Lysander vs Honsou post-Rift Novel Idea?

[Moonreaper666]

The BL writers are slowly bringing up their characters to the current timeline. What better way to bring a lot of memorable characters to M42 than to have a VS novel similar to Eisenhorn vs Ravenor

 

After getting his company and the Legion of the Damned decimated by Chaos Daemons (this did happen in lore) on an unknown planet, Lysander gets Primaris reinforcement. The entire Imperial Fists Chapter is called to defend Inwit from the hands of Warsmith Honsou, who has became a Rubicon Primaris and has Chaos Primaris Marines!

 

The main selling point of the book is that named characters on both sides will die! The IF Chapter Master and Soltarn Vull Bronn being two examples. Also character development for Lysander as Shon'tu is dead and he doesn't know what to do with his rage against a dead person

 

It would be great to have Honsou back, promoted by Perturabo and having his massive warband augmented by the Skulls Harvest again!

 

If this novel sells well then other VS novels might be made. Chosen Dark Apostle Marduk (Enhanced by the Dark Gods to counter Primaris) vs Primaris Uriel Ventress!

[rookie40K]

I’d buy it! I was hoping for a novel that focused on Calgar vs that Haarkan world Claimer dude (awesome model), but it never really happened. I just want more books that focus on characters with models. I never understood why they rarely do it.

 

Great idea to have Honsou and Lysander go at it leading to the rubicon. I think a lot of people would be happy with that.

[DarkChaplain]

I'd rather see Honsou tinkering with the Heraclitus strain to bulk up the gene-seed he conquered, than just happen to get his hands (including the living metal one) on Primaris gene-seed.

 

Instead, I'd like to see a final confrontation between Darnath Lysander and Warsmith Shon'tu. The two go way back, even if the studio fluff seems to have replaced him on the Endeavour of Will (which had a novella before) with some other Iron Warriors dude iirc. He threatened Inwit at the tail end of 999.M41, even. On that note, I find it strange that not a single author has bothered to even just namedrop him in the Siege, despite IW focus, considering he was actually there.

 

Besides, I believe Honsou will have a hard time popping up in non-McNeill stories. For better or worse, Counter seems to have dibs on Lysander (Endeavour of Will, Malodrax, Seventh Retribution and shorts), and it was *extremely* surprising just to have Uriel Ventris appearing in Dark Imperium by Haley.

At this point, I find it more likely that they'll be introducing a new Warsmith with a cheesy name like Metal-Skull Hammerlot the Ironbeater to coincide with a model release than feature an old, author-invented character like Honsou in a new major novel by somebody else.

[Moonreaper666]

I'd rather see Honsou tinkering with the Heraclitus strain to bulk up the gene-seed he conquered, than just happen to get his hands (including the living metal one) on Primaris gene-seed.

 

Instead, I'd like to see a final confrontation between Darnath Lysander and Warsmith Shon'tu. The two go way back, even if the studio fluff seems to have replaced him on the Endeavour of Will (which had a novella before) with some other Iron Warriors dude iirc. He threatened Inwit at the tail end of 999.M41, even. On that note, I find it strange that not a single author has bothered to even just namedrop him in the Siege, despite IW focus, considering he was actually there.

 

Besides, I believe Honsou will have a hard time popping up in non-McNeill stories. For better or worse, Counter seems to have dibs on Lysander (Endeavour of Will, Malodrax, Seventh Retribution and shorts), and it was *extremely* surprising just to have Uriel Ventris appearing in Dark Imperium by Haley.

At this point, I find it more likely that they'll be introducing a new Warsmith with a cheesy name like Metal-Skull Hammerlot the Ironbeater to coincide with a model release than feature an old, author-invented character like Honsou in a new major novel by somebody else.

Shon'tu is dead, killed by the Imperial Fists and Legion of the Damned when he and Be'lakor attacked the Phalanx

[DarkChaplain]

Did they really just off him via some rando terminator sergeant in a campaign supplement? Lame.

[Moonreaper666]

Did they really just off him via some rando terminator sergeant in a campaign supplement? Lame.

Honsou would make a better archnemesis to Lysander, less delusional and more brains than Shon'tu. Post-Rift, Honsou is much more powerful and more connected to his Legion

 

Marduk and Uriel Ventriss need a novel post-Rift. Uriel is a Rubicon Primaris refilling his company with fresh Primaris recruits while Marduk's Host has grown in number with hundreds more Chosen veterans

[Lucerne]

Honsou suffers from author's pet syndrome, when he's basically TV Series Ramsay Snow and frankly is nowhere near as competent and relevant as he and the writer think they are.

 

I'd rather someone not McNeil write a definitive Iron Warriors in 40k book like the ones we got for Death Guard and Night Lords.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Lucerne

[Moonreaper666]

Honsou suffers from author's pet syndrome, when he's basically TV Series Ramsay Snow and frankly is nowhere near as competent and relevant as he and the writer think they are.

 

I'd rather someone not McNeil write a definitive Iron Warriors in 40k book like the ones we got for Death Guard and Night Lords.

