Brother Kraskor Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Well met brothers, I seek your counsel. As the title, how useful have you found Combat Doctrines (and our super doctrine) in games? Do they have a big impact? Or do you think it's worth it to sacrifice those doctrines to get chaff via allies. Get some cheap numbers down to beef the army out a bit and hold objectives while the battle brothers storm the enemy. Is that an unwise trade in your opinion? Interested to hear your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) our doctrine is extremly bad and so most times is better to have another detachment at the moment as long they are space marines - 3 thunderfire cannons + Captain as Imperial Fists with 1rerol to wound relic for example. Its possible that the new units will change that if you can get rerolls to hit and +1 to hit in addition. If you want Imperial guard as ally then the normal doctrines are too good not to have Edited June 27, 2020 by Medjugorje Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kraskor Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share Posted June 27, 2020 Ok, so while the BT doctrine is fluffy but not great the regular doctrines are too good to pass up really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Ok, so while the BT doctrine is fluffy but not great the regular doctrines are too good to pass up really? -1 ap in each phase is absoltely bad ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gendo Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) Where can I read about the doctrines? Took a break at vanilla 8th codex in which we only had Chapter tactics (?) and struggle to piece all the extra bits together... Would be useful as I'm still debating about adding to my BTs or getting a thematic detachment assuming we don't get new codex right away in 9th? Edited June 27, 2020 by Gendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Base doctrines are pretty useful. Our super-doctrine is basically meaningless. If your codex doesn't contain doctrines, it is probably the outdated one. Marines got two codexes in 8e, one early on, and another last August. Brother Kraskor and Gendo 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gendo Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) Base doctrines are pretty useful. Our super-doctrine is basically meaningless. If your codex doesn't contain doctrines, it is probably the outdated one. Marines got two codexes in 8e, one early on, and another last August. Worth getting the new Codex now? What about Faith and Fury? Planning in getting some games as soon as we're allowed here but probably won't be before 9th ed. Edit: From what I get Faith and Fury is worth it even for just a few pages of BT content but don't want to buy new books that could be obsolete in 2 months... Edited June 27, 2020 by Gendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 we all dont know what will happen but I think Faith and Fury is still worth it. Gendo 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kraskor Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 Where can I read about the doctrines? Took a break at vanilla 8th codex in which we only had Chapter tactics (?) and struggle to piece all the extra bits together... Would be useful as I'm still debating about adding to my BTs or getting a thematic detachment assuming we don't get new codex right away in 9th? I've found an extremely useful online resource for a lot of this stuff, as it gets updated with FAQs and erratas - doesn't replace the feeling of cold steel (err... paper) in your hands but helpful nonetheless: http://games-workshop.ru/wh40k8ed/factions/space-marines/ You will find Combat Doctrines under the general Abilities of marines, and then further BT rules under BT Detachment Rules. And then on top of that we have Chapter Tactics - the BT one is pretty good I think! Better than the doctrine anyway. Gendo 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gendo Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Where can I read about the doctrines? Took a break at vanilla 8th codex in which we only had Chapter tactics (?) and struggle to piece all the extra bits together... Would be useful as I'm still debating about adding to my BTs or getting a thematic detachment assuming we don't get new codex right away in 9th? I've found an extremely useful online resource for a lot of this stuff, as it gets updated with FAQs and erratas - doesn't replace the feeling of cold steel (err... paper) in your hands but helpful nonetheless: http://games-workshop.ru/wh40k8ed/factions/space-marines/ You will find Combat Doctrines under the general Abilities of marines, and then further BT rules under BT Detachment Rules. And then on top of that we have Chapter Tactics - the BT one is pretty good I think! Better than the doctrine anyway. Thanks, didn't know where to look in there :) Brother Kraskor 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Our super doctrine is meh, and overall I feel combat doctrines if we take a heavy melee focused army + fire support, doctrines in grand scheme is not worth it. HOWEVER The fact we have Crusader Helm and we have ways to make a T1 Charge via advance and charge, Devout Push. Makes them worth it every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kraskor Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 Our super doctrine is meh, and overall I feel combat doctrines if we take a heavy melee focused army + fire support, doctrines in grand scheme is not worth it. HOWEVER The fact we have Crusader Helm and we have ways to make a T1 Charge via advance and charge, Devout Push. Makes them worth it every time. Yeah it's not great. Would like to see Righteous Zeal make a comeback maybe...! What units would you use that T1 charge combo with then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gendo Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Our super doctrine is meh, and overall I feel combat doctrines if we take a