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Fear of the Future. Standard Marines line phase-out.

Speculation

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#1
CMDR_Welles

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So, with the coming of 9th and the ever expanding Primaris product line; my fears of the eventual phase out of the basic Marines line has been growing of late. I know they've stated that they weren't being phased out in 9e (so they say), but the inevitability of full replacement is there on the horizon. So I am wondering if I should start the slow (but steady) process of buying those remaining models and kits I need to finish out my Dark Angels army. 

I know I'd never get a decent price for them, so sadly selling isnt really an option. I was working my way towards a full 5th Company company, and I've got most of that already. I've also got a pretty decent amount of Deathwing as well. What I am missing though is some Ravenwing that I would like to have. 

It'll be easier if I list what I already have than to say what I still need. 

Master (Dark Vengeance)

Librarian (Dark Vengeance)

Chaplain (Dark Vengeance)

Belial
Terminator Librarian

Asmodai
Sammael in Sableclaw

Talonmaster
 

Deathwing Ancient
Deathwing Apothecary

Deathwing Champion

Deathwing Knights x5

Deathwing Terminator squads (5 man) x5 (Dark Vengeance)

Contemptor Dreadnoughts x2

Land Raider Crusader

 

Ravenwing Bike Squads (6 man) x2 (Dark Vengeance)

Ravenwing Bike Squad (3 man) x1 (Dark Vengeance)

 

Tactical Squads (10 man) x6 (Dark Vengeance)

Devastator Squads (5 man) x2

Assault Squads (10 man) x1

Scout Squads w/Bolters (10 man) x1

Scout Squads w/Sniper Rifles (5 man) x2

2 Dreadnoughts

 

Razorbacks x2

Rhinos x2

Whirlwind x1

Predator x1

 

 

This leaves me still needing quite a few things to finish off what I was aiming for when I started this Dark Angels army project with 6e. I still want to add:

 

1 Command Squad box to make Ancient, Apothecary, Champion, and two Greenwing Lieutenants. 

1 Tactical Marine box to flesh out both Devastator Squads to full 10 man units. 

2 Assault Squad boxes to form another 10 man Assault Squad.

3 Ravenwing Bike boxes for a 6 man squad of Black Knights, as well as an Ancient, Apothecary, and Champion

I'd also like to add a Darkshroud, Vengeance, and at least 2-3 flyers. 

 

And I still need to get 6 more Rhinos...

 

I'm not counting any of the Primaris models I've been getting with the 8e box sets, most are still on the sprue.

I just dont know if its going to be worth it for a line that will eventually be phased out. But then, I'd finally have my dream Dark Angels army I've wanted since 2e.

 

I'd love to know the communities thoughts. 

 

 

 

 



#2
Firedrake Cordova

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I just dont know if its going to be worth it for a line that will eventually be phased out. But then, I'd finally have my dream Dark Angels army I've wanted since 2e.

I have no idea if it'd be "worth it" in game terms, but if you have had a dream of doing something for a while, that may be the important bit (obviously, this isn't something that should cause you financial difficulty, etc).


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#3
Sargeant Centurion

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If its your dream, do it!. I do the same whit my chapter, a full battle company, half of 1 first. Maybe i ad 1 more pod and a stormhawk, and more terminatorsm and 5 veterans more. I see it more like a hobby inversion for years. Some people can look at it like a waste of money, becouse "primaris its the future", but i dont care, the best part of the hobby for me its build, convert and paint.


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#4
Panzer

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Well you only have few options.

  1. Accept that at some point in the future your army will be unsupported and thus slowly fall behind and eventually perhaps completely discontinued in a distant future (who knows how long Legends will stick around). It's somewhat inevitable but there are people who learned to not care and just enjoy what they have for their own reasons (similar to playing with older editions).
  2. Begin to slowly switch to the new reality that is Primaris and be good.
  3. Try to finish your project even though you know it's days are numbered. That probably means with every new purchase the regret when the time comes to face reality will be bigger. Not really an option I'd recommend but denial is definitely something one can easily slip into so should still be mentioned. sweat.gif

 

Whether the first option is a viable approach completely depends on you and how able you are to handle such things emotionally and mentally. Personally I know that it's not for me. Not for such a huge project at least. Also on the group you play with if they ever get completely discontinued I guess.

