Thoughts on Prepping for 9e

[Dracos]

I have reservations about the Firestrike las- talons. 24” range on a stationary unit? Not my cup of tea. The Melta Invader sounds more useful and with a good driver pulling a bootleg your gunner will be just fine ;)

 

I know we are all giddy about the new toys and I’ll definitely want the Judicar and Assault Intercessors just because COOL, but I have another thought . . .

 

 

Ive always said Inceptors were too expensive until the Bolter version went down in cost. I still have ideas about a second unit because I think they’re a good unit with 9e for me. I’m not chasing the tank/monster meta. I plan on finding a way to break it. That said if I read the reveals correctly the Plasma Exterminator on the Inceptors should become blast and be auto 3 shots vs units of 6+. I wonder how that’s going to work against tanks/monsters because if it does then Plasma Inceptors might be on the menu.

 

I doubt it because plasma itself will still probably still be overcosted but it’s one of the things such as hopefully a Hellblaster points dropping (I can dream) to keep an eye on. Similarly to TWH mention of aircraft being more useful now they can fly off and back on the table. We need to keep an eye on old units new uses as 9e approaches.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

With the new melta-gravis armor depending on points, I think RG have a solid melta-cide unit that can be used to delete tanks and or MC.

 

I'll wait on rules etc before hand but that's going to be a very strong combination.

[thewarriorhunter]

I love the idea of the turret being shenaniganed up the board but I have a feeling that it will have a remain in your deployment zone, otherwise sticking that somewhere mid-board will be really nice since you'll have a fairly reasonable sized bubble of fire lane control.

[Jacques Corbin]

I actually think the Accelerator Autocannons will be better. We can do deployment shenanigans with the Eradicators to get them into position. I would take the turret over Suppressors. My only concern is the Heavy Support slot getting crowded with good options. I truly hope we get an PLASTIC artillery piece for indirect fire.

 

I really really hope the Assault Intercessors get jump packs, and power weapon options. Still, I can see placing them near the turret as a quick reaction force and/or screen against charges. Hell, if you can shoot a nearby enemy with the Accelerator Autocannons and charge with the Assault Intercessors, then no overwatch!

 

If the blade guard have bodyguard rules, they are getting SftS next to a Phobos Librarian hiding in midfield ruins. Good luck digging them out.

[Dracos]

Taking a time out since wish listing has started :)

 

Trailer hitch the FIrestrike (repulsor plates) on to the Invader and drag it around the park

 

Slip a couple boltstorm gauntlets (pistol 3 x2) on the Inceptors and punch the lights out of flyers and monsters 

 

 

 

Back On Topic

 

I've been using Stealth and Master Artisan for my Warhawks but honestly thinking the Raven Guard CT might just be the better way to go. All the new terrain rules are looking to be the one good thing for RG I've seen in the new mechanics

[Jacques Corbin]

Well, we do not know if custom successor tactics will still be a thing. Maybe, like the Imperial Fists, each first founding chapter will get 2 successor chapters with fixed tactics and even new characters. I know I really want to see Revilers, Knights of the Raven, Rift Stalkers, etc more fleshed out.

 

Also, since the 8th edition chapter supplements are still fairly new, it may be awhile before we get new supplements.

[Dracos]

Something to ponder. I’m coming at this from a defensive standpoint but we need to be aware this effects us also.

 

Deployment Shenanigans:

I’ll be using three units of Eliminators but Iron Hands could use the new Firestrike unit

- Deploy one in the middle and the other two 9 inches from the short table edge.

You’ve just blocked out your entire backfield from units arriving from reserve. You just need the units to take up 6 inches of space. 9 + 2 inch model + 18 + 2 inch model + 18 + 2 inch model + 9 = 60 inches. Backfield clear.

 

Part Two

Using two Infiltrator units deployed equidistant midfield, you can block out the entire middle board from arriving reserves. You can do the same thing with Incursors and a well place Phobos Captain. Matter of fact you can almost do it with two Phobos Captains and if you’re a evil git you’ll leave them room to arrive in front of those five Aggressors.

