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Deathwing Techmarines


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#1
Skywrath

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Is such a thing possible lore-wise? Trying a rather ambitious idea (converting one miniature to another chapter) and was wondering whether it would make sense. 

 

I believe a friend of mine mentioned the Dark Angels as a general rule are distrustful of the Techmarines because of their ties to Mars, on a thread I read a while back on this forum, but the question is this:

 

Seeing how the Master of the Forge sees everything, including the cells of the Fallen (except Cypher), then that would make him a member of the Inner Circle, right? Which technically implies Deathwing. Not to mention, would it be possible for injured Deathwing to actually serve as techmarines, when a dreadnought body cannot sustain them?


Edited by Skywrath, 01 June 2020 - 08:12 AM.


#2
twopounder

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Yes. DA used to even have rules for techmarines in TDA. Sadly, gw never made a model so the the rule was abandoned.

Edited by twopounder, 01 June 2020 - 09:00 AM.

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#3
Isual

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I dont think Techmarines can be initiated in the Deathwing as they have, like you already stated, close ties to Mars.

 

Regarding the maaster of the forge, the codex states explicitely that "Because of their allegiance to both the Chapter and the Adeptus Mechanicus, not Techmarines can join the Inner Circle, and this includes the Master of the Rock".

As they are hardwired with the rock from the moment of their designation to way after their death they can't really share any secrets they learn during office.

The last point is only my interpretation tbh.


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#4
Brother-Captain Gilead

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Yeah I can't see a techmarine ever making it to Deathwing and I think the lore is actually pretty explicit about it and also makes a point of the Dark Angels techmarines bearing that suspicion stoically and bearing no grudges against the other members of the chapter for viewing them with suspicion.

 

There is also a sideplot in the The story "Eye of Ezekiel" about this that I have hidden behind the spoiler tag:

 

Spoiler


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#5
Skywrath

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Thanks for all your responses - looks like the techmarine will be in greenwing colors.. what about Ravenwing Techmarines?



#6
Brother-Captain Gilead

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I personally painted my techmarines like I painted my librarians: red armor (blue for librarians) and then the chapter symbol on the right shoulder pad in the appropriate color and with the appropriate symbol. I might have broken the lore when it comes to Ravenwing though, since I don't think it has been explicitly stated that techmarines and librarians are actually part of the Ravenwing and not just driving a bike with them (whereas chaplains are mentioned as being assigned specifically to the Ravenwing (even though they don't get the sweet rules), so they would have that symbol on their shoulder I would assume).


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#7
Brother Tyler

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...they are also viewed with mistrust and suspicion by many among their own Chapter. The reason for this enmity is the dual loyalty of the Techmarines, who must be inducted into the Cult Mechanicus as part of their sojourn to Mars. Even those Dark Angels not invited to join the Inner Circle are insular and mistrustful of outside influences, meaning that, once a battle-brother has taken his first, fateful step on the path to becoming a Techmarine, he will forever stand apart from the majority of his brothers. This stigma is borne without complaint by the Techmarines, however, for they understand that their self-sacrifice is necessary to ensure the survival of the Chapter.

...

Because of his allegiance to both the Chapter and the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Master of the Rock is never allowed to join the Inner Circle.

The Techmarines support the wargear of the both the Deathwing and the Ravenwing, but are never members of either company. This has been explicit with regard to the Deathwing, but has only been implicit with regard to the Ravenwing. Techmarines could be included in Deathwing Command Squads in 3rd edition. I don't recall exactly when that changed because my older codices are in the garage somewhere, but it definitely changed by the time of 6th edition when the explicit lore I quoted above was published.
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#8
WrathOfTheLion

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No, if I remember correctly, techmarines are barred from advancement like that due to their ties to mars.

There should be none in the Ravenwing, I believe their equipment is maintained separately, but that may not be correct.

In the Lord of the First novel, the equipment of the 1st Legion is maintained by legionnaires trained by forgewrights from terra. So instead of techmarines, they had Ironwing folks to maintain equipment. This disconnect has remained.

Edited by WrathOfTheLion, 01 June 2020 - 11:16 AM.


