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Implications of 9th for Drukhari


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#1
ThePenitentOne

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I play a fair number of armies, but I figure Drukhari is one of the nonconventional builds due to the Raiding Force rules. 

 

So I've been watching 9th rules through a Drukhari lens more than any of the other armies I play. Today gave me a shudder due to the detachment limit based on game size. So that's kinda what I'm going to throw in first.

 

At Strike Force Level (2K), we're allowed 3 detachments; if all three are patrols, we can have all three aspects of the army represented. Since Patrol is a Core Detachment, and one of our 3 patrols will contain our warlord, meaning we only pay for two of the three. We have been told that the raiding force special rule will still apply, meaning we would ALSO get 4 CP, because it is related to our special ability, rather than the shared detachment rules.

 

We do not know what a Patrol detachment costs. If a Battalion costs 3 CP, patrol will be less. If it costs 2, our +4 bonus offsets the cost of the additional two detachments so we break even. If Patrols only cost one, we actually GAIN +2CP!

 

However, this news also contains some downsides.

 

At Combat Patrol (500) we only get 1 detachment and at Incursion (1k) we get 2. So at 500, play 1/3 of our army. At 1k, play 2/3.

 

And even at 2k, though it's the "sweet spot," it is still problematic if you want more than 2 elites, fast attack or heavy choices that are specifically <Coven>, <Cult> or <Kabal> key words. Want 3 Talos? Well, that means you either exclude your Cult Detachment or your Kabal Detachment in order to take an extra Coven Patrol for that third Talos. You'll still qualify for the +4 CP bonus, so you'll still get the full 12 CP, but one third of your army is missing.

 

If they solve the problem by decoupling obsessions to detachments, and just say "All <Coven> units get the <Coven> Obsession regardless of which detachment they are in," that's okay. But if they try and fixing it by making each of our subfactions pick from one list, I'm not going to be happy.

 

And finally, on a minimum sized Combat Patrol table, Red Grief Reavers can hit anywhere on the board. A big unit of Reavers that just goes in and out of LOS blocking cover using Fly-by Attack every turn- you might be able to keep them hidden the entire game. 

 

Anyway, what aspects of 9th have you seen so far that may have a huge impact on us?



#2
WarriorFish

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Someone mentioned that DE would get rules around the Detachment thing, so given that's how the current rules work I'm expecting something similar. I've not had the time to properly keep up on the latest and greatest but I'm liking what I've heard so far, though there is still a lot more to come I imagine.

 

The point increase is something that gives me pause, so long as the squishier units don't need numbers to survive it'll be fine. With the terrain rules as part of this answer I think we'll be ok. Plus if terrain can do more to reduce the effectiveness of shooting that would help DE out a lot, as an army that generally wants to close in.

 

It feels like 9th is going to be good for the game so I'm keen to find out more, I would like it if we got a bit more rather than what feels like a bit of a drip feed. Aside from dragging it out it also makes it a little harder to keep up with.


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#3
Lord_Caerolion

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To be honest, I'm kinda hoping that we might even get something like the "Alliance of Agony" changed to being a permanent thing, where you can select an Archon, Succubus, and Haemonculus, and all count as the Warlord for the purpose of returning CPs for their detachment. Don't just limit it to Patrols.


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#4
ThePenitentOne

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Changes to fliers could be good for us- strafing runs are intriguing. 

 

Blast weapons make me want to mechanize even more.



#5
WarriorFish

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The Blast rule is looking good, I was a bit concerned when we first heard it said that it was on 10+ where I thought it made more sense to be 11+... turns out GW agrees tongue.png I don't think large DE squads are common by any stretch not least when you consider most need a transport so it'll not be a major concern for 6-10 model units I don't think.

 

I am wondering about the removal of the to hit penalty for vehicles (and monsters) moving. This is a good change and helps the game be more mobile but this gives us the question of what do the former "fast" type vehicles get? If all ignore movement penalties for moving what represents the faster vehicles, if anything?

 

It seems we have as many questions as answers sometimes, but the full picture isn't too far away at least and we can piece together the puzzle as we go msn-wink.gif


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#6
Lord_Caerolion

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Can shoot Heavy weapons after Advancing? 


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#7
GrinNfool

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The Blast rule is looking good, I was a bit concerned when we first heard it said that it was on 10+ where I thought it made more sense to be 11+... turns out GW agrees tongue.png I don't think large DE squads are common by any stretch not least when you consider most need a transport so it'll not be a major concern for 6-10 model units I don't think.

 

I am wondering about the removal of the to hit penalty for vehicles (and monsters) moving. This is a good change and helps the game be more mobile but this gives us the question of what do the former "fast" type vehicles get? If all ignore movement penalties for moving what represents the faster vehicles, if anything?

 

It seems we have as many questions as answers sometimes, but the full picture isn't too far away at least and we can piece together the puzzle as we go msn-wink.gif

Agree a bit with the, everything moving and shooting with no penalty kind of infringing on our armies identity.  If a razorback can move and shoot while enjoying t7 3+ what separates our raiders/ravagers etc for our t5/6 4+ profile?  Fly isn't enough justification either now that vehicles can shoot after being bumped.  Hopefully that has been considered and there is some selling point here, just curious what that might end up being.



#8
WarriorFish

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As DE Heavy weapons become Assault rules wise on vehicles it doesn't mean that much, until we hear otherwise we should presume that Assault weapons may still shoot after advancing but with a -1 penalty to hit. This means for DE vehicles nothing has changed.

 

I think everyone can agree that this is a specific rules answer in that DE vehicles are fast so shouldn't suffer any penalty for being so. If Fly works in the same way for withdrawing from combat and shooting then this is still a nice boon, but once again just means nothing has directly changed for DE vehicles - only indirectly as other vehicles (and monsters) can be more mobile too.

