Tactics going forward

[Wolf Lord Loki]

So now we have had time to read through the new strategems and wargear

 

What are peoples thoughts on what's changed and what's not for the Deathguard.

 

I'm interested in Daemon prince's are we going to change how we use them? Mine has dual talons because there was nothing else worth choosing however might sword and heavy spewer work well now?

 

What of our old strategems? Will any of them work well with the new stuff or are we just going to ignore the old?

 

Are we even bothering to try stuff out because in a month or two 9th Edition will drop all it might be all change again anyway?

[Special Officer Doofy]

I mean it is too early to set things in stone but it's never too early to speculate. I have two prince's, one with wings and talons and another with Sword and flamer. I like the new vehicle rules for 9th. Move and shoot heavies no penalty, can shoot in combat and blast weapons in general. Can have 3 PBC's with entropy cannons and the strat for plague weapon and more min damage by a Daemon Prince with arch contaminator and 4++ Daemon engine relic. The tanks can now screen for the prince if they are closer and in 3 inch. That's 3d6 mortars that don't need LoS at 48" and 6 entropy cannons shots at 36", rerolling 1's to hit, reroll wounds, T8 3+/4++/5+++ that can move 8" every turn. Or put flamers on the PBC and just ram them into stuff.

 

The sword and flamer prince has more options now, I like that he can shoot his flamer while fighting. Drones took a small nerf now they can't fall back and shoot, but atleast they can now shoot in combat.

 

No love for a charge mechanic though, so our terminators still generally suck. So far Mortarion is still a giant target.

 

I like that we can give stuff DR. I'm not a fan of FW stuff and neither is my group, but if you're into that you can give DR to our FW dreadnaughts.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Putrid Choir

[jgascoine011]

Blight drones i think took a pretty massive hit with no overwatch and cant shoot after falling back from combat.

Before you could shoot, overwatch, shoot, overwatch etc

Yes you can shoot in combat, but its really not where drones want to be, and will now have to stay in combat longer, with their still pretty crappy probe.

 

PBCs are getting a buff, meaning they can now keep up with your daemon prince and benefit from arch contaminator.

Personally i think giving them spitters, and having them at the front line is the best way to go, screening you terminators/plague marines.

Dont think the 4++ relic is worth it. If they were good in combat them possibly, but as it stands, there are better relics.

if you are taking entropy cannons then the strat is deffinetly worth it, but i BS4+ suuuuuuuucks, even with re-roll 1s. And yea 3D6 shots hitting on 4's gives you around 5 hits (maybe 6 with re-rolling 1s). They are still kind of garbage.

 

Terminators are still stupidly over costed.

Or rather, the 9" deepstrike rule just screws them over. 90% of the time they are dead weight. 

However 10 with combi-bolters and the multi shot strat could help them.

 

As for what i expect to see competitvly.

Probably still double daemon prince with either typhus/necrosius will be the go to HQs

Blob of 20 PM is still best way to run them. Give them Bolters and you can get 80 shots with re-roll to wound, 6s being AP-4 at 30"...but this tactice requires 1st turn

Pox walkers are still not great, and will be used to just fill troops choices.

Foul Blight Spawn is great, expect to see 3 of these. Probably our only good unit

"Competitvly" you will see 1 or 2 Leviathans with DR. Possibly a land raider but unlikely T8 and 2+/5++ will still die

Mortarion will not be taken as he is. Wayyy to many points for something to die turn 1

[Maouw]

Interesting

So far, what could be better between a Daemon prince w wings and dual talons and one with talons and a sword ?

Are PBC with entropy really a viable thing now ?

And should i still look to get a FW Leviathan or now we have strong enough option at range ?

[McElMcNinja]

I think the PBC's have had their damage potential increased, but their hitting potential has stayed the same. With the to hit modifier capped at -1, they will usually be hitting on 5+ (re-rolling 1's with Lord close), with entropy cannons/mortar. Spitters are still auto-hit, but at least can shoot at assailants. With that in mind, I think they are stronger as a screening unit.

 

I have played a couple games now and used the Wormspitter, what a wonderful relic. I've tagged a knight and my deredeos were hitting on 2's re-rolling 1's and all wounds (Arch-Contaminator near by), no more knight. I also tagged a unit of Paladins and my 20 PM's eliminated them.

 

We have options now, real options, which opens us up to playing an army we want. I plan on running the sword DP soon, it can destroy a tank or infantry (with the stratagem), which is nice.

 

I still think our best strat is CoF, I can march my PM's to the center of the board (which is smaller in 9ed) and they can't be touched. Anything that comes within 12" is gone. If they don't charge I can spend 2-3 CP and delete them with grenades. If they charge, thanks to the Blightspawn, I strike first. And I run them as Mortarions Anvil, so if something charges nearby, I can heroically intervene. I also get exploding 6's and against imperium units thats 2 extra hits per 6.

