow related to not souping, I think this will force more balanced writing of rules.

 

That being said, I do hope that for chaos, there is a smoother integration of Daemons within their related Chaos Space Marine faction. It's still awkward right now, and Daemons aren't in a great spot. I think Tzeentch (for example) Daemons should be easily integrated with the appropriate CSM units providing the mark is there, and there should be no penalty for this. 

 

So what do you think? What change are you looking for?

[Kite Senet]

Personally: I, as a very non-competitive player, can be happy as long as I can play Rubric Marines and lots of them. As such, my priorities with respect to 9th edition rules are subservient to that: I want more spell options for my Aspiring Sorcerers and Scarab Occult Sorcerers (at least give me all six decent and/or fun ones, please!). I want fun and fluffy stratagems for my Rubric Marines like those introduced in RotD printed in the codex itself. It'd be nice to have a Rubric upgrade sprue with force swords to match the Intercessors' push into melee combat. But more than anything, I want Rubric Marines to be the stars of the codex--it should be *unthinkable* that any Thousand Sons player would not automatically add at least one unit of Rubric Marines to their list. Ideally, I'd have any other additions serve a supporting role to the Rubricae.

 

Also, as a total math nerd, I really hope the Cult of Scheming is retained with their Cha'qi'thl's Theorem gear. I don't even care if it's good, but it's just too much fun (as a casual player) to play around with the idea that my sorcerers are a cabal of occult mathematicians applying some ridiculous daemonic theorem to manipulate fate in some incomprehensible way. It's always been my own mental image of my personal Thousand Sons army, and it's nice to have a Cult that represents that in-game.

[WarriorFish]

I think many of the things I'd like to see/issues are codex related, such as unit selections and the like. So as much as getting the new CSM units and new Sons choices would be great it's not something 9th directly as the main rules will do.

 

The Command Point stuff is interesting, but we need to know more. I'm also concerned that it might be at the expense of fun and lore. Not everyone who takes allied forces is doing it to pick and choose the most powerful combinations, and armies that are taken for external reasons (e.g. Guard "loyal 32" and Sons supreme command) shouldn't suffer for it either :confused: I'm hoping it solves the problem without collateral damage but we'll see.

 

I'm hoping 9th can tip the balance more in the favour of elite armies as this will help Rubric armies out a lot, and there's a fair few of us who think a Thousand Sons army means it has Thousand Sons in :P

[The Yncarne]

Since this edition seems to be a polish rather than a rethink, I can only hope that the terrain and line of sight rules do not diminish the ability to remove my opponent's models. I see the Sons major issues to be codex related and therefore don't think 9th edition will change how I play Sons (which is marine-centric with no fantasy or cultist units).

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I would love to not have to go to Forge world or knights for decent heavy fire power or fliers, maybe some kind of flying daemon engine

[Prot]

I think I said this but a lot of these 'I'd like to shoot better' requests kind of go inline with just giving us more of the chaos baseline (which isn't amazing at shooting anyway).

 

I agree on the daemons/fantasy line. I think most of us do. I think that's been the BIGGEST request/complaint/comment over the past several years. Everyone seems to have some variant of saying 'I don't want to have to take Forgeworld/Daemons/Goats". 

 

The good news is by our Psychic Awakening, I believe they turned full attention on to our core units. Maybe that's an indicator of how 9th will treat our units? 

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Anyone else thinking the new detatchments/cp rules will make it hard to use multiple/non top tier cults?

Admitably I only got about 4 games before lock down, but would normally go with time as my main detatchment with the cult of knowledge added on, but now taking detatchments for extra cults may cut into the cp pool a lot.

[DavionStar]

I'm the weird one I guess since I don't mind the Tzaangor units. I kinda like them actually. I mean 1) The Sons don't have a lot of numbers to begin with so it would make sense that they'd get whatever bodies they can and 2) Tzeentch is the god of, among other things, mutations. So a mutant militia kinda makes sense. Though that's not saying that anyone HAS to like them, I just don't think that they're as out of place as folk say. *shrugs* But that's just my opinion.

 

As for an answer to this question, a few things.

 

- Similar point to above as we're the Legion that follows a god of magic. Let us bring daemons in Thousand Sons detachments without having to summon them.

- Give Rubrics more weapon options or give us another marine unit that has some anti-armor. Hell, I'll take a squad of permanently overcharged plasma gun/cannon rubrics that are likely to explode themselves on the first volley.

