Can terminators make a comeback?

[CCE1981]

The problem with Terminators is their cost. For a basic 5-man squad of Terminators you get about 2x 5-man Intercessor squads, or 3x 5-man Tactical squads. You lose out on board threat mobility, wounds, everything that really matters for them. Knock the comparative price point down to 2x 5-man Tactical Squads or 1.5x 5-man Intercessor squads and your talking. Look at Agressors, and they are at the level I’m referring to, that 3-man squad is 15 wounds assuming the squad moved the same number of shots, and still has power fists. Look at Choas and Space Wolf terminators, again you can cut their points down to closer to the level I am pushing to.

[Dracos]

Thunder Hammer cost for Sergeants and Assault Termies isn’t bad. Not cheap but if rumors be true it’s going to be a target rich environment. I happily await the whining about how Terminator weapons are too cheap compared to the damage they do to “my poor knight/baneblade/carnifex :)

 

Still think Big Model syndrome will be less than currently anticipated. Although at 20 freaking points an Intercessor maybe not. Ouch

[Medjugorje]

the main thing Terminators should have is a 1+ Save ( roll of 1 always fail ) or even a wound more.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Make a separate topic if you want to discuss that.

[Captain Idaho]

I think teleporting Terminators in 9th will be a hard unit to attack and kill with correct terrain. Especially with some Vanguard Veterans jumping up the table. You just can't kill them all unless you can see them.

 

Who knows, maybe we'll see armies taking credible assault units and close combat weapons on basic troopers to try and increase their threat to assault units going forward.

[Medjugorje]

but then they would be extremly good - maybe too good.

[War Angel]

Not only would that break them, but it would continue the issue of “the best way to kill terminators is mass light arms”

[Medjugorje]

but we all know that the main problem is their input abilities (which are not great so far)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

What’s more iconic than Sword Brethren terminators ?

[Lucerne]

but then they would be extremly good - maybe too good.

Well we can't have that, can we?

[Brother Tyler]

Note that I've hidden some OT posts. One of the discussion parameters is that the topic is not about wish listing.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Thanks. :)

[MegaVolt87]

Since the flyer article, saying when they arrive they still have to be 9' away from enemy models, I think its likely the DS rules are going to stay as they are instead of go to 6' which would be ideal. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

6" is too close. I’d settle for 8" though.

[Cruor Vault]

I've been hearing through the playtester grapevine that Landraiders are looking to be quite good this edition.  If that's actually the case it's another point in favor for Terminators since they're about the only thing of value we can put in the damn things!

 

Looking over the Heavy Cover rule, it strikes me that Terminators would be damn near indestructible when charging into cover at 2+ with a +1.  I'm scrambling to make sure my Lightning Claw Cataphractii are ready to go and toying with a Dual lightning claw terminator character conversion.

[Gederas]

I've been hearing through the playtester grapevine that Landraiders are looking to be quite good this edition.  If that's actually the case it's another point in favor for Terminators since they're about the only thing of value we can put in the damn things!

 

Looking over the Heavy Cover rule, it strikes me that Terminators would be damn near indestructible when charging into cover at 2+ with a +1.  I'm scrambling to make sure my Lightning Claw Cataphractii are ready to go and toying with a Dual lightning claw terminator character conversion.

I already have 15 :lol: This is going to be fun

[Hymnblade]

I've been hearing through the playtester grapevine that Landraiders are looking to be quite good this edition. If that's actually the case it's another point in favor for Terminators since they're about the only thing of value we can put in the damn things!

I'm pretty skeptical of Land Raiders becoming good, unless you can disembark after moving. Hm...

 

Having run a lot of LRC lists this edition, Assault Centurions are easily the best thing that can go in one. But if they get a big point hike (plausible with everyone getting White Scars outflank) and Terminators don't, that may change. Right now, paying more points for 8 hammernators than 5 cents, and in exchange getting fewer wounds, worse attacks, and no shooting is just kind of dumb.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

I believe the reason they are saying that is because you can shoot your sponsons and pintle weapons at whatever is attacking you in melee. Very good for Crusader and Redeemer.

[Captain Idaho]

From what I've seen of the rules I do consider a Land Raider being good again. 2+ save, with no real way to tie it down, Power of the Machine Spirit doing something new... area terrain being obscuring will mean it is not going to be easy to kill.

 

I'm thinking 8 Cataphractii in a Crusader would do me down to a T. It'll get them up the table nicely I reckon.

 

Even with 8th edition transport rules; consider first turn it moves 10", turn 2 the squad disembark for 3" then move 4" and assault.

 

That's 17" across the table plus 2D6" (average of 7).

 

:)

[Medjugorje]

Maybe there is a Primaris Terminator release in half of 9th edtion or anything like that. I think GW will continue to redoing all types of Marines in a newer form. Some get a 1:1 transformation, other models a bit different. 

[jaxom]

I did a cost analysis the last time there was a terminator thread. The main issue with tactical terminators was the cost of the powerfist/chainfist. Terminator units with them need to get a big kill to make up those points. Smaller board sizes should make it more straight forward to get to bigger targets and the changes to vehicles and monsters means we're more likely to see those bigger targets on the board. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I only see value in terminators for fire support and killing big stuff in melee... in for a penny in for a pound. Lightning claws and power mauls seem like such a waste. The chainfist is their ultimate melee weapon inflicting straight 2 damage and AP4.

 

Something that could easily occur is the points cost per unit increases more for assault Centurions compared to Terminators... this could make them more attractive. Maybe one GeeDub will release a Primaris Terminator but who knows when it will happen?

[Dracos]

Over costing Centurions who cant deep strike isn't the answer to "Terminators making a comeback" it just means neither will get used by anyone

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I use them as do some others here to good effect, just coz they don’t work for you doesn’t makes them a bad choice.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Black Blow Fly

[Hymnblade]

Over costing Centurions who cant deep strike isn't the answer to "Terminators making a comeback" it just means neither will get used by anyone

The WHC preview for today made this comment age really quickly ;)

 

Assault Centurions got repeated point drops in 8e, because they're so hard to deliver. 52 points per model for a hurricane bolter, two flamers, a thunder hammer with no hit penalty, 4 wounds, and a 2+ save is kind of bonkers, but severely limited by the fact they have to waddle up the board or ride in a 260-point tank (in an edition where transports in general, and Land Raiders specifically, are not very good). Then RG/WS deep strike came along and made them amazing, in large part because they're so cheap for what they can do. I think it's easy to argue that Assault Centurions really are undercosted for those chapters.

 

With everyone being able to outflank them in 9e, it seems plausible that their point cost could go back up to something around the level of Devastator Centurions. That alone won't make Terminators better - I really do think that Terminators are overcosted in absolute terms right now, not just by comparison to undercosted Cents. But if Terminators effectively get a point drop in 9e (ie, they get a point hike, but a smaller one than most units) and Assault Centurions get a big one, that could go a long way to making Terminators attractive.