Levels of Khornate Devotion

[Bro Castiel]

Hello Brothers and Sisters of B&C,

 

My knowledge on the topic of Chaos gods, in particular Khorne, is very minimal and I have been wondering if there are varying levels of devotion (insanity?) upon pledging your soul to Khorne?

 

For example, can a marine be level headed during day to day and completely lose it in close quarters? Do those that pledge themselves to Khorne all end up like the betrayer Khârn unless they die first?

 

The reason is that I love taking stories in a slightly different direction than expected and was considering what would happen to the Celestial Lions if they decided to give the Imperium a giant middle finger after their losses at the hands of the Inquisition. I know I would have been mildly miffed!

 

Add to this that I have some Khorne marines and several loyalist marines and I was thinking that my angry lions could join (until in fighting flares) with a Khornate warband they encounter.

 

I just want to make sure that my 'What If' theory is at least plausible within the canon of Khorne. For the sake of this argument lets just assume that the lions do go renegade because I know that according to canon they are still loyal and this is purely for my own spin.

 

As always, thanks in advance B&C family.

 

Cas

[Jalgar]

It is absolutely plausible. Many of those who have devoted themselves to Khorne are not raging berserkers. They may be driven by martial pride or rage by an incident that has occurred (your example of the Celestial Lions) in their history.

 

I would even say that the reason the World Eater marines are frothing at the mouth, rabid berserkers may be more due to the butcher’s nails than their worship of Khorne.

[Bro Castiel]

Thanks for the answers @Jalgar and @ MetalMammoth. That gives me what I needed.

 

Happy hunting.

[Cheex]

Uzas from the Night Lords books is a great example. Lheor from the Black Legion books, too.

 

I've only read (well, listened to) the first Night Lords book, but Uzas appears to be slowly losing it. He doesn't seem to overtly worship Khorne, but he has certainly accepted Khorne's gifts of increased aggression and strength, and is slowly slipping down the slope. Lheor was actively fighting against the Nails to maintain control - his chosen weapon was a heavy bolter, after all.

 

One narrative element of Chaos that I quite like to see is how different things appear from different perspectives. I like the idea of a Khornite who believes they have received the War God's gifts and have melded them into making them a more powerful warrior who is second to none, but from an outside perspective they just appear to be a raving lunatic.

[Scribe]

It can be anything you wish it to be.

[Scribe]

The way I look at it, is once you are on the road, you dont get an off ramp. Chaos Worship, is a feedback loop. You begin to worship Khorne, and Khorne turns toward you. As you gain his focus, you worship more, and he focuses on you further.

 

There are 3 ways out.

 

1. You die.

2. You falter, you cannot take the next step in worship, you hesitate when you should have struck the blow, or fate strikes randomly, and you become a Spawn.

3. You become a Daemon Prince.

 

There is not real 'deescalation' on this path. You are in it, and you will only further increase your alignment with Khorne, but there is no reason that has to be done 0 to 100. It could take years, decades, or 1000's of years.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Scribe

[battle captain corpus]

Also things to consider are that the Nails are both:

1) no longer exclusive to the World Eaters

2) devotees to Khorne need not have them either.

Khorne followers need only to want to bath in the glory of bloodshed to receive his blessing/curse after all.

But it is a one way path. Once down it you’ll find most can’t simply “have enough”. Like all excess, it needs to be taken to the next level until star systems themselves fall to Khorne Warbands.

 

BCC

Edited June 7, 2020 by battle captain corpus

[MegaVolt87]

I would say your life expectancy shortens over time as just an average khorne follower. You need to be something special like Karn to really survive long term. If khorne has blessed you for bullets and energy beams to dissapear/ miss/ explode before they hit you, at that point being so favoured, you would have little to no real self identity, self control or rational thought. Interestingly though, khorne's demons are actually less afflicted than blessed mortal followers as far as I can tell. Pure feroicty can't win against brains and discipline, like how Perty bought back Angorn to Ullanor for Horus in Slaves to Darkness in the HH. 

[Lord_Caerolion]

But that's the thing, the only real Khornate highly-favoured worshipers we've seen are all World Eaters, so they not only have the changes brought by Khorne worship, but also of the Butchers Nails.

[MegaVolt87]

But that's the thing, the only real Khornate highly-favoured worshipers we've seen are all World Eaters, so they not only have the changes brought by Khorne worship, but also of the Butchers Nails.

What about crimson slaughter / blood gorgons? I heard those guys are pretty Khorne OP, but their fluff is panned as terrible? I don't know much about them honestly.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Crimson Slaughter aren't Khornate, they're just "crazy Marines". Blood Gorgons I don't know much about, other than them being the personal favourites of our good friend Moonreaper666 and being from a book series that got removed from Black Library due to plagiarism.