- Give some of our demons some ranged anti-armor. Let's go all Dawn of War 1. Anti-tank Horrors.

- Maybe a unique tank for our faction. Like a heretical Immolator spewing warpfire or something. Or unique daemon engines and/or special Tzeentch rules for existing ones.

[Are Verlo]

Well my 2 or 3 latest/most recent list was battalion + vanguard or spearhead. The battalion had 2 HQs, because I have tried a few lists where it is NOT the HQs doing all the heavy lifting and the spearhead was 1 sorc and 3 HS or Elites.

 

With the new rules I can merge the detatchments, play one battalion and have a net gain of CP (12 with 9th ed rules, 3+5+1 with 8th ed). But I lose the option of a 4th HQ if I want one.

 

Edit: But one thing I lose out on is the option to dedicated the deatachments to different cults.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Are Verlo

[JamesI]

I already tended to pack in rubrics, so I am expecting I don't change much in my lists.  

[byrd9999]

Rubric Marines are my favourite line GW has ever put out, so I'd like more options and flexibility with them, especially the sorcerers, more spells, easier casting.

 

I like the Tzaangors. They don't cost much, they're fun to paint, and a 20-goat blob of Tzaangors with a Shaman is fun to play.

 

They're also thematic as subservient beings to sorcerous T-Sons, like Khayon's Tzaangor in Black Legion (Tza'q? Zack?).

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I'm the weird one I guess since I don't mind the Tzaangor units. I kinda like them actually. I mean 1) The Sons don't have a lot of numbers to begin with so it would make sense that they'd get whatever bodies they can and 2) Tzeentch is the god of, among other things, mutations. So a mutant militia kinda makes sense. Though that's not saying that anyone HAS to like them, I just don't think that they're as out of place as folk say. *shrugs* But that's just my opinion.

 

As for an answer to this question, a few things.

 

- Similar point to above as we're the Legion that follows a god of magic. Let us bring daemons in Thousand Sons detachments without having to summon them.

- Give Rubrics more weapon options or give us another marine unit that has some anti-armor. Hell, I'll take a squad of permanently overcharged plasma gun/cannon rubrics that are likely to explode themselves on the first volley.

- Give some of our demons some ranged anti-armor. Let's go all Dawn of War 1. Anti-tank Horrors.

- Maybe a unique tank for our faction. Like a heretical Immolator spewing warpfire or something. Or unique daemon engines and/or special Tzeentch rules for existing ones.

My problem comes from the fact they were essentially shoved down our throats and one of the laziest cut and pasts instead of any actual Thousand sons units, just compare our model range to the Deathguard one which is easily twice the size.

I wish we could give the Tzaangor autoguns or some kind of ranged weapon though.

[byrd9999]

 

I wish we could give the Tzaangor autoguns or some kind of ranged weapon though.

 

 

*Waves Tzeentchian magic wand* Ta da! Autopistols for your Tzaangors!

[DavionStar]

 

My problem comes from the fact they were essentially shoved down our throats and one of the laziest cut and pasts instead of any actual Thousand sons units, just compare our model range to the Deathguard one which is easily twice the size.

I wish we could give the Tzaangor autoguns or some kind of ranged weapon though.

 

 

That's fair. DG get several unique vehicles, lots of fast attack options, more elites, and Plague Marines get far more weapon options. Sure, we can throw smites out like no tomorrow, but not being able to have a solid anti-tank infantry unit (I apologize for sounding like a broken record, but its true) still sucks. And the Mutalith, though I love the model, has to get in really close to do anything. (Though now I'm wondering about the possibility to Sorcerous Facade it next to a pile of Tzaangor. Hmm) DG got stuff from AoS too, but they also got even more on top of it. I fully agree that we need more options. The extra casting doesn't add enough to versatility, as fun as it is.

 

And one thing I've honestly been finding lacking in the games I've been playing is our lack of 36" ranged weapons. Against the two folk I've played against, I've always got a pack of Lootas or Retributers sitting on a building with huge range on me. Pretty sure most if not all our attack spells are 24" max. Which is a nice boost over other armies, but still. Only way to get that range outside of vehicles is Cultists. I honestly feel like the Fatecaster Greatbows should be 36", but the Enlightened are fairly cheap anyway so I don't know if I should complain that much. I guess a couple of Helbrutes hanging in the back with Heavy Bolters or Autocannons could do that but again, vehicles. And that no invul hurts a lot. So yeah, we could still use a new unit or two.