 

If you run Poxmongers, I suggest fleshmowers, they get a 4++ save (with relic nearby) and for a CP are getting wounds back. This goes well with PBC's too, again, many good options for us.

 

I also want to try a huge unit of Possessed with DR and add in a Daemon detachment with say Nurglings (who can be brought back at full health) for screening so I can use CoF on them. A Poxbringer included for +1S, just to help them. And hit their target with the Wormspitter so their attacks count as plague weapons so they can benefit from Blades.

 

I also want to try a dual fist hellbrute giving him 5++ and DR, crazy.

 

The only unknown for me is how mission secondaries will be useful. I've seen a couple places where they have said secondaries are more tailorable to your army and play style. This could benefit us even more, I'm very excited for this new edition.

[Special Officer Doofy]

It's also worth to note that bloat drones can now shield a Daemon Prince with Wings thanks to the new character rules.

[McElMcNinja]

Plus with Drones you can shoot while in combat, so I think the only thing missing is an extra overwatch attack. The could be crucial in some games, so I don't want to sound like it's not a big deal, but it's better then nothing. Depending on which company they are in, cuz for a CP they can retreat and shoot.

 

I am not sure if I want to try out the PBC's as a screen, I shouldn't have sold them on the eBay. Well it gives me another chance to paint so I can't complain too much.

 

But I am running 3-20 man units, 1 PM's and 2 Poxwalkers, so I will test out the new coherency rules (which I am in favor of).

 

Will give updates later.

[jgascoine011]

It's also worth to note that bloat drones can now shield a Daemon Prince with Wings thanks to the new character rules.

 

They could always do that no?

[jgascoine011]

Plus with Drones you can shoot while in combat, so I think the only thing missing is an extra overwatch attack. The could be crucial in some games, so I don't want to sound like it's not a big deal, but it's better then nothing. Depending on which company they are in, cuz for a CP they can retreat and shoot.

 

I am not sure if I want to try out the PBC's as a screen, I shouldn't have sold them on the eBay. Well it gives me another chance to paint so I can't complain too much.

 

But I am running 3-20 man units, 1 PM's and 2 Poxwalkers, so I will test out the new coherency rules (which I am in favor of).

 

Will give updates later.

 

Yea but you dont want your drones in combat,

They took away a rule that made them half decent and gave them a rule that they would rather not have, and took away overwatch...but gave it all back to tau lol.

 

My big problem with drones now is why take them over PBC.

The only thing they have over them is fly, which is now not such a big deal.

 

If they could be taken in units of 3, and if DG had access to daemon forge, then possibly i could see then with the heavy blight launchers being viable

Or if the probe was not so pathetic.

 

Honestly, deathguard see to be getting more and more screwed over by 9th.

PBCs got a slight buff, but still suck. Honestly, against a knight 3 of them (with arch contaminator) do an average of 6 wounds. For half the points i could take a unit of havocs which do an average of 14 wounds (with the right strats etc)

Characters (which DG have loads of) are now easier to target

Poxwalkers cant protect back lines/flanks as good now

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

 

It's also worth to note that bloat drones can now shield a Daemon Prince with Wings thanks to the new character rules.

They could always do that no?

No. Only infantry in 8th could protect characters with 9 or less wounds. I mean you could try and LoS block them, but that was it. With the new character rules in 9th, vehicles and monsters can shield characters with 9 or less wounds as long as they are within 3" and closer to the firing unit. Infantry need 3 or more models now to even be able to shield a character.

[jgascoine011]

 

 

 

It's also worth to note that bloat drones can now shield a Daemon Prince with Wings thanks to the new character rules.

They could always do that no?

No. Only infantry in 8th could protect characters with 9 or less wounds. I mean you could try and LoS block them, but that was it. With the new character rules in 9th, vehicles and monsters can shield characters with 9 or less wounds as long as they are within 3" and closer to the firing unit. Infantry need 3 or more models now to even be able to shield a character.

[jgascoine011]

Pretty sure that’s wrong.

Character with less than 10 wounds can’t be targeted unless it’s the closest enemy unit. Don’t have the rule book on me but I’m sure it doesn’t say anything about infantry

[TrawlingCleaner]

I've given the book a good read through and considering what other factions got and what we already had, I'm very pleased with the new stuff. There are some things that I think need to not be strats and baked into our rules, namely the strat to upgrade a Lord of Contagion, upgrade entropy cannons, giving IA to something and giving DR to something.

 

Something I'd like to see in the next codex is for GW to just roll the LoC and the Chaos Lord (both varients) together, it solves the problem of not having many options for Re-roll ones and gives us something more unique.

 

I was already building a CQB themed list but kept many of the ranged elements because the melee side lacked a lot of help. With these new strats I'll be leaning more heavily into melee which I think is going to be the most fun way to play them. I already ran a Tallyman in every game and I now have even more reason to, exploding 6s on axes and flails really gets me going. If we assume that the capped modifier for hitting and wounding is net +/-1 then Blades of Putrification and VoLW isn't a combo going into 9th, which is a shame but BoP is still a viable power.