The second option is the most reasonable if you want to stick with Marines and is the one most people in the hobby will go with. It hurts, but getting left behind because one tried to live in the past hurts more. Start with replacing your greenwing I'd say. Intercessors are great models and unless you took Tacticals for their Heavy weapon they fill the same role on the board and in the fluff.

The last option is no good but something many will experience unfortunately. Everyone has to face reality at some point. Primaris are the new thing and regular Marines are eventually a thing of the past and so will be this project. Accept it (Option 1 and 2) or get hurt. ermm.gif


Edited by Panzer, 16 June 2020 - 08:24 AM.

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#5
MARK0SIAN

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As soon as they stop selling any of the kits you want then you’ll immediately regret not getting them and wish you had when you had the chance, even if they’re effectively obsolete in game terms.
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#6
Umbros

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One of the advantages to Firstborn getting phased out (which I don't think they will for a while) wwill be that it makes it easier to use them as counts-as. When there's no distinction rules wise between Primaris and Firstborn then you are just seeing a marine.


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#7
SpecialIssue

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You will have completed your dream, matching army of OOP models which becomes increasingly more unique as time goes on. There's huge personal satisfaction in that I think.

 

Gaming and rules-wise - Legends will be official forever since it'll never be updated after the final old school marine is phased out. The actual gaming aspect of the hobby is the most flexible part of it since its basically only reliant on two opponents coming to an understanding on what imaginary, made up rules. And as Umbros said, counts-as - even if Legends is 'officially de-officialised', they're all still GW models and can be used as counts-as.

 

I don't know why the 40k community culture is so rigid on allowing GW to force them how to play the game. Like, change up rules in the current edition with your gaming group if they suck or aren't doing it for you, use different models or cool new unit concepts and conversions - there is literally no-one to stop you from at least experimenting.


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#8
Brother Casman

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Speaking as someone doing something similar, Commander Welles, I'd say go for it. Complete the army - there's a lot of satisfaction in finishing a project.
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#9
Captain Idaho

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Always go with your gut - if you've always wanted a DA army "completed" then go for it.

Funnily enough, if you're much more satisfied with your army situation then you might actually find yourself happily moving to another army going forward. Maybe even Primaries ;)
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#10
Reinhard

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Always go with your gut - if you've always wanted a DA army "completed" then go for it.

Funnily enough, if you're much more satisfied with your army situation then you might actually find yourself happily moving to another army going forward. Maybe even Primaries msn-wink.gif

I second this. Go with your gut. How attached to your army, or the idea that it is completed, are you?

 

Also, bare in mind, that even if classics are 'phased out', they'll still be legal to play through the legends system. That's pretty much the whole point of it. Furthermore, I wouldn't expect to current classic models to disappear anytime soon, save maybe for updated characters and such.



#11
sarabando

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im more worried about 30k as alot of the 30k kits are reliant on plastic kits like the rhino and if marines get squatted in favour of primaris then we may loose alot of other kits.



#12
Gederas

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im more worried about 30k as alot of the 30k kits are reliant on plastic kits like the rhino and if marines get squatted in favour of primaris then we may loose alot of other kits.

See, this is why I say we'll never see Firstborn be truly "squatted". Because there's other kits and an entire GAME that relies on them.
 


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#13
HighMarshalAmp

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The FW 40k Books are currently being reworked as well. It seems FW is finally getting some love so Oldmarines might still have a safe haven there.


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#14
BrainFireBob

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Between Horus Heresy and the Chaos range, I can't see Firstborn being squated. Worst case I see is "having" to run them as Chaos or proxied Primaris someday.