 

Part Three

The same thing can be done to you. Prepare for it if reserves are important part of your game plan. I’m tearing the Reiver heads off my Frankenstein Phobos conversions and going with Infiltrator heads and backpacks. I need room for my reserves to arrive.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Dracos

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I'm going to have to see the changes to Iron Hands since move-shoot became universal. That army is now one of the weakest entries in the codex; Imperial Fists are much more of a threat, removing the benefits of cover, with exploding 6s and the ability to refortify etc.

 

Fundamentally they only got better with the increase to their base CP. And basically get the Cohort for free after the first command phase. Not to mention they have gained a great boon in ignoring the changes to hard cover as well.

 

The days of iron hands are fast moving away from competitive players and back to the fan base. Which isn't a bad thing.

 

I've always felt incursors are the more aggressive unit, so taking two units of them to drop mines and eat through troops alongside a couple invictus war suits is still a solid screen breaker, keep the infiltrators blocking table edges.

 

In my opinion what you need to prepare for is having strong anti tank/Aircraft available. The moderate changes are going to push Astartes armies back from a footy list to an AV one.

[thewarriorhunter]

Bike preview is up today, T5 and 14" movement, 4W. I'm thinking they might become best friends with my inceptors. They move up the board to clear a landing zone and the inceptors drop in to mop up, then they can keep up with each other as the game progresses.

[thewarriorhunter]

Actually, after talking to some other folks better idea:

 

Bikes move in and shoot chaff. Inceptors drop in and clear any other chaf/screens. Bikes charge and murder everything. If they get hit and run... oh boy.

[WAR]

according to Warhammer Twitch live stream 1 command point for overwatch

[Dont-Be-Haten]

That's super strong for melee armies. And is welcomed to be honest.

[duz_]

So Shrikes ability is somewhat redundant now and the similar Relic.

 

On the upside it means he no longer has to charge first and can give every Fly unit the charge rerolls

[thewarriorhunter]

I'm stoked for this, speeds up game play and adds a bluffing element to the phase, sort of like how Deny the Witch is. You'll have to think about what might happen and decide if you want to use an overwatch here or hold out for possibly using it later. Also, nothing worse than tons of 6's being rolled on overwatch, lots of feel bads.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

The changes to terrain and overwstch really puts some steam behind the speculation that Raven Guard may be one of the strongest armies in 9th...at least at first glance.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I love that cover can give bonuses to overwatch now. The fact that overwatch now costs CP is a bit of a bummer, but it shouldn't really hinder the player too much. In my opinion charging a unit in cover should make the fight simultaneous, especially if the unit in cover is prepared through the "Hold Steady" mechanic.

[Dracos]

The defensible terrain piece becomes super important for shooting unit. Giving a 5+ Overwatch is about the only way I see myself spending a CP on Overwatch. Except characters charge me with a character, please, especially if I'm in defensible terrain 4+

 

I still think the pendulum looks to be swinging to hard back toward melee. I want fairness, balance, not punishment for 8e sins of over-shooting.

 

I was excited about the Eradicators but I don't know now. Unless I pay CP for a Spearhead Detachment it means dropping Eliminator squads and looking for more points.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

The defensible terrain piece becomes super important for shooting unit. Giving a 5+ Overwatch is about the only way I see myself spending a CP on Overwatch. Except characters charge me with a character, please, especially if I'm in defensible terrain 4+

 

I still think the pendulum looks to be swinging to hard back toward melee. I want fairness, balance, not punishment for 8e sins of over-shooting.

 

I was excited about the Eradicators but I don't know now. Unless I pay CP for a Spearhead Detachment it means dropping Eliminator squads and looking for more points.

To be fair, shooting has been superior for three solid editions. I doubt we will get the balance of 5th edition when it comes to being good at shooting or melee.

 

We've had editions in the past where melee was way scarier than it is now.

 

Most competitive marine players will probably move to things like dreads and tanks as they are good at both. At minimum you will see more of a balance to the lists. All of 7th and 8th was basically ranged shooting. Dealing with rip tide formations and D weapons to just straight up being nuked off the board turn one.

 

We will see how it shapes up. But I'm okay with all the changes so far.

