Are DA Bladeguard likely to be part of the 1st Company?

[Master Sheol]

Does this mean we can trust Primaris now?

According to a WD article DA started to recruit their own primaris marines with the tech given by BobbyG

DA started to trust primaris cause they are proving reliable and some are inducted into RW and DW

The article shows the examples of the First primaris members of DW and RW and One is a Cawl primaris while the other One was created and trained by the DA themselves

[G8Keeper]

 

Does this mean we can trust Primaris now?

According to a WD article DA started to recruit their own primaris marines with the tech given by BobbyG

DA started to trust primaris cause they are proving reliable and some are inducted into RW and DW

The article shows the examples of the First primaris members of DW and RW and One is a Cawl primaris while the other One was created and trained by the DA themselves

 

[MithrilForge]

Well if you weren't a bitter blinkered lore fan and have accepted Sigmarines err i meant Primaris you could've seen that a mile off...

I do really like the Blade-guard in Bone   probably the best looking ones so far actually ( I like Ultra's but the colour scheme doesn't work on the BG)

what with the new bikes and buggy I see Ravenwing living on and perhaps Deathwing with all these Blade-Guard units... 

 

Embrace the future...or be a Dark Angel and be distrustful ...

 

Mithril

[Fierce Bear]

Does this mean we can trust Primaris now?

Sure thing Brother, especially with that new member of the interrogator-Chaplains around to watch over them, you know, the one with the executioner sword...

 

 

[Skywrath]

Wouldn't be suprised if there were novels accompanying the release, that theoretically would tie the new levels of primaris trust with the existing lore of the Deathwing. Because I would really like to see what they do with that.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Skywrath

[Wrath of Bruinen]

 

I'm thinking a little inspiration from 30k legion here, perhaps rather than an all bone-white scheme the could easily be Primaris Companions...

If any primaris wants to catch a deathblow for one of my beloved Firstborn, they can be my guest

[Angel of Solitude]

I'm interested in what the stats of these guys will be like. Given that they appear to come with a minimum squad size of 3, I can't help but think they'll be pricey but powerful units. My thoughts on them are as follows:

 

Armour/Toughness/Wounds

• T4/3+ save in line with other regular non-Gravis armoured Primaris
• They look like they have an Iron Halo - so 4++ too?
• Storm Shields - 3++ in current edition, so why the Iron Halo? Unless there are new rules for Storm Shields in this edition. -1 to hit in Melee, perhaps?
• 2W per model? - 3W appears to be reserved for Gravis, Firstborn Veterans have same wound profile as regular Firstborn.

Attacks/Weapons

• Veteran Intercessors stratagem gives +1 A, so could expect base 3 attacks
• Models listed as having Master-crafted power swords, so S4 / AP-3 / D2
• WS 3+. Even though they're positioned as melee specialists, 3+ is fully in line with other Elite troop choices.

Special Rules

• The speculative part...perhaps we might see things like Martial Superiority (always fight first) and Superlative Duelist (re-roll hit/wound rolls)?
• Teleport Strike... 
• ...or ability to assault out of transports.

Thoughts?

[Malakithe]

 

Does this mean we can trust Primaris now?

According to a WD article DA started to recruit their own primaris marines with the tech given by BobbyG

DA started to trust primaris cause they are proving reliable and some are inducted into RW and DW

The article shows the examples of the First primaris members of DW and RW and One is a Cawl primaris while the other One was created and trained by the DA themselves

 

The DA have the tech available to make full on Primaris? How did that happen? And no one else does? 

[Angel of Solitude]

I think the distinction is being made between Greyshields / veterans of the Indomitous Crusade that later joined the Dark Angels, as opposed to new aspirants who have been given the Primaris implants right from the start.  

[Gederas]

Does this mean we can trust Primaris now?

According to a WD article DA started to recruit their own primaris marines with the tech given by BobbyG

DA started to trust primaris cause they are proving reliable and some are inducted into RW and DW

The article shows the examples of the First primaris members of DW and RW and One is a Cawl primaris while the other One was created and trained by the DA themselves

The DA have the tech available to make full on Primaris? How did that happen? And no one else does?

Every Chapter can make Primaris marines themselves now. There's three types of Primaris:

1. Awoken: The Greyshields, the Primaris from the first batch from Mars.
2. Indoctrinated: The in-house Primaris that Chapters are producing.
3. Ascended: The Primaris who were firstborn who crossed the Rubicon Primaris.

