19 replies to this topic

[happyslugger]

Title says it all folks.

Could GW expand on the units available to Harlies in the future? Or are we meant to expand armies by bringing in craftworlds or DE?

Thoughts?

I should add the question is really driven by my desire to get a wraithknight lol

Edited by happyslugger, 02 June 2020 - 06:25 PM.

[Zebulon]

It seems to me that allied craftworlds/drukhari elements is the intention, yes.

I do have some Eldar from circa 5th edition that I ran out of inspiration/interest in that might find themselves a new role. I had given them a DIY name “Aiel-Fas” which if I remember it rightly was eldari for “Touching the Void”

If you want a wraithknight, do it! And if you want to convert and paint it up as Cegorath himself, better still!

[Axineton]

I’m sure they could but they probably won’t. I’d love more stuff in the harlequin range but without knowing too much about them I don’t know what else they’d be able to field. 

[Marshal Loss]

There were pretty reliable rumours that GW had intended another Harlequin wave a couple of years back but decided against it due to sales. It's definitely still possible, who knows what the future could tell. But they're a niche faction and aren't very easy to get into

[ThePenitentOne]

I saw a Harlequin wraith construct in WD- long time ago though; might have been a conversion. The old metal harlequin bikes had full canopy masks, and I think someone just kitbashed with one of those. It was a cool unit.

[BaronBanana]

Harlequin wraithlords were a thing in a supplement for the experimental codex by Gav Thorpe. Mimes and Master Mimes have been mentioned several times in the past which could easy just share the troupe box. The harlequin jetbikes and venoms are also in the Gav Thorpe codex, but they've been effectively replaced

Edited by BaronBanana, 03 June 2020 - 03:19 AM.

[Xisor]

I suppose - conceptually - the big question is what would work for them thematically? 

 

I guess something big is the attraction. We've seen with Warwalkers and Dreadknights and Hip-shooting Sneaky Dreadnought... all of that can work.

 

I'm not sure I've got the vision for it, but if they can keep it agile and dynamic enough - maybe a little like one of those shapeless sculpting mannequins that can be put in cool dance positions? - then I could totally see it being awesome. Somewhere between Wraithguard and Riptides in that sort of 'poseability' look. Not static, but easily reposed?

 

Harlequins who, with the unleashing of the Ynnari, think it's maybe absolutely the sort of time to let the Jokaero built them a... punchline? Who knows.

 

Not 'wraith' though, not made of dead in the Ynnari-style. Gotta be somehow Cegorach-y.

 

I could see that. Same with something maybe closer in style between the new Pteraxi, Swooping Hawks, Scourges and Hellions.

 

Hell, even parody things, like 'impersonations' of iconic things from other factions could work. Like stylised "Gunners" parodying Ork Lootas, or 'Farce Suits' joking around with Crisis visuals.

 

Again, my vision for it's not quite right, but I feel there's some room for some stuff in there.

 

And because it's Harlequins, having something bigger makes them a bit more appealing to general modellers.

 

Trying to paint diamonds on the damn players is a nightmare for hamfisted goons like me.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I'm sure Jes Goodwin has some ideas of what could be added to the Harlequins. Not really sure what they could do, myself.

 

...Actually, I've got it. They have all their stuff based on mythology and essentially what is interpretive dance, right? So, building on the idea of them having "parody" things, what if they had an actual Deus Ex Machina, in the original sense? A Harlequin-esque Avatar of sorts, able to be outfitted by the Masque to portray whatever mythic deity is required?

 

Failing that, building on the "stage role" ideas, what if they had an artillery unit of "stagehands", with artillery capable of reshaping the landscape as they see fit, able to hurt enemies but also remove, or maybe even create, cover?

[BaronBanana]

A vehicle squadron like hornets could fit in quite nicely. Reintroduction of Mimes as novice troupe players with maybe two attacks and limited access to weapons. A ravager like vehicle would be pretty cool if made more harlequin aesthetically. The hardest two slots to fill out would be fast attack and elites.

