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Full Leak of New Rules


Valerian

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Enjoy: https://m.imgur.com/a/J4Bygoq

 

1.  One big thing that we hadn't seen yet is that Wound rolls are also capped at max of +1/-1 modifiers (just like Hit rolls, that we already knew about).  

 

2.  Another slight change:  If a model in target unit (for either ranged or melee attack) has already lost any wounds, or has already had attacks allocated to it this phase, the attack must be allocated to that model.  In the past you had to allocate attacks to models in a unit that had already been wounded, but now you also have to keep allocating to a specific model, even if that model already made saves; it is a small change, but super easy to miss.

 

3.  Each model in the unit must finish its pile-in move closer to the closest enemy model (I believe this is a change from just the first model moved.  Now they all have to finish closer).  This could force you to move into Engagement range of a unit that you haven't Charged, too.  Same requirement for the Consolidate movement - each model has to finish its Consolidation move closer to the closest enemy.

 

4.  A model can fight if it is in Engagement Range of an enemy unit, or if it is within 1/2" of another model from their own unit that is within 1/2" of an enemy unit.

 

5. Whether from shooting or close combat, all attacks you have declared are always resolved against the target unit even if, when you come to resolve an individual attack, no models in the target unit remain in range.  In other words, you can't pull models in such a way as to keep part of an attacking unit that hasn't gone yet from getting their attacks.

 

6.  Big Change - you can now target models that performed a Heroic Intervention, even if you didn't declare a charge on them.  No more Characters getting to attack with no risk.

 

7.  Players alternate taking Morale tests for any units that have suffered casualties this turn.  Once all units have taken Morale tests, conduct Unit Coherency Checks.

 

8.  Objective Markers recommended to be 40mm in diameter, and you measure to and from the closest part of the marker (instead of from the center).  You're in range of an objective marker if you're within 3" horizontally and 5" vertically.

 

9.  Looks like no more Seize the Initiative.

 

10.  Battle fixed to 5 Battle Rounds (n more random chance to keep going).

 

11.  Limit of 3 Detachments for a Strike Force sized game (1001 to 2000 points).

 

12.  Vanguard, Spearhead, and Outrider detachments all cost 3 CP (same as a Battalion, before you get your Warlord Refund).

 

13.  Infantry, Beasts, and Swarm units can move through the walls, etc., of 'Breachable' terrain.

 

14.  Infantry, Beasts, and Swarm units receive the benefits of Cover from Area Terrain features (Ruins, Woods, Craters, etc.) while they are within it.

 

15.  Infantry, Beasts, and Swarm units receive the benefits of Cover from an Obstacle (Barricades, Ruined Walls, other Debris), while models are within 3" unless there is unobstructed LOS from attacking model.

 

16.  Exposed Position - models can gain benefit of Cover when behind a piece of Terrain with this trait, but not while on top of it (for example, those big Containers).

 

17.  Scalable - only  Infantry, Beasts, and Swarm models and models that can Fly can be set up or end a move on top of an a terrain feature with this trait, or on upper floors of Area Terrain with this trait.  Other models (such as Cavalry) can be set up or end their move on the ground floor only.

 

18.  Command Re-Roll limited to: Hit, Wound, Damage, Save, Advance, Charge, Psychic Test, Deny the Witch Test, or roll for number of Weapon attacks.  Can no longer be used to keep a Vehicle from Exploding, or Morale, etc.

 

 

Otherwise, so far, I haven't run into any changes that hadn't already been discussed or published by the Warhammer Community folks. 

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1.  One big thing that we hadn't seen yet is that Wound rolls are also capped at max of +1/-1 modifiers (just like Hit rolls, that we already knew about).  

 

 

 

Poor little CSM. I would still cap it at +2/-2, but 6 is always a success.

 

2.  Another slight change:  If a model in target unit (for either ranged or melee attack) has already lost any wounds, or has already had attacks allocated to it this phase, the attack must be allocated to that model.  In the past you had to allocate attacks to models in a unit that had already been wounded, but now you also have to keep allocating to a specific model, even if that model already made saves; it is a small change, but super easy to miss.

 

 Didn't get this one. Can you please give an example how would it affect games?

 

4.  A model can fight if it is in Engagement Range of an enemy unit, or if it is within 1/2" of another model from their own unit that is within 1/2" of an enemy unit.

 

 

So new charge rolls would be even harder to pass? Great "buff" to close combat.

 

6.  Big Change - you can now target models that performed a Heroic Intervention, even if you didn't declare a charge on them.  No more Characters getting to attack with no risk.

 

 

Bad for GK. I use HI alot.

 

9.  Looks like no more Seize the Initiative.

 

10.  Battle fixed to 5 Battle Rounds (n more random chance to keep going).

 

 

What a relief. I hated these stuff so much. 

 

2.  Vanguard, Spearhead, and Outrider detachments all cost 3 CP (same as a Battalion, before you get your Warlord Refund).