I'm 3 Battle Companies, a first company, and 10th company in for Oldmarines. I'm finishing my dream projects for my custom chapter, then adding Primaris. I just made my final purchase yesterday.

Accomplish *your* goals, frater.
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#15
Captain Idaho

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I should point out that Stu Black has a well established collection of Classic/Old Marines and he wants to use them.

Whilst he's head of the design studio for 40K we stand a good chance of staying relevant rules wise, even when the business side of things only pushes Primaris Marines.

Of course, business can overrule his position I'm sure so we might see another round of models to Legends. Despite that meaning we still have rules, folk don't like their toys being relegated to such a position as unsupported etc and it would be the death knell of the faction for Old Marines.


So who knows :)
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#16
Leonaides

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I still hanker after hh marines here and there to complement my daft quantity of firstborn marines, but I've got my completed companies and support vehicles. Will they ever stop being relevant? Not while I can still whip out a 2nd ed yarrick, while my opponent still uses an armourcast baseplate, while another opponent still uses 40 rt beakie marines as the backbone of his force.

Marines don't wear out, they fossilised and get harder.

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#17
Ishagu

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I had just finished putting together and painting an 8k Ultramarines army, all equipped in MkIV armour, with all sorts of FW vehicles, multiple Grav Cannon units, etc etc.

1 month later 8th edition and Primaris came out.

I didn't rage, but initially I wasn't happy. I accepted the reality however, and I slowly started to add more and more Primaris units to my army.
We're now 4 years after the original Primaris release, and I now have well over 4500 points of the new guys, and can run all sorts of Primaris-only lists. I did this gradually, without putting pressure on myself. It was also pretty cheap relative to other stuff in the hobby because of how readily available the kits were in all sorts or starter sets.

Now I love the new guys. They look amazing on the tabletop and tower over the infantry in other armies, and they play really well. They feel more like Astartes than the classic Astartes ever did lol.

My advice would be to start collecting them and build up your Primaris collection gradually. One day when you have a bigger force you won't regret starting it.

Edited by Ishagu, 16 June 2020 - 10:36 PM.

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#18
redmapa

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Its certainly coming but not in the near future and thats assuming 30k goes kaput because if it doesnt then that will be the new home for old marines. Also to keep things in perspective its worth mentioning that Sisters of Battle and Eldar have or had like 15+ year old sculpts so GW isnt so keen on removing old miniatures that they can still sell and marines sell, I give it at least 10 years before old marines are gone completely but it might also be 15.

 

If you want a foce of old marines then start building it!


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#19
Lord_Caerolion

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I can fully see Forge World expanding the Horus Heresy into a full "Ages of Darkness" line, or something like that, that covers all periods from the Crusade up until the Indomitus Crusade, similar to how the Old World is getting brought back. There's been so many Astartes-centric battles over the history of 40k, I just can't ever see GW saying you can't recreate those anymore, while the Tyranids/AdMech players can recreate the battles of Tyran, and so on.


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#20
Evil Eye

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I've said this before, but I'd be very skeptical of doomsaying about the phasing out of Firstborn. I highly, HIGHLY doubt they'd be daft enough to Squat or even Legends the Firstborn range for a few reasons.

 

Firstly, the Space Marines are by far and away their best selling line, their golden goose if you will. Now, remember what happened when the Tomb Kings and Bretonnians were Squatted for AoS- people were mad. Even with 40K, remember what happened when the Squats were, well, Squatted- even though they were at the time fairly unpopular and were axed because of low sales/interest, people got upset about it and for decades people have wanted them back (whether that's out of genuine love for Space Dwarfs or just because they have "shiny mystery thing of old" syndrome is another matter). Now imagine if GW pulled support for vast chunks of their most popular range. People would be absolutely furious and no amount of Primaris sales would save them.