[Dread]

That's funny. I replied to this but it didn't post.

Way back in the years of old, I had a big harli army. Mimes were in it as well as harli wraithlords. They were fantastic. Troop masters were in the squads rather than an hq. Venoms were transports, never had a model, mine were vypers I converted. Now we have starweavers, thank goodness. I'm trying to remember if there was a HQ slot for the great Harlequin, I kinda remember using an Avatar as a proxy. Wraithlord could have a D-cannon which back then was great. I feel like I'm forgetting another infantry choice but can't quite remember.

I would love to see a great Harli model and rules, not a CP card. A wraithlord with flip belt, ah.

The current army is good as is so I'm happy.

[Troubadour]

There is a lot of stuff that could be added to the army list without overpowering it. The limitation is making it fit the theme.

I'd love to see a lot of additional models of different shapes and sizes, giving harlie attacks the oomph they so sorely lack.

Some big models/vehicles would attract more new players. But it's hard to find anything that will fit through the webway and/or isn't "too dead".

What I would settle for, though, is adding more flexibility to the ranks. How about making Harlie troupes a bit more "cirque du soleil"?

Being careful not to come over too silly, how about different/quirky troupe types?

Clowns on stilts? Slower movement, but longer projectile range.

Jugglers. Firebreathers/poi dancers. As many freaky/misfit entertainer archetypes that battle bonuses can be dreamed up for...

Maybe a larger vehicle, but that doesn't fulfill the traditional role of a tank - instead doing something more entertainment/dance related? Maybe a portable/temporary stage that gives some kind of bonus?

HQ/Elite unit taking role of "choreographer" (better name needed). Spurs troupe to faster/flashier dancing and so gives bonuses to units within range.

[Xenith]

I think there's plenty of scope based on the old model range and sanctioned conversions:

 

A Great Harlequin, overall commander of several troupes

High Avatar - the one who plays Cegorach in the dances?

Warlocks - lower level psykers/buffing characters

Harlequin Jetbikes - single pilot bikes

Harlequin Dreadnoughts - i.e. Wraithlords.

 

There's also conceptual space for different ranks of harlequin, like mimes and players, but I feel these would be better suited to unit upgrades, like Trueborn. 

 

Beyond that, a logical step in the current setting is a physical Avatar of the Laughing God. We already have Khaine and Ynnead, why not Cegorach? 

[Karhedron]

There were pretty reliable rumours that GW had intended another Harlequin wave a couple of years back but decided against it due to sales. It's definitely still possible, who knows what the future could tell. But they're a niche faction and aren't very easy to get into

I heard the same. Admech were released around the same time and recently got a second wave.

[Jolemai]

Great Harlequin never had a (new) model.
Avatar of Cegorach?

[The Blood Raven]

I'm down with Xenith when it comes to model opportunities. I'm not convinced wraith constructs fit the theme anymore, but the nostalgia is there. Maybe the ghost assassins could return  ? I believe a single model bike is largely redundant.

 

Maybe there's an option to create a new player/model that emulates a specific hero, villain, or god role. Other than more infantry, I"m fairly happy with what they have now.

[Brother Tyler]

Incorporating a new "Avatar of Cegorach" would require a revision to the lore. The Asuryani Avatar of Khaela Mensha Khaine is a fragment of the true god, that god being destroyed and his essence being scattered across the craftworlds. The avatar of Ynnead, meanwhile, remains nascent, Ynnead not fully manifesting within the material realm yet. Cegorach, meanwhile, is said to have survived the fall of the Aeldari and to have escaped into the webway. There is lore about how Cegorach will take on the guise of a member of a Harlequin troupe, and this lore is represented in the Great Harlequin stratagem. Creating a separate model for Cegorach would contravene that lore.
 
