Berzul Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Hey everyone. So, I am very close to finishing up my Firstborn army for my Successor Chapter, the Wings of Dawn. Hidden Content "Very close" being a loose term, since I need to finish my Techmarine, two Whirlwinds and a Stormraven for my Armory, my 10 DWK, my DW Ancient, my Counts-As-Belial, for the 1st Co., as well as my 6 RWBK and my LSV for my 8th Co. (and I might throw a Talon Master and a Counts-As-Sableclaw in there.... maybe). I plan on calling my Firstborns as done, then and there. I have a ton of kits I will be using to amuse myself while I wait for the range of new models to become more available, and for the cash to flow in to buy them. Which, might take a few months. In the meantime, I am trying to plan ahead to a Primaris-Only Company for my custom chapter. They will most likely be the 4th company of my army. And, as this army is formed around lore, and not optimization, I want to try and keep it as organized as possible. Which leads into my question: With the new models coming out, how do you think a Primaris Company might look like, from a structural and organizational stand point? I know Primaris are supposed to fit all roles, and just jump from one armor and weapon to the other, as the situation requires, but I do want to build an army that has a sense of structure, following the classical codex organizational chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywrath Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 4th company layout for the Dark Angels as follows (note, how they added the primaris units to the list, which I thought interesting).: Master Korahael, Master of the Fleet[30b] -> Lazarus conversion, or Master in Gravis Armor. 2 Lieutenants -> Primaris Lieutenant from 9th box Chaplain -> Primaris Chaplain from 9th box Apothecary -> Primaris Apothecary Company Ancient -> New Primaris Ancient from the 9th box Company Champion -> *Maybe Judicar? Can't think of a Primaris Unit that fills that role, something that is close to lord-executioner?* Company Veterans -> Bladeguard Veteran 6 Battleline Squads -> Intercessors 2 Close Support Squads -> Assault Intercessors 2 Dreadnoughts -> Redemptor Dreadnoughts, although Contemptors could work, if you are sentimental. Rhinos -> Impulsors Razorback -> *No substitute* Repulsor -> Repulsor Ironically, you could probably do some pretty interesting work on the table-top with that (I'm probably going to plug this into Battlescribe to see how that turns out). But yeah. If we were to embrace our imagination, then the structure (at least the basic one) should look like: Captain - 2 Lieutenant - Apothecary/Chaplain/Champion/Veteran - Intercessors - Inceptors/Eradicators/Hellblasters - Vehicles. That has been my impression upon reading War of Secrets, and those new Ultramarine books that have primaris in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) With the new models coming out, how do you think a Primaris Company might look like, from a structural and organizational stand point? I know Primaris are supposed to fit all roles, and just jump from one armor and weapon to the other, as the situation requires, but I do want to build an army that has a sense of structure, following the classical codex organizational chart. So, if you're using the Codex structure (which the Dark Angels follow), a Battle Company is this: Company Command (Master [Captain for those non-Dark Angels], 2 Lieutenants (amusingly left out in the Codex: Dark Angels ), Command Squad) 6 Battleline Squads 2 Close Support Squads 2 Fire Support Squads Dreadnoughts Codex: Space Marines (2019) also states a company can have up to 10 reinforcement squads from the Reserve Companies. So for Primaris we have this for units. All of the markings are based on the official pictures GW has produced, as well as the codices: Company Command (/): Master Lieutenants Apothecary Company Ancient Company Veterans Company Champion Battleline (): Intercessors Infiltrators Close Support (): Assault Intercessors (as shown by the "What's in the Box?" reveal) Inceptors Incursors Invader ATV Outriders Reivers Fire Support (): Aggressors Eliminators Eradicators Firestrike Servo-turret Hellblasters Suppressors Of these, we know these are specifically called out as being predominantly the Vanguard/10th Company: Eliminators Incursors Infiltrators Reivers Suppressors So for a Primaris company the layout would be as such (discounting Chaplains, Librarians and Techmarines, as they are outside the Company structure): Captain 2 Lieutenants Ancient Apothecary Bladeguard Veterans (as a replacement for the Company