 

With the normal space marine landraider staying at the same points level while other things in their army getting very large points increases, I am hopeful for our units. I can see PM not moving in points cost as a normal tactical marine is now 15 pts and an intercessor is now 20. There's hope for Morty too I think, with the revisitation of PL I can see his dropping a little and hopefully his points too.

[Special Officer Doofy]

Pretty sure that’s wrong.

Character with less than 10 wounds can’t be targeted unless it’s the closest enemy unit. Don’t have the rule book on me but I’m sure it doesn’t say anything about infantry

Man I think you're right, I don't for the life of me remember why I had a print out of the short handed rules and I thought I said infantry. I got the digital rulebook but didn't feel like going through it, but Google came up with nothing about infantry. That would have been nice to know for alllll of 8th edition haha.

[jgascoine011]

 

Pretty sure that’s wrong.

Character with less than 10 wounds can’t be targeted unless it’s the closest enemy unit. Don’t have the rule book on me but I’m sure it doesn’t say anything about infantry

Man I think you're right, I don't for the life of me remember why I had a print out of the short handed rules and I thought I said infantry. I got the digital rulebook but didn't feel like going through it, but Google came up with nothing about infantry. That would have been nice to know for alllll of 8th edition haha.

Hahahahaha

[helterskelter]

The to wound rolls in 9th are capped at +1/-1, i need to rethink a shenanigan involving a buffed plague surgeon, or just repurpose him

[Zombs]

Things I'm interested in:

- Marine blob with warptime and extended granade range

- Mechanized list with PBCs, Drones 

- Rhino rush with DR on them and 5++ invo from the relic

- Marines in a drill with 12" range bombardment from deepstrike

- Hybrid hellbrutes/dreadnoughts/decimators ALL with DR

 

There is a lot that can be done, finally we have some variety. 3 best companies are Poxmongers (for 4++), Morty's sons (for the surgeon, the relic and the strat) and Wretched (cuz insane buffs to psychic and summoning).

 

CURRENT PROBLEM: we need so many CPs. Using more than 1 detachment is penalizing. Can't ally with daemons (but can summon a poxbringer).

 

All in all, it will be an interesting edition. We also prolly get a codex update in the future I think.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Ironically morti might help as warlord he brings extra command points

[Coolbeans]

Ironically morti might help as warlord he brings extra command points

I don't think he brings any extra command points. The Detatchment your warlord is in is free from my understanding, it's just the Supreme command Detachment changed. So if you had Typhus in a Battalion as a warlord, that Detatchment is free instead of command points. Battalions have no room for a Lord of war, so if you want to bring Mortarion you need another Detatchment.

 

In short it's a way to bring Mortarion as your Warlord without penalizing you. I just found this out myself last night. If they didn't do that, if you make morty warlord, then the main Detatchment would cost CP.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Coolbeans

[brother_b]

Blast weapons have me reconsidering some of my units in this army, specifically pox walkers. In my other armies, like GSC, I’m also having a second thought about my large units of infantry. Any thoughts on mitigating the threat? For plague marines the 20 man unit is not that palatable now without heavy CP investment.

[happyslugger]

20 man units of PMs will now require cloud of flies every turn (they did already I know). Poxwalkers I suppose still could be used as screens, but perhaps just to hold backfield objectives and/or try and use terrain.

 

I for one am thinking about how best to use Morty with the new reserves rules. Expensive investment of CP but at least he can survive turn one now (even if it's only because he's hiding somewhere off the board).

[McElMcNinja]

Because Poxwalkers are immune to moral, I think they are still viable in larger groups. Losing 6 from 20 or 3 from 10, I would rather have 14 still on the table versus 7 (sorry papa). My opponents will have to dedicate enough firepower to kill more as well, which means they aren't shooting at other things.

 

20 PM's is still how I will be running them, CoF cost 1 CP and I get one back every turn. Plus with the CP cost of some other stratagems I plan on using, the more models that get to benefit from them the better. I am equipping them all with bolters except for 2 flails. I'm going to spend the CP for the pistol instead of multiple CP per phase to make their shots plague weapon. I might spend a CP to extend the range of the pistol to 20", but after I'm in the middle of the board I shouldn't have to.

 

Just my thoughts.

[jgascoine011]

How about 18 Plague Marines in a Kharybdis Assault Claw with a Putrifier and a lord with arch contaminator.

18 D6, S4 D2 shots hitting on 3's, re-rolling 1s. re-rolling to wound with doing mortal wounds on a 5+....lol

[McElMcNinja]

When do you choose a plague company, is it during list construction or pre-battle?

[jgascoine011]

When do you choose a plague company, is it during list construction or pre-battle?

 

List construction