[Scion]

Crimson Slaughter aren't Khornate, they're just "crazy Marines". Blood Gorgons I don't know much about, other than them being the personal favourites of our good friend Moonreaper666 and being from a book series that got removed from Black Library due to plagiarism.

The visions the Crimson slaughter get are khorne's work, maybe they dont realize but they do serve him.

[Khornestar]

 

Crimson Slaughter aren't Khornate, they're just "crazy Marines". Blood Gorgons I don't know much about, other than them being the personal favourites of our good friend Moonreaper666 and being from a book series that got removed from Black Library due to plagiarism.

The visions the Crimson slaughter get are khorne's work, maybe they dont realize but they do serve him.

 

 

Wasn't Tzeentch involved/manipulating them, in some way? It's been a long time since I've read that storyline.

[Irate Khornate]

 

 

 

 

Crimson Slaughter aren't Khornate, they're just "crazy Marines". Blood Gorgons I don't know much about, other than them being the personal favourites of our good friend Moonreaper666 and being from a book series that got removed from Black Library due to plagiarism.

The visions the Crimson slaughter get are khorne's work, maybe they dont realize but they do serve him.

Wasn't Tzeentch involved/manipulating them, in some way? It's been a long time since I've read that storyline.

It's a rare case of they got the blessing/curse from both gods. Tzeench had a Lord of Change possess the chief librarian that lead them down the path. The whispers were due to Khorne and that's why they only stop after killing. 6th edition stated how to build the named hq for them and it included the mark of Tzeench.

[Verbal Underbelly]

I remember a story from Liber Chaotica where a Khorne worshipper felt alive during battle but then felt hollow and depressed after, stating regret at not being able to feel any other emotions. That shows more nuance to Khorne than all the rage all the time.

 

As someone else said above Khorne is also an aspect of martial pride and honour. I could well imagine Samurai being Khorne worshippers.

[Scribe]

As someone else said above Khorne is also an aspect of martial pride and honour. I could well imagine Samurai being Khorne worshippers.

 

They absolutely would be. There is an undercurrent of eastern religion's in Khorne's themes.

[MrMetalArm]

Khârn is actually a fairly calm guy, save for when the Nails take him. He's not always KILL MAIM BURN. Save for a lot of other followers of Khorne, as a lot of them still have a sense of honor about them, since Khorne is also the chaos god of martial pride. So no, followers of Khorne aren't always KILL MAIN BURN, and there's plenty of ways you can take it. 

[Closet Skeleton]

 

As someone else said above Khorne is also an aspect of martial pride and honour. I could well imagine Samurai being Khorne worshippers.

 

They absolutely would be. There is an undercurrent of eastern religion's in Khorne's themes.

 

?

 

There's no such thing as 'eastern religion' in any way that would be identifiable in a rather vaguely sketched fantasy god. Historical Samurai were mostly Buddhist which is a non-violent religion so they were pretty impious by definition. Pious Samurai tended to focus on hobbies like poetry and painting while only being begrudgingly prepared to obey violent orders.

 

One could very definitely translate a pop culture samurai into a Khornate warrior but pop culture Samurai are associated more with secular value systems than religious devotion. Historical Samurai fought duels and collected severed heads but more in spite of divine sanction than anything else. Confucian values condone fighting for the honour of nation and family but not killing for personal glory and certainly not for a god who cares for violence above all else.

 

Khornate warriors aren't honourable in the 'devoted servitude and slavery to duty' sense you'll find in the Hagakure, they follow orders only out of respect for strength and opportunity for glory and have complete and utter contempt for the weak. In a Samurai focused story a Samurai who acted like a Khorne follower would be a villain.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Closet Skeleton

[Lord_Caerolion]

Buddhism wasn't solely non-violent, Closet Skeleton. Just take a look at the Sohei, as well as the Shaolin. People just tend to associate the current common perception of them as the way they all are.

[Khornestar]

Certainly not an uninteresting topic, but please, let us refrain from discussing "real-life" religions on this forum. 

[Scribe]

I wasn't saying Khorne is based on Buddhist or Hindu teachings lol.

 

There is a trope within Khorne about the obliteration of the Self. That is something it has in common with religions from those areas of the world.

[Warsmith Annüss]

Honsou meets a champion of Khorne that doesn't fit the stereotypes of Khorne's followers, he's well spoken, intelligent and seemingly cunning. Then the blood flows.

AoS has introduced a few characters who go against the typical berserker stereotype.