Deathguard summoning Chaos daemon codex units.

[angrom]

Hi never looked into summoning in the past mostly because the conditions for it were too restrictive.

Now that we have new stratagems and warlord traits that makes it easier and more reliable I am looking back to it.

 

For example our daemon engines will benefit a lot from a poxbringer character from chaos daemon codex using the loci

and special rules from chaos daemon detachment and stratagems.

 

My question is, can we actually summon daemon units that are not in our codex? like a poxbringer with reserve points?

If we do so, does this newly added model work like a single model detachment and still bring with it

all the rules such as loci, stratagems and powers from the chaos daemon codex?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Yes, you can summon any model with the demonic ritual rule, regardless of their source.  Summoned units do not count as part of any detachment, and therefore do not benefit from loci.

 

They can benefit from stratagems from the daemon codex, provided you also have a daemon detachment - as it is the daemon detachment that gives you access to those stratagems.

 

As for powers, do you mean psychic powers?  Yes, you have access to those if the summoned unit is a psycher, and you chose the powers when it is summoned.

[Special Officer Doofy]

You can summon any Daemon with the <Nurgle> keyword. None of the daemons in the DG codex have the Death Guard keyword and are in there for you to have the datasheets if you summon.

 

Daemonic Loci requirement in the chaos Daemon codex is Battleforged and in a chaos Daemon Detatchment, and summons are not in a Detatchment so no, you do not get the Loci. And I believe to access the Daemon strats it has the same requirement, having a Daemon Detatchment.

 

Edit: Dr. R beat me to the punch. Curse my slow typing.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Putrid Choir

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Sorry PC.

 

One last word about demonic loci - while your summoned demon characters cannot have the loci as they don't form a part of detachment, summoned demons do still get loci benefits from demon characters that are chosen from a mono-god demon detachment. Indeed any model with the DEMON keyword does - so, for example, a Deathguard Demon Prince will benefit from the loci of nurgle generated by characters from a seperate NURGLE DEMON detachment.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Doesn't summoning just require someone with the DAEMONIC SUMMONING key words?

 

Could I use my Deathguard characters to summon outside of their codex from another detatchment?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

The demonic ritual is a rule, not a keyword and it belongs to the unit being summoned, not the summoner.  Basically, any unit with the demonic ritual rule can be summoned by a CHAOS CHARACTER with the <ALLEGIANCE> or <MARK> keyword (so, the NURGLE, KHORNE, TZEENCH or SLAANESH keywords) matching that of the summoned unit.

 

And no, you can't summon something from another detachment - summoning doesn't take units from detachments, but instead draws from a pool of points that you have reserved for "creating" units mid game (through summoning, adding pox walkers to a unit, dividing horrors, etc).  Units in detachments have to be placed on the table or be brought on by some other rule (for example, the raptors or terminators rule that lets them enter the game after the 1st turn, or the Chaos Daemon stratagem that lets units from that codex do the same thing). 

 

But yes, your deathguard character could summon any NURGLE demon with the demonic ritual rule - which is any NURGLE demon from the Chaos Daemon codex.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Wolf Lord Loki]

If I built a nurgle Daemon detachment and allotted a significant amount for summoned units.

 

Would a death guard detachment be able to summon those as well given they are chaos characters?

[Special Officer Doofy]

If the Daemons are in a detatchment, they can't be summoned because of what Dr. R explained. Anything summoned is not part of a Detatchment and can't have the Daemonic locus because of that. They can be the target of strategems though as long as you have a Battleforged Daemons Detatchment.

 

Edit: So you can have a DG Detatchment and a Nurgle Daemon Detatchment and nurgle daemons you plan on summoning in the list you paid points for but not in any detatchment. The summoned daemons can be the target of strats because you get access to the strats from the Detatchment. But if you have a Poxbringer in the Detatchment and summon another Poxbringer, only the Detatchment one has the Loci. In my opinion summoning still kind of sucks.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Putrid Choir

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Also note, that if you have a detachment with loci, summoned demons can benefit from that loci as the benefit of that loci isn't restricted to units in that detachment.  So, a summoned unit of plaguebearers would benefit from the loci of a of a poxbringer from a NURGLE DEMON detachment.

 

However, a summoned unit itself wouldn't have loci so summoned characters would not generate the aura giving the loci benefit.

[MasterDeath]

Another summary:

 

- Daemons in Detachement cannot be summoned by the Daemonic Ritual rule, but you get Stratagems, Loci, Relics etc. by fielding them. You have to pay for them normally with your points.

- Daemons that are summoned are independent units. They do not exist on your rooster at the start of the game, but they are paid for by reserve points. These reserve points are on your rooster. In the moment you make a summon roll and choose a unit to summon, you reduce your reserve points and bring the unit into play, according to rules

- Summoned Daemons from this point on act like a normal unit (getting buffs, stratagems used on them etc.) except for rules, that require them to be in a Detachement.

- There are a few advantages and disadvantages for summoning

1. Flexibility

You can basically deep strike them, as long as the summoner is in range, also you choose the summonde unit according to your summon roll and according to your needs

2. No CP (soon to change)

Summoned units do not give you CP, as they do not form a detachement. This will change in 9th and turn into and advantage. In 9th additional Detachement will cost CP. So chaos will be able to mix in cheap infantry or whatever is needed by summoning. Just add an additional cheap character for summoning purposes.