There were actually numerous conversions of Harlequin Wraithlords (and other Ghost Warriors) over the years. During 1st edition, Harlequins could also take other robots and vehicles, including those of the Imperium. The problem we have now is that the lore for the Harlequins has changed. Where Aeldari Ghost Warriors are created by taking a spiritstone and having the spirit of a long dead Aeldari warrior provide the animus, the Harlequins don't use spirit stones. If GW were to introduce some sort of Harlequin Ghost Warrior, they would have to account for the Harlequins no longer using spirit stones (there are ways to do this without being ham-fisted).
 
All that said, I loved the old Harlequin Wraithlord conversions and would certainly enjoy seeing that concept incorporated into the sub-faction if for no other reason than to see modern versions.
 
The 1st edition Harlequins pre-dated the craftworlds as we now know them and many of the original names for members of a Harlequin troupe were appropriated by the Asuryani, those original names being replaced.

• The High Avatar became the Troupe Master so that the Avatar name could be used for the Avatar of Khaine.
• The High Warlock became the Shadowseer so that the Warlock name could become the battle psykers.
• The Warlock was merged into the regular Harlequin Troupe members (see the Warlock usage above).

Personally, while there are certain elements of modern performance art as clear inspirations for the Harlequins, I don't want them to become too much like modern performing arts. That would lower them to the level of parody.
 
Personally, I like the concept of the Harlequins as small and nimble, a force you use to augment a larger Aeldari force. I feel the same way about the Adeptus Custodes, too, but GW has allowed them to become a full army instead of just being an add-on to an Imperium army, so I wouldn't be surprised if GW ever decides to expand the Harlequin model options to allow for a viable whole army concept. I'll be disappointed, but not surprised.
 
With regard to Harlequins representing specific roles, we already have that to a degree in the current units. Perhaps an expanded range of stratagems might fulfill this concept (and save Harlequin players from having to buy different models).
 
What would be interesting would be some character models, special Troupe Masters and perhaps some other characters that might be unique to each of the Masques.

[Brother Tyler]

I went through my copies of the Citadel Journal to find some pictures of Harlequin Wraithlords (or "Harlequin Dreadnoughts" as they were called). I know that some pictures appeared in back issues of White Dwarf Magazine, but I don't have them any more.

The first image appeared in Citadel Journal #39, the issue in which the 3rd edition experimental rules for the Harlequins were first published.
 

The army list didn't include a dreadnought/wraithlord, however. That was addressed in Citadel Journal #40, the answer provided by Gav Thorpe, the author of the rules:
 

A number of people asked to include Mimes, Master Mimes, Wraithlords and other troop types.

This Harlequin list is a work in progress version of a list we'd like to publish in the future, together with new miniatures. The miniatures range we have planned at the moment is limited to the units given in this list, although if that does change I'll let you know! Addressing Wraithlords in particular, my background on the Harlequins means that they no longer need to use spirit stones, and therefore they would not have Wraithlords in their army.

Despite that feedback, an update to the Harlequins rules was published in Citadel Journal #40 and it included rules for a Harlequin Wraithlord. The picture they showed was another conversion, shown below.
 

Both conversions use the 1st edition Harlequin jetbike canopy for the main body/face.

The older images of Harlequin Wraithlord conversions, unlike the two shown above, often included the diamond patterns and creative posing.

[The Blood Raven]

Don't make me ask for a confiscated land raider with motley and banners ala the illustrations from their introduction. 

[Troubadour]

Problem is, Harlies aren't gonna get any love until sales improve. Sales are unlikely to improve while the vast majority of the army list consists of standard size models and very samey looking vehicles.

People like to have choice and some cool models to field. Harlies don't have so much of that at the moment - which leaves them languishing and mostly ignored.

A little narrative-friendly variation, model-wise would go a long way to improving harlie popularity.

[The Blood Raven]

I think the biggest issue with adopting them is the expectation that every model must be painstakingly painted with motley. Their apparent tabletop strength might lead to more bandwagon behavior if more people thought all it took was 3 contrast colors.

I enjoy playing this army so much more than my Thousand Sons which has about as many faction specific units.