Veterans for the Command Squad of old) Intercessor Squad 1 Intercessor Squad 2 Intercessor Squad 3 Intercessor Squad 4 Intercessor Squad 5 Intercessor Squad 6 Assault Intercessors/Inceptors/Invader ATV/Outriders (choice here) Assault Intercessors/Inceptors/Invader ATV/Outriders (choice here) Aggressors/Eradicators/Firestrike Servo-turret/Hellblasters/Suppressors (choice here) Aggressors/Eradicators/Firestrike Servo-turret/Hellblasters/Suppressors (choice here) Any number of Dreadnoughts, usually 2-3 As of right now, we don't have a Company Champion for Primaris, as the Judiciar is explicitly a member of the Reclusiam. And since your Wings of Dawn are more Codex-Compliant, they'd have the Bikers/ATVs in normal companies, not just the 2nd like the regular Dark Angels Edited June 17, 2020 by Gederas Berzul 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 Yeah I was thinking something along those lines. Repurposed Lazarus 2 Lieutenants (not sure which models I would use, though) Apothecary Ancient <something as a champion> Bladeguard + Ancient as veterans 30 Intercessors as the first battleline 10 Assault Intercessors as an assault squad Outriders and the dune-buggy thing as another Assault Squad Helblasters as a devastator squad The new melta guys as another devastator squad Redemptor Dreadnoughts for dreadnoughts I would not really take any of the infiltrator guys, or inceptors, but I AM intrigued by the Agressors, and where they could fit. With the new models coming out, how do you think a Primaris Company might look like, from a structural and organizational stand point? I know Primaris are supposed to fit all roles, and just jump from one armor and weapon to the other, as the situation requires, but I do want to build an army that has a sense of structure, following the classical codex organizational chart. So, if you're using the Codex structure (which the Dark Angels follow), a Battle Company is this: Company Command (Master [Captain for those non-Dark Angels], 2 Lieutenants (amusingly left out in the Codex: Dark Angels ), Command Squad) 6 Battleline Squads 2 Close Support Squads 2 Fire Support Squads Dreadnoughts Codex: Space Marines (2019) also states a company can have up to 10 reinforcement squads from the Reserve Companies. So for Primaris we have this for units: Company Command (/): Master Lieutenants Apothecary Company Ancient Company Veterans Company Champion Battleline (): Intercessors Infiltrators Close Support (): Assault Intercessors (as shown by the "What's in the Box?" reveal) Inceptors Incursors Outriders Reivers Fire Support (): Aggressors Eliminators Eradicators Hellblasters Suppressors Of these, we know these are specifically called out as being predominantly the Vanguard/10th Company: Eliminators Incursors Infiltrators Reivers Suppressors So for a Primaris company the layout would be as such (discounting Chaplains, Librarians and Techmarines, as they are outside the Company structure): Captain 2 Lieutenants Ancient Apothecary Bladeguard Veterans (as a replacement for the Company Veterans for the Command Squad of old) Intercessor Squad 1 Intercessor Squad 2 Intercessor Squad 3 Intercessor Squad 4 Intercessor Squad 5 Intercessor Squad 6 Assault Intercessors/Inceptors/Outriders (choice here) Assault Intercessors/Inceptors/Outriders (choice here) Aggressors/Eradicators/Hellblasters/Suppressors (choice here) Aggressors/Eradicators/Hellblasters/Suppressors (choice here) Any number of Dreadnoughts, usually 2-3 As of right now, we don't have a Company Champion for Primaris, as the Judiciar is explicitly a member of the Reclusiam. Wow, that is a THOROUGH breakdown.... THANKS! Gederas 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywrath Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 My guess is for the Aggressors would probably be Battle-line, if not then (thematically speaking) Heavy Support. Berzul 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) Stuff here Wow, that is a THOROUGH breakdown.... THANKS! No problem. I realized I missed two units in my breakdown, so I edited them into my post It's thorough because I uhh.... Kind of have both Codex: Dark Angels and Codex: Space Marines (2019) right next to my computer desk :lol: Edited June 17, 2020 by Gederas Berzul 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nusphigor Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) am I the only one who considers the assault intercessors just battleline intercessors with a different weapon option, just like the option the Tactical marines used to have a looooooooong time ago? Edited June 17, 2020 by nusphigor Zebukkuk and WrathOfTheLion 