In the Dark Angels we have a named example for all three (two from the September 2019 White Dwarf's Index Astartes article):

1. Awoken: Apharan, first Primaris inducted in to the Deathwing.
2. Indoctrinated: Nerael of the Ravenwing
3. Ascended: Master Lazarus of the 5th Company

 

 

[bigtrouble]

I'm interested in what the stats of these guys will be like. Given that they appear to come with a minimum squad size of 3, I can't help but think they'll be pricey but powerful units. My thoughts on them are as follows:

 

Armour/Toughness/Wounds

 

• T4/3+ save in line with other regular non-Gravis armoured Primaris
• They look like they have an Iron Halo - so 4++ too?
• Storm Shields - 3++ in current edition, so why the Iron Halo? Unless there are new rules for Storm Shields in this edition. -1 to hit in Melee, perhaps?
• 2W per model? - 3W appears to be reserved for Gravis, Firstborn Veterans have same wound profile as regular Firstborn.

Attacks/Weapons

• Veteran Intercessors stratagem gives +1 A, so could expect base 3 attacks
• Models listed as having Master-crafted power swords, so S4 / AP-3 / D2
• WS 3+. Even though they're positioned as melee specialists, 3+ is fully in line with other Elite troop choices.

Special Rules

• The speculative part...perhaps we might see things like Martial Superiority (always fight first) and Superlative Duelist (re-roll hit/wound rolls)?
• Teleport Strike... 
• ...or ability to assault out of transports.

Thoughts?

I would guess that’s a 5++ rather than 4++, but it does look like an iron halo. I would guess that lore wise, the 1st company wouldn’t have more than a handful of these guys. What I want to know is if they have a teleport option.

[jaxom]

I'd guess no inherent Deep Strike ability because it doesn't fit for the general version of the unit. I don't think the unit will get more than the Deathwing keyword for being Dark Angels.

 

 

I'm thinking a little inspiration from 30k legion here, perhaps rather than an all bone-white scheme the could easily be Primaris Companions...

 

The Bladeguard alone have me questioning if I want to keep painting Primaris as my homemade chapter or as 30k Dark Angels. Seriously, major Deathwing Companion vibes from those models.

 

Wouldn't be suprised if there were novels accompanying the release, that theoretically would tie the new levels of primaris trust with the existing lore of the Deathwing. Because I would really like to see what they do with that.

 

I... am hesitant, simply because War of Secrets was such a ... divisive... novel. I'm waiting until I can read The Lion (seriously, the time between the limited release and general release is ridiculous) before I update my opinion of Black Library's general "allowed" perspective on the Dark Angels.

 

I'm interested in what the stats of these guys will be like. Given that they appear to come with a minimum squad size of 3, I can't help but think they'll be pricey but powerful units. My thoughts on them are as follows:

 

 

*SNIP*

 

Thoughts?

 

Armour/Toughness/Wounds

 

• T4/3+ save in line with other regular non-Gravis armoured Primaris
  Yep.
   
• They look like they have an Iron Halo - so 4++ too?
  Kind of. See the next point.
   
• Storm Shields - 3++ in current edition, so why the Iron Halo? Unless there are new rules for Storm Shields in this edition. -1 to hit in Melee, perhaps?
  Model that automatically come with SS and IH only get the 3++ and the ability (it's not part of the stat line) is listed as "Storm Shield & Iron Halo." Models with an IH that can be upgraded to have SS get both saves (but can only use one). I imagine the Bladeguard will have the former.
   
• 2W per model? - 3W appears to be reserved for Gravis, Firstborn Veterans have same wound profile as regular Firstborn.
  Hard to say. The Victrix Honour Guard look like predecessors to Bladeguard. They are 3W each, but only have normal power swords while the Bladeguard have master crafted power swords.

Attacks/Weapons

• Veteran Intercessors stratagem gives +1 A, so could expect base 3 attacks
  Looking at the Victrix Honour Guard I'd guess 3 attacks. 
   
• Models listed as having Master-crafted power swords, so S4 / AP-3 / D2
  We know now from the WarCom article they also have heavy bolt pistols.
   
• WS 3+. Even though they're positioned as melee specialists, 3+ is fully in line with other Elite troop choices.
  Yep.

Special Rules

• The speculative part...perhaps we might see things like Martial Superiority (always fight first) and Superlative Duelist (re-roll hit/wound rolls)? 
  Based off the name, I'm guessing a wound intercept mechanic like Company Veterans. This would give all Chapters a Primaris bodyguard unit and not just Ultramarines.
   
• Teleport Strike...or ability to assault out of transports.
  Unlikely part of their base rules. Assuming they actually get the Deathwing keyword then they can be used with Fortress of Shields, Fury of the First, Stand Firm, and Out Numbered But Never Outmatched.

Edited June 19, 2020 by jaxom

[UtariOnzo]

Fortress of shields alone would make these guys interesting piling out of a repulsor..

 

I’m pretty certain the relevant units will get the keywords, given the literature has specifically called these guys, and the outriders, out on their respective wings, similar to how they explicitly said the Vanguard units had their respective non-codex chapter keywords on their release

[jaxom]

Yeah, the Bladeguard seem like Deathwing Knights-lite because of the D2 weapons, storm shields, and ability to use most of the Deathwing strategies (Fortress of Shields, Fury of the First, Stand Firm, and Out Numbered But Never Outmatched).