 

 

 

I wish we could give the Tzaangor autoguns or some kind of ranged weapon though.

 

 

*Waves Tzeentchian magic wand* Ta da! Autopistols for your Tzaangors!

 

 

12" barely counts as 'ranged' in this game. ;P They're Strength 4 warp enhanced mutants. Let them take normal bolters or something. Just charge us extra for them. That alone would be nice.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

 

 

I wish we could give the Tzaangor autoguns or some kind of ranged weapon though.

 

 

*Waves Tzeentchian magic wand* Ta da! Autopistols for your Tzaangors!

 

I'm guessing you are being sarcastic? Autopistols don't really have the stats in anyway to actually be useful.

[byrd9999]

 

 

 

I wish we could give the Tzaangor autoguns or some kind of ranged weapon though.

 

 

*Waves Tzeentchian magic wand* Ta da! Autopistols for your Tzaangors!

 

I'm guessing you are being sarcastic? Autopistols don't really have the stats in anyway to actually be useful.

 

 

Actually, I was trying not to sound sarcastic :)  My initial post was sarcastic so I changed it. Granted, their guns are useless, but they do have them.

[Zodd1888]

12" Warpflamers.

[Zodd1888]

Oh my word! The new Fabius Bile Army Rules intrigued me greatly!

 

Maybe Ahriman/Magnus will provide a whole army bonus like his.

 

Super cool!

[Sonoftherubric21]

I don't actually think we *need* very much... but I of course have my wish-listing.... PSYCHIC BLOODY DREADNOUGHTS! 

 

A new unit or 2 down the line of Marines or Marine-Support type units would be wonderful. (as in actual marines, not Goats, we have a solid core of Goats and gribblies). That would fix any major issues we have (melee staying power? mayhaps?) 

 

With the cults, our current book, and the new strats we got we seem to be (overall) in a very healthy position despite the relatively limited model line. But we will see how things shift and turn after 9th. 

 

I agree with the above noting *Some* kind of new elite characters or unit, something akin to the shaman goat we have now. A "cabal Sorcerer acolyte" type character, or a "support flag rubricae" or something along those lines. 

 

Side note: who in the name of gork wrote that Magnus couldn't be part of a cult? He should have access to EVERY SINGLE ONE of those spells! 

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Sonoftherubric21

[Archaeinox]

The more I think about it, the more I want them to just lift the restrictions for cults being detachments.

 

Literally just name a psyker from X cult. 

 

That's all I want.

[Montoya]

Since i play both Blood Angels and Thousand sons, I'm with Sonoftherubric.... Psychic dreadnaughts.    It's crazy that we don't get them.    

 

It won't happen mind you.   But it should!!!!

[Xisor]

Maybe I've dreamt it into being, but I'd love to see them go a bit more flexible on 'stable kit bashes' or 'alternate configurations from multiple boxes'; e.g. letting Rubricae Havocs exist, allowing for the inclusion of pertinent non-Rubricae & Daemonkin units such as Warp Talons, Obliterators, Venomcrawlers, Masters of Possessions etc.

 

Heck, Thousand-Sons-y versions them would work - all characters as psykers in some fashion, all non-psykers as somewhat soulless automata. (-6th of their movement?)

 

Like, outright license and encouragement to kit bash.

 

(Rubricae with close combat weapons would be cool.)

 

---

 

Personally, I'd also quite like to see a little more fun with:

- Blackstone Fortress pieces introduced more widely, like Chaos mortal leaders in the traitor Commissar and Rogue Psykers (Tzaanor Shaman as HQ too, is always a little attraction - fielding an all Tzaangor/possessed/cultists force would be cool - a sort of Thousand Sons adjacent force from Magnus' Psychic Paradise). The regular beastmen as a step between cultists and Tzaangors could be neat.

 

- Flexibility in including the supporting Cults

 

- As said above, the Daemonkin would be kinda cool. Not every Thousand Sons Sorcerer will be an Ahriman-esque purist. (And even he wasn't too restrained on 'breaking the rules'.) This would obviously be a lot better too if the main Rubricae-based units have more flexibility in config too! (E.g. Havocs, close combat equipment etc.)

 

----

 

That said, in pure prediction, I think it'd be a lot of fun to have more Rhino/Predator/Vindicator/Land Raider mechanised Thousand Sons, a sort of classic looking force that works, but is fundamentally a lot simpler to play too, as the number of psychic components and wargear fiddles is a lot less to keep track of. :)

Edited June 21, 2020 by Xisor