#9
Brother Tyler

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In the Lord of the First novel, the equipment of the 1st Legion is maintained by legionnaires trained by forgewrights from terra. So instead of techmarines, they had Ironwing folks to maintain equipment. This disconnect has remained.


A lot of things have changed since the time of the Great Crusade. Is there any evidence for the situation you described (the forgewrights) remaining in the present day?

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#10
WrathOfTheLion

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In the Lord of the First novel, the equipment of the 1st Legion is maintained by legionnaires trained by forgewrights from terra. So instead of techmarines, they had Ironwing folks to maintain equipment. This disconnect has remained.


A lot of things have changed since the time of the Great Crusade. Is there any evidence for the situation you described (the forgewrights) remaining in the present day?

 

I meant the distrust/disconnect with Mars has likely remained, as that is probably set up for the contemporary lore.

I've seen no evidence that this still occurs, just that it's likely part of the reason for the distrust of techmarines.

I think I've read some stuff saying that the RW, etc. maintain some of their own equipment. Perhaps that is some vestige of it? That would just be entirely postulation though.

Given other pieces of lore like Interrogator-Chaplains being part of the Firewing and existing in the Great Crusade, I think with that novel and Book 9: Crusade, they're doing quite a bit to fill out some of the background of why some of these things are, or how they got to be that way.


Edited by WrathOfTheLion, 01 June 2020 - 12:26 PM.


#11
Skywrath

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Anyone else find it slightly contradicting how the Master of the Rock (by your own admission) is not a member of the Inner Circle, yet is wired up to the Rock and by that logic sees everything, including said cells? But of an oversight on GW's part, or am I missing something here?

 

Either way, guess I'm painting him green. Thank you for all your responses.



#12
Brother Tyler

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You're assuming that the Master of the Rock's connection to the Rock gives him a view of everything. Is there evidence that there are cameras/sensors that are tied in to the overall Rock structure? Don't you think it's possible that there might be either no cameras/sensors or that those might be separated from the main Rock network, specifically to prevent them from being witnessed by those that shouldn't know of them, such as the Master of the Rock? After all, the lore is pretty explicit that there are secrets within secrets, with each level of secrets being restricted to fewer and fewer members of the Chapter. The Supreme Grand Master was the only one to know of one of those secrets (Luther's incarceration), and even that august leader not privy to the Lion's situation. For such a system to be in place, there would have to be limitations, the most obvious being that all of those secrets that are kept from the Techmarines would be insulated from them in some way - physical and sensorial restriction being the most obvious of layers of insulation. The Master of the Rock (and the other Techmarines) can still monitor and maintain the arcane equipment, even that used for the dread purposes of the Deathwing and the Inner Circle, without being exposed to the secrets that that equipment supports.


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#13
Skywrath

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You're assuming that the Master of the Rock's connection to the Rock gives him a view of everything. Is there evidence that there are cameras/sensors that are tied in to the overall Rock structure? Don't you think it's possible that there might be either no cameras/sensors or that those might be separated from the main Rock network, specifically to prevent them from being witnessed by those that shouldn't know of them, such as the Master of the Rock? After all, the lore is pretty explicit that there are secrets within secrets, with each level of secrets being restricted to fewer and fewer members of the Chapter. The Supreme Grand Master was the only one to know of one of those secrets (Luther's incarceration), and even that august leader not privy to the Lion's situation. For such a system to be in place, there would have to be limitations, the most obvious being that all of those secrets that are kept from the Techmarines would be insulated from them in some way - physical and sensorial restriction being the most obvious of layers of insulation. The Master of the Rock (and the other Techmarines) can still monitor and maintain the arcane equipment, even that used for the dread purposes of the Deathwing and the Inner Circle, without being exposed to the secrets that that equipment supports.

 

I recall reading in one of the DA books (I forget which) that the aforementioned was always something on the Inner Circle's mind. While that in itself could be attributed to paranoia, in your own words, it's unlikely that the DA would leave such a loophole exposed. However that detail in itself, implies that there are still "blind spots" in the heirachy that said techmarine could exploit if he was so inclined. After-all, some Dark Angels (like the primaris in War of Secrets) have a particularly nasty habit of having their own agenda (and hence going behind the backs of the Inner Circle). Why fear something, that you have painstakingly tried to patch up. Not saying it's likely, but it is possible. As for your other concerns, I did state previously that I don't think the Master of the Rock knows about the existence of Luther, nor the Lion. 