Honsou's ramshackle force ravage Ultramar, the Ultramarines and the Ultramar Navy

 

I think the only chance is a new author. Honsou is a much different character than Shon'tu and would be a very deadly opponent to Lysander

[DarkChaplain]

Out of curiosity: Have you read McNeill's Ultramarines and Iron Warriors novels, or are you going off on wiki descriptions? Because damn, Honsou definitely fits the author's pet thing.

[Lucerne]

 

Honsou suffers from author's pet syndrome, when he's basically TV Series Ramsay Snow and frankly is nowhere near as competent and relevant as he and the writer think they are.

 

I'd rather someone not McNeil write a definitive Iron Warriors in 40k book like the ones we got for Death Guard and Night Lords.

Honsou's ramshackle force ravage Ultramar, the Ultramarines and the Ultramar Navy

 

I think the only chance is a new author. Honsou is a much different character than Shon'tu and would be a very deadly opponent to Lysander

 

Honsou had nothing to do with that other than being an irrelevant bystander to his own army.

 

Honsou is a speedbump that honestly should die in a novel written by someone not McNeil.

[rookie40K]

Honsou still has a Necron bionic arm doesn’t he?

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

Honsou suffers from author's pet syndrome, when he's basically TV Series Ramsay Snow and frankly is nowhere near as competent and relevant as he and the writer think they are.

 

I'd rather someone not McNeil write a definitive Iron Warriors in 40k book like the ones we got for Death Guard and Night Lords.

Honsou's ramshackle force ravage Ultramar, the Ultramarines and the Ultramar Navy

 

I think the only chance is a new author. Honsou is a much different character than Shon'tu and would be a very deadly opponent to Lysander

I mean, technically ya his cobbled together hos did work. But in reality, he basically had a plot device solving all the problems for him in the form of the newborn. And then he gets a crazy starfort and unlimited daemons to help. It's not like he forged a cohesive army out of the different elements and then waged a successful war in hostile territory.

[Tarvek Val]

 

 

It's not like he forged a cohesive army out of the different elements and then waged a successful war in hostile territory.

 

To be fair, he did succeed in drawing together an army out of nearly nothing, which is a feat that not many warlords in the 40k universe have managed. Most characters seem to ascend to a command rank in an already existing institution (Imperial Guard / Navy / Astartes) or faction (Chaos warband, eldar craftworld, etc.). That, or a character will assume command in a Moment of Peril where 'only they can save the day,' such as Creed or Yarrick. 

 

Although Honshu's invasion may not have gone well, one could reasonably attribute that as much to the plot armor of McNeil's Ultramarines as any incompetence on Honshu's behalf. I mean, c'mon... a literal ghost and the Legion of the Damned show up out of nowhere with the sole purpose of ruining Honshu's day. 

[Lucerne]

 

 

 

It's not like he forged a cohesive army out of the different elements and then waged a successful war in hostile territory.

 

To be fair, he did succeed in drawing together an army out of nearly nothing, which is a feat that not many warlords in the 40k universe have managed. Most characters seem to ascend to a command rank in an already existing institution (Imperial Guard / Navy / Astartes) or faction (Chaos warband, eldar craftworld, etc.). That, or a character will assume command in a Moment of Peril where 'only they can save the day,' such as Creed or Yarrick. 

 

Although Honshu's invasion may not have gone well, one could reasonably attribute that as much to the plot armor of McNeil's Ultramarines as any incompetence on Honshu's behalf. I mean, c'mon... a literal ghost and the Legion of the Damned show up out of nowhere with the sole purpose of ruining Honshu's day. 

 

...He was gifted Huron's leftovers and then M'kar did the heavy lifting.

[MegaVolt87]

Anthony Reynolds Dark Creed arc with WB's is far superior to McNiels IW arc. I want a recton with Forrix still around.

[Roomsky]

Was Forrix not created by Mcneill to die in his debut novel? Far as I can tell, everything about the character was created to retroactively set up Storm of Iron.

 

In either case, while I agree someone besides Mcneill would be ideal to bring the 4^th into new focus, we don’t need yet another Heresy-era captain leading that charge. Storm of Iron essentially shares the entire Heresy-era cast anyway, let’s get some new blood going. If any traitor legions are going to allow ascension by merit, the Iron Warriors are among them. Honsou’s fine for a cameo, but assassinating other author’s characters as an aside is usually a bad look.

 

Fingers crossed for French once he finishes writing Abomination.

[Noserenda]

Urgh yeah its one of the biggest problems with the Iron Warriors during the Heresy, nearly every character who isnt a "one scene then dead" type is from McNeils 40k books and the majority of them are their 40k incarnations at the end of every book. They really need a new author to come in and shake things up a bit.

[MegaVolt87]

Was Forrix not created by Mcneill to die in his debut novel? Far as I can tell, everything about the character was created to retroactively set up Storm of Iron.

 

In either case, while I agree someone besides Mcneill would be ideal to bring the 4^th into new focus, we don’t need yet another Heresy-era captain leading that charge. Storm of Iron essentially shares the entire Heresy-era cast anyway, let’s get some new blood going. If any traitor legions are going to allow ascension by merit, the Iron Warriors are among them. Honsou’s fine for a cameo, but assassinating other author’s characters as an aside is usually a bad look.