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 The assault intercessor definitely reminds me more of how chainsword/bolt pistol is handled in Horus Heresy, where it is a variant of the tactical marine. Zebukkuk and nusphigor 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMDR_Welles Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) The assault intercessor definitely reminds me more of how chainsword/bolt pistol is handled in Horus Heresy, where it is a variant of the tactical marine. am I the only one who considers the assault intercessors just battleline intercessors with a different weapon option, just like the option the Tactical marines used to have a looooooooong time ago? The artwork has them with Close Support markings. I've always equated Chainsword marines as Assault troops, at least since we lost the ability for basic marines (3-4e Marine codex?) to take Chainswords and Bolters. I used to routinely take Assault Marines without jumppacks when the Rhino Rush was a thing. Plus it was easier to model as jump packs were still metal lol (standard Marines, not DA) Edited June 17, 2020 by CMDR_Welles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) The artwork has them with Close Support markings. I've always equated Chainsword marines as Assault troops, at least since we lost the ability for basic marines (3-4e Marine codex?) to take Chainswords and Bolters. I used to routinely take Assault Marines without jumppacks when the Rhino Rush was a thing. Plus it was easier to model as jump packs were still metal lol (standard Marines, not DA) Definitely, they have the close combat markings. To me they're just reminiscent more of a despoiler squad/tactical squad in HH than the way 40k does it. This is similar to how intercessors in general are more like a tactical squad in HH, where they can't take heavy weapons, etc. and hellblasters being somewhat reminiscent of a tactical support squad. Edited June 17, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion Zebukkuk 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 So, how would THIS look for a 4th Company of Primaris? To start, A Primaris Master, using the Lazarus model, most likely A lieutenant, using the Volkite Pistol one from the new releases Another lieutenant, using the Dark Angels Primaris Lieutenant, most likely A Primaris Chaplain (the one for the new edition looks amazing) Then, An Apothecary A Company Ancient (although, I cannot find one in the GW online store. Has it been removed from the range?) (I have trouble figuring out how to fill a company champion slot, here) For veterans, definetly Bladeguard A Bladeguard Ancient Then, for troops, and considering one battleline Two squads of 10 intercessors, for ranged support One squad of 10 assault intercessors, for close combat (in a transport) To fill up the close combat slot for one battleline A squad of 3 outriders, with 2 guys on a buggy for support, making a 5 man team A squad of 5 inceptors with plasma, tying up the number on a nice and neat 10-man strong for the organizational slot. As for heavy fire support, Of course, helblasters, and at 10-man And, despite my original plan being to follow a 3-troops, 1 assault, 1 heavy support structure, here I'd go for a second team, and fill it up with a group of 5 bolter agressors, and a team of 5 flamestorm gauntlet agressors Dreads, of course, Would be redemptors. One, at least. Full bolts, not plasma. And I'd try to pick up some transports and support vehicles overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 The layout for a DA primaris company it's not easy cause the MKX armour is ful modular so unlike in the past where we had 3 kind of squads (tactical, assault, devastators) with the complement of the command group now we have battleline, close support and fire support marines that can configure their armours following the Company Master needs So a full primaris Company would be 1 Primaris Master (phobos, tacticus, "bladeguard", gravis) 1 Chaplain (Tacticus) 2 Lieutenants (tacticus, "bladeguard", phobos) 1 Company ancient (tacticus) 1 Primaris Apothecary (tacticus) 6 Battleline squads (intercessors or infiltrators) 2 Close Support squads (inceptors, incursors, reivers, assault intercessors) 2 Fire Support squads (eradicators, hellblasters, suppressors, eliminators) 11 transports (impulsor, repulsor) There is still no primaris Company Veterans and Company Champion and the Bladeguard ancient is DW according to GW so there is only the ancient in tacticus from Dark Imperium Other units come from DW, RW, Armorium, Librarium, and so on and are not permanent attached to the Company This is how