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9th Ed: Unit Coherency Changes


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#1
Joe

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Some unit coherency changes coming up.


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#2
toaae

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For those wondering what effect that change has, it forces "conga" lines to alternate ranks of one and two models, which results in an effective decrease of 33% of the length a unit can stretch.

 

As point out below, a line already has each model within range of two other models, except for the ends. By placing two models on each end, you meet the requirements of this new rule, meaning it's not a huge change.

 

EDIT 2: With the reveal of the Coherency check, my original point is good again!


Edited by toaae, 29 June 2020 - 04:44 PM.

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#3
Sarges

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For those wondering what effect that change has, it forces "conga" lines to alternate ranks of one and two models, which results in an effective decrease of 33% of the length a unit can stretch.

Or simply add one model from each side. So almost nothing really changes.
Q2sIsGu.png


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#4
Cleon

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For those wondering what effect that change has, it forces "conga" lines to alternate ranks of one and two models, which results in an effective decrease of 33% of the length a unit can stretch.

 

I don't think it does, it just means their needs to be a little bump on the end. For example unit:

1-2-3-4-5-6
2, 3 4 & 5 are all in range of two models because there is one either side.



#5
Vanger

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THe new coherency rule is just there to make conga lines shorter and limit how far you can stretch out a unit with adding models to it.


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#6
toaae

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For those wondering what effect that change has, it forces "conga" lines to alternate ranks of one and two models, which results in an effective decrease of 33% of the length a unit can stretch.

 

I don't think it does, it just means their needs to be a little bump on the end. For example unit:

1-2-3-4-5-6
2, 3 4 & 5 are all in range of two models because there is one either side.

 

 

Yep, I see that now. It'll work to limit one large unit from having multiple tendrils spread out, but it doesn't do a lot for the "conga" line.


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#7
BolterZorro

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LOL, Ibet that the rule of coherency was written by a guy thinking "while posing the miniature one by one, the miniature must be 2" of 2 others blablabla". Resulting the text we now know. But as a result, never he wrote "while posing". So, the rule doesn't change much the infine lines...(except for the extremities). BIG LOL.



#8
Sarges

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For those wondering what effect that change has, it forces "conga" lines to alternate ranks of one and two models, which results in an effective decrease of 33% of the length a unit can stretch.

Or simply add one model from each side. So almost nothing really changes.
Q2sIsGu.png

 

New rule will make much more sense if they'll add something akin to the check in the end of Battleshock Phase in AoS. In conjunction this should really kill conga lines.
3g9M550.png


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#9
Sarges

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New rule will make much more sense if they'll add something akin to the check in the end of Battleshock Phase in AoS. In conjunction this should really kill conga lines.
3g9M550.png

 

 

 

Huh, call me Ahriman from now on.
EpMJTue.png


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#10
Avicenna

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If you have a 10+ strong unit of models in a conga line with a cluster of three at the ends (like the diagram earlier in this thread), and you kill one of the end guys, do you then start removing models until you get to less than 6 models as each time you remove a model the next one is no longer in coherency??



#11
Bonzi

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That kills the barbell idea for conga lines. If you remove one of your barbell models at the end of the line then you have to remove more models until the unit is back in 2" coherency...meaning if you take of one model on the end of a barbell formation you would keep picking up models until you reached the other end of the barbell or dropped below 6 models. RIP conga, you're going to have to double up your lines so unit coherency checks don't decimate your squads.
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#12
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New rule will make much more sense if they'll add something akin to the check in the end of Battleshock Phase in AoS. In conjunction this should really kill conga lines.
3g9M550.png

 

 

 

Huh, call me Ahriman from now on.
EpMJTue.png

 

I would love to see this combined with some sort of rule that required you to remove only visible models as casualties, which would further make Conga Lining dangerous, since all it would take is LOS on one model to eliminate half a unit.  Put some actual strategy to unit formations and targeting and all.


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#13
Lagrath

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Between the smaller table sizes, smaller army sizes, characters sticking to squads, and the suddenly increased difficulty of spreading out units, deep strike is now so much better. Unless your opponent has a bunch of large single model units that are all very spread out, or a bunch of very mobile units with large unit sizes (unlikely with new blast rules), your opponent's army is now going to be a lot more clumped together on the table when you deep strike next to it. No more spreading out a bunch of little screen units on a big 4x6 table with all the juicy stuff protected from deep strike deep within an onion of different units.



#14
Avicenna

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Between the smaller table sizes, smaller army sizes, characters sticking to squads, and the suddenly increased difficulty of spreading out units, deep strike is now so much better. Unless your opponent has a bunch of large single model units that are all very spread out, or a bunch of very mobile units with large unit sizes (unlikely with new blast rules), your opponent's army is now going to be a lot more clumped together on the table when you deep strike next to it. No more spreading out a bunch of little screen units on a big 4x6 table with all the juicy stuff protected from deep strike deep within an onion of different units.

It also makes area denial bubbles (eg Infiltrator Omni Scramblers) worth more



#15
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Excuse my dimness, I've just woken. What's the impact of the coherency changes?

#16
Lemondish

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New rule will make much more sense if they'll add something akin to the check in the end of Battleshock Phase in AoS. In conjunction this should really kill conga lines.
3g9M550.png



Huh, call me Ahriman from now on.
EpMJTue.png
I would love to see this combined with some sort of rule that required you to remove only visible models as casualties, which would further make Conga Lining dangerous, since all it would take is LOS on one model to eliminate half a unit. Put some actual strategy to unit formations and targeting and all.
With the new Unit Coherency Check rule, you don't need a conga line to be out of LOS. You'll just pick up models until it's down to 5 models.