 

Fingers crossed for French once he finishes writing Abomination.

Every Legion needs a few HH era personalities still kicking around IMO, it's worse, as I was always in the minority who liked Forrix, even back in the day. It's hard, especially when he has decent build up in HH- but then we get stuck with that moron Golog instead rules wise. Golog/ Honsou is our Straviok, change my mind.

[DarkChaplain]

Was Forrix not created by Mcneill to die in his debut novel? Far as I can tell, everything about the character was created to retroactively set up Storm of Iron.

 

In either case, while I agree someone besides Mcneill would be ideal to bring the 4^th into new focus, we don’t need yet another Heresy-era captain leading that charge. Storm of Iron essentially shares the entire Heresy-era cast anyway, let’s get some new blood going. If any traitor legions are going to allow ascension by merit, the Iron Warriors are among them. Honsou’s fine for a cameo, but assassinating other author’s characters as an aside is usually a bad look.

 

Fingers crossed for French once he finishes writing Abomination.

 

I believe that Forrix was part of the card game, at least his artwork was featured in the Visions books. I'm not entirely sure whether the card game predates Storm of Iron, though.

 

I'm honestly not bothered by Forrix, as first captain equivalent, being featured in most IW books from the Heresy. He *was* at the top. What irks me more is that McNeill had to squeeze basically the entire cast of Storm of Iron - and Dead Sky, Black Sun! - into Angel Exterminatus, without even bothering with other characters that *don't* have a major role in the future.

 

Going through the Dramatis Personae of AE:

 

Forrix: Storm of Iron

Obax Zakayo: Dead Sky, Black Sun, The Chapter's Due

Berossus: Dead Sky, Black Sun

Kroeger: Storm of Iron

Soltarn Vull Bronn: The Iron Without

Barban Falk: Storm of Iron

"Honourable" Soulaka: Storm of Iron, Dead Sky via Honsou

Toramino: Dead Sky, Storm of Iron

Cadaras Grendel: Dead Sky, Skull Harvest, Iron Warriors, The Chapter's Due

 

This leaves only Galian Carron and Harkor as Angel Exterminatus exclusive Iron Warriors. And both, I believe, were wrapped up in that novel. With AE being THE HH Iron Warriors novel for the longest time, this left nothing but preexisting 40k-fated characters for the Legion. Instead of seeding characters for the wider series project, McNeill failed to think beyond his own works.

 

It's a pretty common thing for him, I'd say. He tries to knit his works together through shared characters (as seen in The Crimson King, Vengeful Spirit etc), but he also clings heavily to those characters and neglects originals or those of other authors. And while he did include a cameo for one of French's Thousand Sons, he also failed to make The Crimson King work with Ahriman: Unchanged. I'd go so far as to claim that McNeill's works feel extremely isolated from the rest of the franchise, despite working with a lot of big players.

 

Honestly, I'd be cool with Werner writing another Iron Warriors novel at some point. I liked The Siege of Castellax a good deal. It highlighted the stubborn, wasteful efficiency of the Iron Warriors pretty well. They were brutal, inhuman and barely even anti-heroes.

[Noserenda]

Yup you've hit the nail on the head there DarkChaplain and it badly robs some of the HH books of any tension when you know half the cast cant die and the one or two outliers are probably doomed. 

It also rubs me the wrong way that the whole Trident sticks together for 10k years despite all hating each other and being powerful figures in their own right who should have split off and formed their own warbands.

[Lucerne]

Forrix would be great if he didn't die in futility and as a footnote and without McNeil setting up any other IW characters when given the chance.

[b1soul]

How does one define "authour's pet"?

[Lucerne]

How does one define "authour's pet"?

Excessive focus even for a main character, too many coincidences going their way, favoritism in terms of the outcomes of situations they're in, the narration/other characters doing nothing but talk about how special they are, them having out of setting knowledge when they shouldn't, warping the plot around them in ways that strain plausibility, them having "special" traits in excess of what would be expected, often with a very one dimensional or superficial personality...

 

Sharrowsue is another example, also by McNeil, but without Honsou's redeeming qualities.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Lucerne

[Moonreaper666]

 

 

How does one define "authour's pet"?

Excessive focus even for a main character, too many coincidences going their way, favoritism in terms of the outcomes of situations they're in, the narration/other characters doing nothing but talk about how special they are, them having out of setting knowledge when they shouldn't, warping the plot around them in ways that strain plausibility, them having "special" traits in excess of what would be expected, often with a very one dimensional or superficial personality...

 

Sharrowsue is another example, also by McNeil, but without Honsou's redeeming qualities.

I thought Sharrowkyn and the entire Sisypheum crew died stealing the Primaris formula from Traitor-occupied Luna?

 

Sharrowkyn was saved twice by Magnus and that wasn't Plot Armor or Author's pet

 

With Shon'tu dead there really isn't anybody else in the IW Legion that can be Lysander's new archnemesis

 

I think Decimus would make a great archnemesis to Kayvaan Shrike

 

Drazhar/Arha vs Khârn novel?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Pretty sure sharrowkyn is the definition of authors pet.