[Dracos]

Does anyone else remember the start of 8th when Alpha striking melee units caused such devastation that T1 Alpha strikes had to be quashed? Melee has no problems that isn't fixed by an appropriate delivery device. Once they make contact the charging army is nigh unstoppable. 

 

I'm not predicting 9e is a failure before launch, only that there is merit in being cautious. 

 

On more personal note. Bow beat spear, gun beat sword, cannon beat walls, etc. :)

[Jacques Corbin]

Well, I know I will be called names for bringing 2 Thunderfire Cannons to a game, as I have brought for the past 5 years.

 

It's like a friend who plays guard. He was just a tread head, until 8th dropped and his tanks could fire twice, that he was labeled a power gamer for bringing his go to list.

 

I truly hope we do not become the easy win chapter in 9th. I really do not want to be in the company of a bunch of meta chasers trying to hop on a bandwagon. This is a fun hobby, and I despise sharing it with people who make it less fun.

 

Hobby stores, and game shops are reopening. I really just want to hang out and play a game or two. But, mostly I like the sense of community, and discussing the lore, and the work and back story put into a player's army.

[WAR]

Well, I know I will be called names for bringing 2 Thunderfire Cannons to a game, as I have brought for the past 5 years.

 

It's like a friend who plays guard. He was just a tread head, until 8th dropped and his tanks could fire twice, that he was labeled a power gamer for bringing his go to list.

 

I truly hope we do not become the easy win chapter in 9th. I really do not want to be in the company of a bunch of meta chasers trying to hop on a bandwagon. This is a fun hobby, and I despise sharing it with people who make it less fun.

 

Hobby stores, and game shops are reopening. I really just want to hang out and play a game or two. But, mostly I like the sense of community, and discussing the lore, and the work and back story put into a player's army.

 

exactly I just want to play an army because I like the look of them, have fun and hang out with friends. 

[thewarriorhunter]

I have that concern as well, however look at Iron Hands. Die hard players finally had their time to shine because rules made them incredibly OP, but it lasted for all of what... a few months? If RG come out of the gates dominating you can be sure that it won't be for the whole edition, especially if GW is pushing out digital rules that can be more quickly adjusted and easily distributed.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Honestly I've said it before, but I really believe smite spam armies are going to be the it factor.

 

RG just have a great well rounded chapter tactic and doctrine.

 

In a lot of ways they will be on par with armies like BA and Ultras.

 

But GKs were already building steam, and with the changes to detachments they improved more than other armies. BA are foinf to just about have to take a secondary detachment.

 

Raven guard actually benefit from the changes to ovwrwatch etc in that aspect as a phobos lobby with deny overwatch spell has become more niche but is still a solid 4th HQ option, which is easily picked up by a patrol detachment. Though if you like playing smash captains I think Supreme command detachments will be the new hotness to take 2 + phobos libby/JP chaplain.

 

Like I said in the BA thread, there is almost no reason not to attempt to charge with a unit from 12" out. Psychological tactics from that is awesome, and you don't have to worry about free overwatches like before.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I came to Raven Guard at the end of 7th edition, and I started collecting some stuff, but I really wasn't able to start doing anything real until now when we're almost in 9th. I want very much to be in a good position starting 9th edition, but I don't want to be assured that I'll wing 80% of my games just because I play Raven Guard. That would really suck.

 

I'm excited for some of the new units, like the Invader ATV and bikes because I like the Horde control the invader offers with the onslaught cannon. The Eradicators offer me a great anti-vehicle threat and the assault intercessors offer a great melee counter to screen stuff.

[Dracos]

So Shrikes ability is somewhat redundant now and the similar Relic.

 

On the upside it means he no longer has to charge first and can give every Fly unit the charge rerolls

 

Ok wow. I'm slow on the light bulb. It's not just redundant, but useless. Shrike's ability doesn't exist for all purposes. The mechanics cancel any effect it might have. No one is spending CP to shoot at a character that can't be shot. There is no point having an ability if it ignored by the game mechanics. Argh. Another example of taking all things good Raven Guard, splitting them in half and giving them away for free. 

 

Breathe Dracos breathe