the organisation of a full primaris company should be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 Wait, the ancient only exists in the Dark Imperium box? Damn, so that's why I couldn't find it? ... that sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Wait, the ancient only exists in the Dark Imperium box? Damn, so that's why I couldn't find it? ... that sucks. Yes the primaris ancient it's only in Dark imperium and for that reason (monopose model) he has a fixed loadout of bolt rifle and bolt pistol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 That means I have little chance of getting one. Mmm... That really sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywrath Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Plenty on eBay for a reasonable-ish price. Also check your PM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solrac Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 The layout for a DA primaris company it's not easy cause the MKX armour is ful modular so unlike in the past where we had 3 kind of squads (tactical, assault, devastators) with the complement of the command group now we have battleline, close support and fire support marines that can configure their armours following the Company Master needs So a full primaris Company would be 1 Primaris Master (phobos, tacticus, "bladeguard", gravis) 1 Chaplain (Tacticus) 2 Lieutenants (tacticus, "bladeguard", phobos) 1 Company ancient (tacticus) 1 Primaris Apothecary (tacticus) 6 Battleline squads (intercessors or infiltrators) 2 Close Support squads (inceptors, incursors, reivers, assault intercessors) 2 Fire Support squads (eradicators, hellblasters, suppressors, eliminators) 11 transports (impulsor, repulsor) There is still no primaris Company Veterans and Company Champion and the Bladeguard ancient is DW according to GW so there is only the ancient in tacticus from Dark Imperium Other units come from DW, RW, Armorium, Librarium, and so on and are not permanent attached to the Company This is how the organisation of a full primaris company should be Vanguard/Phobos units are actually exclusive to the 10th company (as the 10th is the Scout company) so your Infiltrators, Incursors, Reivers, Suppressors and Eliminators wouldn't be in Company's 3 to 9. We'll have to wait for confirmation on the Bladeguard seeing as they have appeared in a GW picture in Deathwing colours to see which company they belong to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) Vanguard/Phobos units are actually exclusive to the 10th company (as the 10th is the Scout company) so your Infiltrators, Incursors, Reivers, Suppressors and Eliminators wouldn't be in Company's 3 to 9. We'll have to wait for confirmation on the Bladeguard seeing as they have appeared in a GW picture in Deathwing colours to see which company they belong to. Not quite. The Vanguard units are the ONLY fully-trained Astartes in the 10th company (outside of Company Command), but that's not the ONLY company they're in. Any company that has Primaris can have Vanguard units in it because every single Primaris Marine goes through the training to be a Primaris Vanguard. Essentially, should a mission call for it, the 10 Squads in a Battle Company could all swap out their armour and armaments for Primaris Vanguard equipment. Edited June 18, 2020 by Gederas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywrath Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Vanguard/Phobos units are actually exclusive to the 10th company (as the 10th is the Scout company) so your Infiltrators, Incursors, Reivers, Suppressors and Eliminators wouldn't be in Company's 3 to 9. We'll have to wait for confirmation on the Bladeguard seeing as they have appeared in a GW picture in Deathwing colours to see which company they belong to. Not quite. The Vanguard units are the ONLY fully-trained Astartes in the 10th company (outside of Company Command), but that's not the ONLY company they're in. Any company that has Primaris can have Vanguard units in it because every single Primaris Marine goes through the training to be a Primaris Vanguard. Essentially, should a mission call for it, the 10 Squads in a Battle Company could all swap out their armour and armaments for Primaris Vanguard equipment. Perhaps that only applies for CSM chapters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Vanguard/Phobos units are actually exclusive to the 10th company (as the 10th is the Scout company) so your Infiltrators, Incursors, Reivers, Suppressors and Eliminators wouldn't be in Company's 3 to 9. We'll have to wait for confirmation on the Bladeguard seeing as they