BitsHammer Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 So a post 3rd founding Black Crusade then. Still pretty instrumental in running the Imperium for sure. I think I'm going to need a cork board and some string to work out Dorn's timeline to fit in the War of the Beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 i was very sure he disappeared in the first black crusade. And as I like the idea that Dorn is still leading the imperium i dont think GW will work out that smart thing. Look how bad the Primaris are established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 i was very sure he disappeared in the first black crusade. And as I like the idea that Dorn is still leading the imperium i dont think GW will work out that smart thing. Look how bad the Primaris are established. Primaris, like most plot notes GW gives us lacked depth the BL bpoks are dping just fine fleshing out. I don't like the idea of Secret High Lord Dorn because it doesn't mean with any of the other plot details about where he vanished, nor with Guilliman's return and the Emperor's reaction of seeing a returned Primarch. Plus if we have a loyalist Primarch on Terra already then he failed to respond to the War of the Beast as well as the Daemon incursion when Guilliman returned as well as the War of the Beast. It doesn't fit Rogal "Duty First" Dorn to neglect such serious threats. I had a thought: it'd be interesting to see Dorn return as a Dreadnought. Magos Takatus 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kraskor Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 I had a thought: it'd be interesting to see Dorn return as a Dreadnought. That would be very cool. With an absolutely mega chainsword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 a Monster Dreadknought^^ no, i really prefer the idea of a zealous Dorn. There is a new story that Guilliman recover a secret in a shrine world. There is a loyal Word Bearers Dreadknought hidden 10k years. It would be so great if there would be connections to Dorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 a Monster Dreadknought^^ no, i really prefer the idea of a zealous Dorn. There is a new story that Guilliman recover a secret in a shrine world. There is a loyal Word Bearers Dreadknought hidden 10k years. It would be so great if there would be connections to Dorn It has connections to Guilliman who put the Dreadnought there under the control of an proto-Ecclesiarchy, no Dorn for this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boldthreat Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 So a post 3rd founding Black Crusade then. Still pretty instrumental in running the Imperium for sure. I think I'm going to need a cork board and some string to work out Dorn's timeline to fit in the War of the Beast. Oh it’s fascinating to think about. I’m going off memory... What we know is that Dorn “dies” in a Black Crusade. We also know he is alive long enough to outlive his other brothers... and for sure outlives Guilliman when he instituted the 3rd Founding. The War of the beast (fact check me, memory) is 1000 to 1100 years post Sigismunds death and the return of Chaos. So we can somewhat assume that the third founding takes place after the 1st Black Crusade, as that’s the only event that would seem to justify the expansion of Imperial Space Marines. My assumption is that there is a difference between Abbadons Black Crusades, and Black Crusades from other warlords. I would assume that Dorn pushes Abbadon back into the Eye. He spearheads the 3rd Founding at a time when many warlords enter the imperium to ape Abbadon. During this time of uncertainty and demons from the past... Dorn is seen as hero, savior and God and he hates that idea. He dies in one of the last battles of the Black Crusades and the Imperium starts to become very political and lazy in the period between this and the War of the Beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boldthreat Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 i was very sure he disappeared in the first black crusade. And as I like the idea that Dorn is still leading the imperium i dont think GW will work out that smart thing. Look how bad the Primaris are established. Primaris, like most plot notes GW gives us lacked depth the BL bpoks are dping just fine fleshing out. I don't like the idea of Secret High Lord Dorn because it doesn't mean with any of the other plot details about where he vanished, nor with Guilliman's return and the Emperor's reaction of seeing a returned Primarch. Plus if we have a loyalist Primarch on Terra already then he failed to respond to the War of the Beast as well as the Daemon incursion when Guilliman returned as well as the War of the Beast. It doesn't fit Rogal "Duty First" Dorn to neglect such serious threats. I had a thought: it'd be interesting to see Dorn return as a Dreadnought. What I believe, is that Dorn believes so much in what he’s doing, that he would believe his duty was indeed to stay in the shadows and trust in his sons and the Last Wall Protocol. It’s a stretch and it’s a fan theory for sure. But I think Dorn is the kind of leader that trusts his subordinates completely... and is utterly devoted to the path his sets in motion... regardless of the ramifications. It’s just fun to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Dorn was gone by The Beast Arises, which is why I don't buy the ghost in the machine idea at all. I don't believe that he would just stand by with an Ork Attack moon hanging over Terra, the Imperial Fists Chapter reduced to a single marine, and Vulkan running the show alone. BitsHammer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Dorn was gone by The Beast Arises, which is why I don't buy the ghost in the machine idea at all. I don't believe that he would just stand by with an Ork Attack moon hanging over Terra, the Imperial Fists Chapter reduced to a single marine, and Vulkan running the show alone.Agreed. His duty is to protect the Imperium, and even if he buys into a "by any means necessary" mentality as proposed he would be the first on that attack moon the second it appeared over Terra, as well as the first to quash any attempts to take his Last Wall company off of Terra. Dorn is definitely "off the table" somehow pre-War of the Beast and will likely return someday since he's one of the mpre popular loyalist Primarchs. The questions that remain are "what prevented his return after that Black Crusade?" and "how will he return?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kraskor Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 But I think Dorn is the kind of leader that trusts his subordinates completely... and is utterly devoted to the path his sets in motion... regardless of the ramifications. Even after he was so clearly wounded by his finest son? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boldthreat Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 But I think Dorn is the kind of leader that trusts his subordinates completely... and is utterly devoted to the path his sets in motion... regardless of the ramifications. Even after he was so clearly wounded by his finest son? Possibly. We have no idea yet how that relationship plays out. Heck we don’t even know if Sigismund is of Dorn’s lineage anyway ;) But I think Dorn is the kind of leader that trusts his subordinates completely... and is utterly devoted to the path his sets in motion... regardless of the ramifications. Even after he was so clearly wounded by his finest son? Possibly. We have no idea yet how that relationship plays out. Heck we don’t even know if Sigismund is of Dorn’s lineage anyway ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Where does that come from now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boldthreat Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Where does that come from now? It was tongue in cheek. I was referencing how it’s been officially confirmed now that the 7th and 13th legions absorbed marines from the lost legions. As far as I know Sigismunds lineage has never been questioned. But the opportunity to say otherwise is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Where does that come from now?It was tongue in cheek. I was referencing how it’s been officially confirmed now that the 7th and 13th legions absorbed marines from the lost legions. As far as I know Sigismunds lineage has never been questioned. But the opportunity to say otherwise is there. Errr.... No it hasn't. It's pure speculation, and in the case of the XIIIth, outright lies said by the Word Bearers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Of course its unquestioned because it is stated Sigismund was the first captain when Dorn was found on invit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boldthreat Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Where does that come from now?It was tongue in cheek. I was referencing how it’s been officially confirmed now that the 7th and 13th legions absorbed marines from the lost legions. As far as I know Sigismunds lineage has never been questioned. But the opportunity to say otherwise is there.Errr.... No it hasn't. It's pure speculation, and in the case of the XIIIth, outright lies said by the Word Bearers. You need to read “Chamber at the end of memory”. Rogal Dorn and Guilliman were the ones to fight for the marines being absorbed into their respective legions. And they are also the ones who came up with the plan to mindwipe themselves over it. This is official. These two legions absorbed marines from the lost legions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boldthreat Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Of course its unquestioned because it is stated Sigismund was the first captain when Dorn was found on invit. Can you point me to that source? Not that I don’t believe you, I just have never seen that myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 I think Dorn would be very much reminded about how he treated Sigismund and would be very guilty. I think he would be mad about primaris, especially ones in the IF, but changes his mind after seeing BT primaris in action. If Dorn came back, I would rather see a pivot to him mainly leading BT or do a semi last wall, by organizing his successors into semi permanent crusades for a period of time like Indomnitus. Less sane ideas- While I will always stan for Abaddon, would love to see Dorn go Bane style and just break Abby's spine on his knee for killing Sigismund. Of course Abby lives, but his rep takes a hit. Cue meta plot of AL that activate after hiding out as a UM successor chapter to attack Dorn to make things difficult for Bobby + Dorn. Then in the third act/arc/book, Dorn Vs Perty- I'll allow a draw because well, no one wants to see their primarch lose or die in the current time line and GW can milk that forever lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Of course its unquestioned because it is stated Sigismund was the first captain when Dorn was found on invit. Can you point me to that source? Not that I don’t believe you, I just have never seen that myself. I have to search where I have that from but i am absolutly sure that Sigismund is from Terra and used to be already the First Captain of the Imperial Fists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boldthreat Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Of course its unquestioned because it is stated Sigismund was the first captain when Dorn was found on invit.Can you point me to that source? Not that I don’t believe you, I just have never seen that myself. I have to search where I have that from but i am absolutly sure that Sigismund is from Terra and used to be already the First Captain of the Imperial Fists I know that the Legion Commander prior to the discovery of Dorn on Inwit was Mathias. But I am not aware of Sigismund being from that era. The Templars weren’t even a thing at that time, as they were instituted by Dorn. I wonder if all the mind wiped marines from the Lost Legions believed they were from Terra as well? I don’t know. It’s fun to think about. Sheds some light on the Soul Drinkers and the White Templar’s though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Maybe this fluff is a retcon. Cant find it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kraskor Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 Do we think he would reverse the splitting of his Legion, or leave it as is? I reckon it could be something in between, a bit like Guilliman has going. Ultrasmurfs were already getting around the chapter limit through scouts, shipbound marines etc, and now with Indomitus it is all very hard to nail down exact numbers. Dorn has the political nous to avoid putting the 'Legion' label out there, but if all the IF successors are crusading together... he's effectively done it without 'doing' it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I mean Dark Angels are basically still runninf a Legion, and with how many times the Blood Angels have reorganized successors into their chapter to recover from being almost wiped out it's safe to say that the Imperial Fists and their successors are the among the closest to the letter of the law on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 The Fists aren't even the original Fists. They are entirely constituted from their successors donating marines to remake the chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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