 

I can't think of a good addition to help give faster vehicles a suitable bonus over others, short of further enhanced movement but this feels a bit lacklustre especially with table size being reduced. What would be really nice is an increase to survivability to represent it being difficult to hit or pinpoint weak points. Given we've been told that DE will get adjustment to accommodate the Raiding style build and structure of the code it seems prudent to assume this will be one of the other things factored in :)

 

The drip feed won't go on forever, even if it requires the rules to be in our hands (and FAQs) we'll get the answers eventually! :P


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#9
TrawlingCleaner

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Thinking about the codex, is there really that much that'll get blast? Grenades and missiles on the jets are the only two I can think of.

My assumption is that for flying vehicles they won't be targetable for the "hit the unit that's retreating from combat" strat that they showed off for the core rules. I could be entirely wrong as flying vehicles (especially ours) are already very strong.

We'll see what happens I guess, between not having played in 4 months, a new edition and not playing dark eldar in about 2 and a half years, I'll have to relearn how to play this codex!

#10
WarriorFish

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No, there's not many Blast candidates for Dark Eldar so it's more of an "other side of the table" consideration :)

 

I think everyone will be in the same boat for relearning the game (lockdown aside) so at least there's an even playing field there :P


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#11
Lord_Caerolion

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I think the best thing, actually, would just be to make our vehicles faster. We're supposed to trade protection for speed, and yet the Craftworlders have faster, better protected vehicles.


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#12
Medjugorje

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Except terrain rules there is nothing very good for us. "Fly" was on of our strongest keyword to staying save from being shot. Blast weapons will be working very well - against us^^. And because in 8th editon we dont had the problem for getting CPs its not a bonus anyway. And no possibiltiy for -2 to hit again is bad for us. The only thing which help us a lot --> Talos and Chronos lists.

 

What I expect is a new codex and I think we are one of the first armies who get a new book. If not, our point costs wont be increase like other models did. The first PA book completly was about each Eldar fraction.

 

EDIT:

 

overwatch is gone now. (For Black Heart armies there is no overwatch anymore^^).


Edited by Medjugorje, 17 June 2020 - 03:01 PM.


#13
ThePenitentOne

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Changes to overwatch are good for wych cults.



#14
WarriorFish

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Yes, this will make a huge difference for Wyches getting into combat. Or at least all but one squad tongue.png I don't think it'll be changing the core build in scooting around in transports before the charge, but not getting shot to pieces on the way in makes Wyches one of the biggest winners smile.png

 

Good job I got that second squad of Wyches then ;)


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#15
Lord_Caerolion

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And as I've seen pointed out, if Overwatch is now a Stratagem, what stylish race do we know that has a way of negating Stratagem use?


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#16
ThePenitentOne

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It's so expensive though. 4CP for something that has a 16.6% chance to utterly fail is not a gamble that I'm ever willing take... I mean, unless it's an absolutel game changing moment.


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#17
Lord_Caerolion

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Definitely. It's not something to throw out on every charge, but when we've got one that's absolutely vital, it's an amazing tool.


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#18
Lord_Ikka

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The change to Overwatch will definitely help out Drukhari (and Harlequins for me personally, as I run both together). Wych cults, Mandrakes, and Incubi benefit from this a lot, so we should be seeing more of them on the table, which will be nice.


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#19
Karhedron

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Taloi with mixed loadouts look more appealing now (and they weren't too shabby to start with). Shooting on the way in and continuing to shoot in melee whilst still dishing out decent close combat attacks looks tasty.


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#20
Lord_Caerolion

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Given my Kabal loves using fear-toxins, I'm hoping that the (admittedly sub-par) custom Kabal trait that messes with Leadership affects all rolls for models running away, not just the initial Morale test.


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#21
GrinNfool

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So via todays tau article apparently fly no longer lets you fall back and shoot.  I'm getting pretty concerned for DE at this point, between all vehicles being able to shoot in combat, and fly not letting you fall back and shoot, I am struggling to figure out why we are paying a premium for t5/6 vehicles that with current information have almost no upside for a massive downside.  Still more to come obviously, but there better be something significant for DE or its going to be another rough edition for us after the fun of 8th.



#22
WarriorFish

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Yes, this is a significant change with larger implications for DE. A fair bit will change for DE vehicles in 9th so I expect adjustments to accommodate, though could be anyone's guess. Even if it is a points adjustment that would work, though I think I'd prefer that DE vehicles had something a bit special rather than just got cheaper to reflect their fragile nature. We'll see as always, will be good to find out what the DE focus article has to say.


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#23
ThePenitentOne

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Given my Kabal loves using fear-toxins, I'm hoping that the (admittedly sub-par) custom Kabal trait that messes with Leadership affects all rolls for models running away, not just the initial Morale test.

 

Yeah, given our affinity with fear and terror, we really should be the kings and queens of maximum attrition.



#24
WarriorFish

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Faction focus is up on Warhammer Community, raiding force is the same at its core:

 

z4P1qG7gBTj8iB71.jpg

 

Not the most exciting thing in the world, given it was expected that the rule would be replicated but this develops it nicely - looking forward to getting my Patrols in! All the more so as my new DE models have arrived today tongue.png


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#25
ThePenitentOne

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I like the raiding force rule, and always have, but there were problems with it in 8th and there are problems with it in 9th too.

 

In 8th, they screwed up raiding force when they increased the CP reward for Brigades and Battalions. In 9th, the detachment limits on game size prevent us from using it in games of less than 1500 points, and we can never use the 6 patrol variant.

 

Assuming, of course, they don't grant us an exception, and you never know- they might.






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