heavy melee focused army + fire support, doctrines in grand scheme is not worth it. HOWEVER The fact we have Crusader Helm and we have ways to make a T1 Charge via advance and charge, Devout Push. Makes them worth it every time. Yeah it's not great. Would like to see Righteous Zeal make a comeback maybe...! What units would you use that T1 charge combo with then? Could use a cheap 20 man squad in a line to limit the movement of plenty enemy units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Our super doctrine is meh, and overall I feel combat doctrines if we take a heavy melee focused army + fire support, doctrines in grand scheme is not worth it. HOWEVER The fact we have Crusader Helm and we have ways to make a T1 Charge via advance and charge, Devout Push. Makes them worth it every time. Yeah it's not great. Would like to see Righteous Zeal make a comeback maybe...! What units would you use that T1 charge combo with then? RZ is already a rule. Our chapter tactic (and its not a bad one I think) My biggest hope is that we get anytime "accept any challenge, no matter the odds" back which would help alot (in any form)... because so whe would have good ways to reach close combat ( RZ + Frontline Commander / Canticle of hate) and would perform better in this situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 If our super-doctrine worked on all targets, I'd be perfectly happy with just renaming it to "Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds". Being able to wound Knights with chainswords sounds exactly like what that should do. But "Accept Any Challenge, Unless It's A Vehicle" doesn't have the same ring to it. redmapa 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 I think we need this rule like it was back in 5th edition. Then it would be working well with Knights of Sigismund. Reroll hits on all units in close combat would be great especially no other CC-oriented chapter have that already and it would sepperate us a bit from other cc oriented chapters : BA +1 to wound and +1 attack SW +1 to hit and additional attacks WS +1 D BT need reroll to hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kraskor Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share Posted June 29, 2020 Our super doctrine is meh, and overall I feel combat doctrines if we take a heavy melee focused army + fire support, doctrines in grand scheme is not worth it. HOWEVER The fact we have Crusader Helm and we have ways to make a T1 Charge via advance and charge, Devout Push. Makes them worth it every time. Yeah it's not great. Would like to see Righteous Zeal make a comeback maybe...! What units would you use that T1 charge combo with then? RZ is already a rule. Our chapter tactic (and its not a bad one I think) My biggest hope is that we get anytime "accept any challenge, no matter the odds" back which would help alot (in any form)... because so whe would have good ways to reach close combat ( RZ + Frontline Commander / Canticle of hate) and would perform better in this situations. Ah yes I should've been clearer, I meant like when we would fall back forwards after any shooting casualties! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 would be nice to have a counter charge ability like the old RZ. there is a alternative codex in this forum but sadly I could not find it yet. I think R.Z. used to be after a failed moral check you could consolidate 6" into the enemy what put you into close combat or an extra movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kraskor Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share Posted June 29, 2020 I think R.Z. used to be after a failed moral check you could consolidate 6" into the enemy what put you into close combat or an extra movement. Yes exactly this, and you had to take a moral check after any casualties so shooting at us was counter-productive aha. Glorious days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Our Doctrine might get a little bit of a boost with the new melee units. I just want the multipart kits to have a few more options, for the assault dudes and the sword bros. Gendo 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 the doctine depends on new rules. We will see what the new Ancient will bring us. But our chapter tactics and Stratagems are maybe even better if we take Primaris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gendo Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Our Doctrine might get a little bit of a boost with the new melee units. I just want the multipart kits to have a few more options, for the assault dudes and the sword bros. What do you mean by multipart kits having more options brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Our Doctrine might get a little bit of a boost with the new melee units. I just want the multipart kits to have a few more options, for the assault dudes and the sword bros. What do you mean by multipart kits having more options brother? Compare to Dark Imperium: the models are monopose, and have no loadout options. All the Intercessors have bolt rifles, all the Inceptors have bolters, all the Hellblasters have the rapid fire guns. Later, when these were released as individual boxes with multipart kits, the units gained additional options. Intercessors got two other rifle options (and sergeant melee weapons), Inceptors got a plasma option, Hellblasters got assault and heavy options. Assault Intercessors and Bladeguard conceivably could gain options in their multipart kits as well. For example, Bladeguard might have the option to trade sword and shield for a greatsword or something. Sete and Gendo 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 its very likely that they can have thunder hammers or other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 And if we are lucky enough, Blade Guard could have a sword Bros strat ,and maybe just maybe primaris Crusader squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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