[Angel of Solitude]

Fury of the First and Stand Firm explicitly reference the TERMINATOR keyword, so wouldn’t be useable with Bladeguard. They could decide to FAQ it, but I’d like to think GW would want to keep something to make the Deathwing Terminators unique.

 

I like the comparison with the Victrix guard - given the new Look Out, Sir rule, there is a need for more character protection. Regular Company Veterans have the Command Squad Bodyguard rule, so it would make sense for the Bladeguard Veterans to also have this rule.

 

If that’s the case, then it makes Lazarus a nice take. Incoming fire to Lazarus gets passed to the Bladeguard, who then get a 5+++ against the mortal wound...

[Volt]

The day GW transitions to Primaris without any proper TEQ for Deathwing is the day I drop the game finally. Frankly they fan feth off with this nonsense and obsession with generalizing every chapter yet still having separate codices while slowly turning all chapters into the same damn thing. I play DA because of the Deathwing and Ravenwing being distinct units, not because they're just a run of the mill First and Second company with the exact same units as other Chapters.

[Berzul]

I do not expect GW to phase out the firstborn entirely until there are replacement units for all firstborn unitS. So, a TEQ unit should happen before the TDA are removed.

[jaxom]

Fury of the First and Stand Firm explicitly reference the TERMINATOR keyword, so wouldn’t be useable with Bladeguard. They could decide to FAQ it, but I’d like to think GW would want to keep something to make the Deathwing Terminators unique.

Oops, that’s what I get for going by memory : )

[Angel of Solitude]

I guess it’s written like that to stop you using them on Deathwing Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders. They may FAQ it to read DEATHWING INFANTRY instead.

[jaxom]

The day GW transitions to Primaris without any proper TEQ for Deathwing is the day I drop the game finally. Frankly they fan feth off with this nonsense and obsession with generalizing every chapter yet still having separate codices while slowly turning all chapters into the same damn thing. I play DA because of the Deathwing and Ravenwing being distinct units, not because they're just a run of the mill First and Second company with the exact same units as other Chapters.

 

Something in the "9th edition and Dark Angels" thread got me thinking more about this. Were you referring to Deathwing Knights and Ravenwing Black Knights, specifically?

[Doghouse]

Speaking as a Rogue Trader Dark Angels player the Death Wing wearing white power armour is a thing that existed back in the day so isn't really new to me in that respect. They even painted a squad for the metal bodied plastic arms/guns/shoulders/pack strike force to show off the then new Mk7 armour.

 

 

I really like the Bladeguard in the bone armour, that is a really nice look. To be honest though as with the other examples they gave of these guys in their chapter colours not all Bladeguard are first company and as they said you could do them in green armour with cream Tabards/Scapulars to represent regualar company veterans.

 

[Fajita Fan]

To me DA first company are terminators. I still haven’t read the Primaris fluff and don’t intend to but I ain’t painting first company Primaris.

 

#takeastand

[Interrogator Stobz]

I, like Brother Doghouse picked up Deathwing and Dark Angels back in the murky days of RT when they weren't all TDA. The new minis look great/better in bone than the others we've seen too.

 

But the last seven Editions have been totally consistent, only TDA in the Deathwing Company.

No surprise to anyone here that I'm with Fajita Fan.

But to each their own, many will love it and they have my support.

 

#takeastand

Edited June 21, 2020 by Interrogator Stobz

[Berzul]

I plan on getting some down the line, as I plan on making a Primaris-only part to my successors.

But, these guys will be the Veterans to my Primaris only 5th Company. They wont be 1st Company.

While I dont TECHNICALLY have a Deathwing part of my army, I am with you guys.

#takeastand

 

EDIT: I actually have deathwing models, it's just that my "deathwing" (which is called the Excerviunt) are spread out. One half of the 1st co. is TDA battle brothers, and then each veteran squad in each battle company is also TDA. That's how my DW goes. Once Bladeguard are in, they will go to a Battle Company of Primaris (the 5th Co), and should they come with the DW Keyword, well, ok, they'll have it mechanically, but they won't really be Deathwing. They will just be veterans, similar to Company Veterans (who make up the other half of my 1st Co)

Edited June 21, 2020 by Berzul

[Fajita Fan]

I understand GW wanting to sell new models but just shoehorning Primaris into established lore is kinda annoying.  What's next? Primaris Sanguinary Guard?  Primaris Wulfen?  I understand Primaris in the Inner Circle but to simply add them to the first company seems kinda superflous.

 

I could totally see 1st company terminators changing into their own special primaris Inner Circle unit who know about the Fallen but it just doesn't seem right that an entire force who teleports down to a battle now has to wait for Repulsors to fly in and drop off the new guys. 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Fajita Fan