#17
Kain Mor

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Between the smaller table sizes, smaller army sizes, characters sticking to squads, and the suddenly increased difficulty of spreading out units, deep strike is now so much better. Unless your opponent has a bunch of large single model units that are all very spread out, or a bunch of very mobile units with large unit sizes (unlikely with new blast rules), your opponent's army is now going to be a lot more clumped together on the table when you deep strike next to it. No more spreading out a bunch of little screen units on a big 4x6 table with all the juicy stuff protected from deep strike deep within an onion of different units.

It also makes area denial bubbles (eg Infiltrator Omni Scramblers) worth more

That ability was already obnoxious before. And I don’t see how smaller table size makes deepstriking better- on the whole it would make it harder to come in around screening.

The coherency change definitely helps with that though.

#18
Lemondish

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Excuse my dimness, I've just woken. What's the impact of the coherency changes?


Essentially, no more conga lines of units with 6+ models.

#19
toaae

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Excuse my dimness, I've just woken. What's the impact of the coherency changes?


Essentially, no more conga lines of units with 6+ models.

 

No more single-file lines. You can still reach 66% of the length by chaining 1:2:1... models.


WAAAGH!!! Tortoof, a WiP thread (updated: 7/12/20) ||| Order of the Penitent Saint: A Project Thread (updated: 6/7/2020)
[IG 2020]Index Imperialis: Order of the Penitent Saint // IA: Dune Vipers (WiP; updated: 10/17/19, v.1) // [IG 2020]Index Xenos: WAAAGH!!! Tortoof (WiP; updated: 5/10/2020)
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#20
Dulahan

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New rule will make much more sense if they'll add something akin to the check in the end of Battleshock Phase in AoS. In conjunction this should really kill conga lines.
3g9M550.png


 

Huh, call me Ahriman from now on.
EpMJTue.png
I would love to see this combined with some sort of rule that required you to remove only visible models as casualties, which would further make Conga Lining dangerous, since all it would take is LOS on one model to eliminate half a unit. Put some actual strategy to unit formations and targeting and all.
With the new Unit Coherency Check rule, you don't need a conga line to be out of LOS. You'll just pick up models until it's down to 5 models.

 

I've been seeing it pointed out elsewhere this doesn't shorten things too much though, since you can just put a couple units on each 'end' of the line and still be fine via the rules.  Possibly an anchor here and there within for the big 30 strong units.  That's where I can still see it happening more often than not.  Sure it'll be 4-5 units less long than before, but that's still a pretty long line, and unless the unit is split in half by a LOS target rule and thus really has to struggle to get back to coherency.



#21
01RTB01

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I'll just keep using the apoc unit trays then. CBA with shenanigans anyhoo
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#22
toaae

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I've been seeing it pointed out elsewhere this doesn't shorten things too much though, since you can just put a couple units on each 'end' of the line and still be fine via the rules.  Possibly an anchor here and there within for the big 30 strong units.  That's where I can still see it happening more often than not.  Sure it'll be 4-5 units less long than before, but that's still a pretty long line, and unless the unit is split in half by a LOS target rule and thus really has to struggle to get back to coherency.

 

 

Not quite. That worked before they revealed the coherency check, but now that we know that detail, we know the "bow tie" method of having two models on the end will result in you having to pull models until there's only 5 left. You'll have to alternate 1:2:1 to get the longest line possible.


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#23
Lemondish

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I've been seeing it pointed out elsewhere this doesn't shorten things too much though, since you can just put a couple units on each 'end' of the line and still be fine via the rules. Possibly an anchor here and there within for the big 30 strong units. That's where I can still see it happening more often than not. Sure it'll be 4-5 units less long than before, but that's still a pretty long line, and unless the unit is split in half by a LOS target rule and thus really has to struggle to get back to coherency.

The thing is, the moment that unit takes a single casualty, it will no longer pass the check, and you lose everything until it reaches the 5 model breakpoint.

In other news, movement tray sales are likely to go through the roof (I kid...sort of).

Edited by Lemondish, 29 June 2020 - 04:51 PM.

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#24
jbaeza94

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heres how the congline will suffer (especially in large units)

first we have a unit that is in coherency
Start

it would only take 1 dead model to destroy that coherency
Damage

because the end model is no longer within coherency, it is also removed
Damage 1

and so on
Damage 2

until you only have 5 models, which no longer requires you to have 2 models in range for coherency.
Final



conga lines are a dangerous thing know. you can potentially lose 25 gaunts to subpar shooting that should have only killed 1

Edited by jbaeza94, 29 June 2020 - 05:14 PM.

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#25
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If you have a 10+ strong unit of models in a conga line with a cluster of three at the ends (like the diagram earlier in this thread), and you kill one of the end guys, do you then start removing models until you get to less than 6 models as each time you remove a model the next one is no longer in coherency??


Looks like it!

 

 

Where does this conclusion come from? The only time coherency rules can "kill" a model is when models are being added to a unit. Outside of that specific (and pretty rare) context, there's no mention of models ever being removed due to coherency violations. 

 

The only thing that would happen if kills put a unit out of coherency is that, when the unit next moves, it must end that move in coherency. 

 

 

 

 
because the end model is no longer within coherency, it is also removed 
 
and so on
 

 

Same deal - the assertion that models out of coherency must be removed is nonsense. It doesn't say that anywhere, except in the specific context of adding models to a unit. Blue Horrors are the only units ever likely to be killed by coherency rules.  


Edited by Shinespider, 29 June 2020 - 05:05 PM.

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