 

Secondly, it's not like the Space Marine line has been dying for years and the Primaris were invented to "save" the flagship army. Up until 8th, Astartes were still getting the VAST majority of the shiny new toys, to a ridiculous degree. Some (the Hunter/Stalker, the Sternguard and Vanguard) were better than others (Storm Talon, Centurions) but there is no doubt that they got a LOT of attention. There's very few really crusty, dated kits in the Space Marine range- they don't have a Khorne Berserker equivalent. The only major units that could maybe do with new kits are the Terminators (which aren't terrible by any stretch) and the Land Raider (which is perfectly acceptable as long as you don't bother with the half-there interior). It's not like the proliferation of Primaris is stopping the Space Marines getting desperately needed new kits for existing units, it just means that any shiny new toys will be Primaris rather than Firstborn.

 

Finally, I don't see why they'd need to "retire" Firstborn when they can keep both lines going and sell even more Marines. Having shiny new thing AND beloved iconic favourites means they're appealing to all markets.

 

But yeah I wouldn't worry. If core kits do get retired it'll be for updated replacements, not to phase them out entirely. If there's something you want then get it but I wouldn't rush.


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#21
Reinhard

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I just think its a mistake to think of classic marines and primaris marines as different ranges to begin with. I doubt GW do. They're all space marines.

 

There's older and newer elements to the range. Older elements have already gone to legends. Will additional ones eventually go there? No doubt. But not soon. Certainly not this edition.


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#22
templargdt

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Tough call Welles.  That is a lot of money out for for an army that probably has relatively little shelf life left.  Will they be supported in Legends?  Sure.  But my guess is that it's going to be increasingly difficult to get use out of them as time goes on, as a lot of players will pass on playing legends armies.  If you have a solid group of friends that play, probably not a challenge.  Random games at the local store?  Eh...

 

The other issue is matched play.  It's been discussed a lot on the board how much time left non-primaris units have left.  No one knows for sure but my personal guess is that 9th is probably the last edition most old marine unit will be supported in the codex.  I'm pretty sure most big tournaments like ITC have already said no on Legends units.  

If it were me, I would probably let it go.  I don't have nearly enough time for the hobby I used to, and I would not want to sink money and time into a project that I knew was on a relatively short time horizon for a lot of play options.  


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#23
Lanparth

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Just count them as Chaos Space Marines, as Chaos isn't getting the Primaris Treatment (and it shows in terms of how limited and gimmicky they are as a faction!), that way you can have the worst of both worlds, lmao.

 

But in all seriousness, I'd not really collect oldmarines, I think that they will be phased out, unfortunately.  They might get roped into Horus Heresy in some capacity, but I think their sun has set.



#24
Malakithe

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Honestly when Primaris first was released i knew the old line would be phased out 5-10 years...here we are nearly 5 years later. So far so good...I stopped buying all non-Primaris marines when they came out. Only the unique stuff is still good for bitz but thats it. 

 

No one needs to be afraid of it happening cuz it will happen. Theres nothing, literally nothing that anyone can do about it. Honestly everyone should have seen this coming and planned for it. More and more will go to Legends and be forgotten completely as newer players come in. And thats ultimately GW's goal here. To keep things fresh, current, and modernized. Appealing to the eye so newer, younger players will join and stay for the long haul.

 

Im planning for the future of the line. Stockpile chapter specific bits and waiting for more and more Primaris stuff cuz they are the future of 40k and this hobby.


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#25
Ultramarine vet

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Well, I just don't think about when firstborn marines will phase out. It's not any time soon, I'm not panicking over all the primaris. I have never been their biggest fan. They are okay and cool, but I personally like my firstborn marines better. I'm actually only just now starting to like primaris with their new releases in 9e. And until the day comes that firstborn marines aren't around anymore, then I will turn to collecting some primaris and loads of Orks. My custom chapter will remain a firstborn chapter, and in my fluff they are even more motivated to compete with their primaris brethren.

Overall, don't worry about primaris or how long our classic marines have left! Collect your army the way you want. Classic marines will still be around for many years, even if they don't sell as well as primaris. Because let's be real here, there are still a lot of people that like the classic marines, whether GW wants us to or not.
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