Edited by Skywrath, 01 June 2020 - 01:07 PM.


#14
Brother-Captain Gilead

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...they are also viewed with mistrust and suspicion by many among their own Chapter. The reason for this enmity is the dual loyalty of the Techmarines, who must be inducted into the Cult Mechanicus as part of their sojourn to Mars. Even those Dark Angels not invited to join the Inner Circle are insular and mistrustful of outside influences, meaning that, once a battle-brother has taken his first, fateful step on the path to becoming a Techmarine, he will forever stand apart from the majority of his brothers. This stigma is borne without complaint by the Techmarines, however, for they understand that their self-sacrifice is necessary to ensure the survival of the Chapter.

...

Because of his allegiance to both the Chapter and the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Master of the Rock is never allowed to join the Inner Circle.

The Techmarines support the wargear of the both the Deathwing and the Ravenwing, but are never members of either company. This has been explicit with regard to the Deathwing, but has only been implicit with regard to the Ravenwing. Techmarines could be included in Deathwing Command Squads in 3rd edition. I don't recall exactly when that changed because my older codices are in the garage somewhere, but it definitely changed by the time of 6th edition when the explicit lore I quoted above was published.

 

 

I dug out my 4th edition codex and that one actually has no Deathwing Command squads (if you had Belial you could upgrade one terminator in a normal Deathwing terminator squad into a standard bearer with the Deathwing company banner), so that is the point that changed.


Edited by Brother-Captain Gilead, 01 June 2020 - 06:53 PM.

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#15
Brother_Darius

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Not probable, but possible.

 

While Techmarines do not "ride" with either of the 1st or 2nd companies, there are Tech marines that are assigned to the 1st and 2nd companies.  Or at least their have been in the past..  (I have played the DA on and off since 2nd edition and have all the codex's and the lore can adjust from edition to edition.)

 

While it is true the DA always have some suspicion with regarding to the Techmarines due to loyalty to Chapter vs Loyalty to Mars,  They certainly are not like the Int-Chaps in which every single one, just by the nature of what they do are in the Inner Circle.   I do believe on an individual basis the bias of Chapter v Mars, can be overcome.  It sure happens all the time in the Black Library stories.  One can prove themselves to be worthy.

 

So while you (at this edition) see a Tech Marine in TDA deploying with the Deathwing (big D).  I do believe it could happen a Techmarine could be in the Inner Circle (little d). 

 

Also a bit from older additions.  In some earlier additions you were only a member of the inner circle if you displayed the bone armor.  In other editions not every member of the Inner Circle announced it, by putting it on display.  Circles within Circles.


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#16
Sandalphon

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They definitely existed in 2nd ed.  - I have proof! However not sure how it would work gamewise anymore... it was a fun project, i have a ravenwing one somewhere too..

 

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outgunned, outnumbered - but never outclassed.

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#17
Berzul

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They definitely existed in 2nd ed.  - I have proof! However not sure how it would work gamewise anymore... it was a fun project, i have a ravenwing one somewhere too..

 

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I am shocked!

 

... SHOCKED!!!

 

Think we might get something like this, Primaris Style, down the line?


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#18
Skywrath

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Well it looks like the idea to paint my techmarine in deathwing colors is still a viable plan!

 

Berzul, we already do - I think they will update Techmarines to be primaris-fied, there are already primaris techmarines in the ranks of the Astartes. Iron Hand Feirros is an example of that.


Edited by Skywrath, 03 June 2020 - 02:14 PM.


#19
Berzul

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Yeah but only as a named character for one chapter. I am looking forward to general purpose techmarines


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#20
Sandalphon

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Found the techmarine too.. i made them both back in 2nd when game-legal as command squads (that didnt have models) but with the new bikes and 9th ed. who knows?

 

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it had custom exhausts using multa-melta nozzles and a servo-arm at the back... 


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