have appeared in a GW picture in Deathwing colours to see which company they belong to. Not quite. The Vanguard units are the ONLY fully-trained Astartes in the 10th company (outside of Company Command), but that's not the ONLY company they're in. Any company that has Primaris can have Vanguard units in it because every single Primaris Marine goes through the training to be a Primaris Vanguard. Essentially, should a mission call for it, the 10 Squads in a Battle Company could all swap out their armour and armaments for Primaris Vanguard equipment. Perhaps that only applies for CSM chapters? No. It's for all Chapters that are Codex-Compliant (read: Not Space Wolves). And here's my source: THE VANGUARD Vanguard Space Marines are elite saboteurs, spies and assassins. Equipped with specialist weaponry and sophisticated signal scramblers and clad in sub-patterns of versatile Mk. X Phobos armour, these Space Marines sow fear, disarray and death wherever they tread. Every Primaris space Marine in a Chapter is trained to fight as a Vanguard Warrior, and the 10th Company permanently maintains ten full Vanguard Squads. The Dark Angels have been quick to apply the Vanguard's unique expertise and technologies in the hunt for the Fallen. (Psychic Awakening: Ritual of the Damned, Page 33) Soooo.... Yeah :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) Vanguard/Phobos units are actually exclusive to the 10th company (as the 10th is the Scout company) so your Infiltrators, Incursors, Reivers, Suppressors and Eliminators wouldn't be in Company's 3 to 9. We'll have to wait for confirmation on the Bladeguard seeing as they have appeared in a GW picture in Deathwing colours to see which company they belong to. Not quite. The Vanguard units are the ONLY fully-trained Astartes in the 10th company (outside of Company Command), but that's not the ONLY company they're in. Any company that has Primaris can have Vanguard units in it because every single Primaris Marine goes through the training to be a Primaris Vanguard. Essentially, should a mission call for it, the 10 Squads in a Battle Company could all swap out their armour and armaments for Primaris Vanguard equipment. Perhaps that only applies for CSM chapters?No. It's for all Chapters that are Codex-Compliant (read: Not Space Wolves). And here's my source: THE VANGUARD Vanguard Space Marines are elite saboteurs, spies and assassins. Equipped with specialist weaponry and sophisticated signal scramblers and clad in sub-patterns of versatile Mk. X Phobos armour, these Space Marines sow fear, disarray and death wherever they tread. Every Primaris space Marine in a Chapter is trained to fight as a Vanguard Warrior, and the 10th Company permanently maintains ten full Vanguard Squads. The Dark Angels have been quick to apply the Vanguard's unique expertise and technologies in the hunt for the Fallen. (Psychic Awakening: Ritual of the Damned, Page 33) Soooo.... Yeah :lol:ThisReivers ARE Vanguard units too but they were always part of the Battle Companies from the start About Bladeguard we know now that they are DW members but as Vanguard are 10th Company but can be also Battle Company maybe we Will be se to field them as part of a Battle Company too in a Company Veterans role or maybe primaris CoVets will be a different unit and Bladeguard will be DW ONLY Edited June 18, 2020 by Master Sheol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Wait what. Where did we learn bladeguard are Deathwing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Wait what. Where did we learn bladeguard are Deathwing?On GW 40K page they put a photo of bone armoured Bladeguard with DW badge on the shoulder pads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtariOnzo Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Well that opens a whole new bunch of possibilities and controversies, while also throwing the Bladeguard as Company vets out the airlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Well that opens a whole new bunch of possibilities and controversies, while also throwing the Bladeguard as Company vets out the airlock And now we have an article confirming it: But what if you’re more into a bone-coloured look? The sharp-eyed among you may have noticed some Deathwing transfers in Saturday’s reveal and this is why – the Bladeguard Veterans are part of the Dark Angels’ legendary 1st Company, having earned hard-won trust of the Inner Circle.*** Woe betide any member of the Fallen when these guys come knocking. *** And the robes fit right in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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