 

 

RIP.

 

 

18.  Command Re-Roll limited to: Hit, Wound, Damage, Save, Advance, Charge, Psychic Test, Deny the Witch Test, or roll for number of Weapon attacks.  Can no longer be used to keep a Vehicle from Exploding, or Morale, etc.

 

 

This means, no rerolling bad roll on d6 smite/vortex MW. But, you cannot reroll things like "deny on 4+", reviving celestine, rerolling failed Agents of Vect roll and other annoying stuff. I never was a fan of command reroll and I like this nerf to it. We'll have to get used to it.

 

I like the changes to terrain too. It has become way more consistent and we can declare which effects each piece will have, or any at all. 

 

And I second my question here: are we able to get CP for empyrean domination and stuff like "Priority target neutrolized" in the same turn?

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I don't think having to assing an attack to a model you already attacked makes any difference in practice. Having to attack with weapon with the same profile in batches is quite significant.

 

Engagement range is not 1/2" from an enemy. If you read the rules about which models can attack, its "model within engagement range OR  within 1/2" of a model within 1/2". Since they want to prevent units from being unable to be attacked if they are in an elevated possition, I'm assuming engagement range is not necessarily 1/2" (at least not vertically). Also, probably some units have special rules that improve their engagement range. If you read the rules about heroically intervening, you can heroically intervene if an enemy model is within 5" vertically but only move 3", meaning the engagement range can't be 1/2" in all cases.

 

The change to heroic intercention is probably beneficial to us, actually. Since we keep our characters very close to our units, and their overwatch potential is minimal, the opponent could just declare the character as an additional target for free, so they could attack them anyway. For us, if some enemy character with good shooting power threatened to heroically intervene onto our charging unit, it was not worth to choose him as an additional target because we would take unnecessary overwatch damage, so they could just heroically intervene for free, but now that's not possible. Also, there's a significant amount of units that can heroically intervene 6" instead of 3", and it's very possible that they are far enough from your main target that you can't declare them as charge targets but they can intervene anyway, so that's also pretty good for us.

 

The change to command reroll is great in general, but makes it a lot worse for charges and psychic tests, so that's bad for us. However, I think other armies lose more from the change than we do.

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Yeah, Engagement Range is still 1” horizontally, but now also 5”vertically. So, no change to charge ranges.

 

Corvus, the in-game affect of that one subtle change would be in units with mixed saves. So, for example, in a Grey Hunter pack with a Wolf Guard Pack Leader in Terminator Armor with a Storm Shield. If someone shot at that unit with a Lascannon, I might normally want to assign that wound to the WGPL and try to Tank it with the shield. But then maybe I’d prefer to let a bunch of Bolter shots just go to the Grey Hunters, as they still have a decent chance of surviving, while the TDA leader would be more vulnerable to a bunch of AP0 attacks.

 

Now, however, if you assign the Lascannon wound to the Leader to try to tank, even if he saves, you now have to assign all further wounding hits to him for the rest of the phase (or until he dies, then they’d be assigned to Hunters.)

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Now, however, if you assign the Lascannon wound to the Leader to try to tank, even if he saves, you now have to assign all further wounding hits to him for the rest of the phase (or until he dies, then they’d be assigned to Hunters.)

 

 

 

I get it now, thank you! Glad that ER is still 1" too.

 

By the way, I haven't found a restriction for a single psyker to cast smite more than once per phase. If it is indeed gone, it would be a huge buff. However, we may lose our "ignore +1 to WC" rule.

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Good observations. I hadn't thought about units with "tank" models, since both our attack and defense is quite homogeneous. While a significant change for the game in general, I don't think it affects us much either way. We will have slightly better information when it comes to assign an attack to a stave model or a regular one, but the difference is minimal.

 

It's also true that, as of now, there's no restriction in the number of smites a unit can cast per turn. I imagine they consider that the cumulative +1 to cast is enough to avoid smite spam. While is rare that we want to spam smite with our characters (particularly now that we will be more limited by points and detachments), having extra options is always good.

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The is kind of ambiguous. The rule talks about abilities that let you gain or regain a CP when someone uses a stratagem or spends CP, so that would allow Empyrean domination to add an extra CP on top of that, but the reminder says " you cannot gain or refund more than one CP per turn" and only battle-forged army bonuses and the CP you gain each command phase are exempt.

 

I'd say that the rule itself is what matters, so RAW you can gain that extra CP with Empyrean domination.

 

Also, rules as written, and if they don't change the datasheet, Draigo now has a 2+ superinvulnerable (it even ignores stuff like null zone) save.

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I'd say that the rule itself is what matters, so RAW you can gain that extra CP with Empyrean domination.

 

 

 

Looks like it, because core rules states, that rule itself>reminder. Guess, this would be faqed, but if not, we can combine it with Xenos Inquisitor with 5+ CP return trait. 

 

 

Also, rules as written, and if they don't change the datasheet, Draigo now has a 2+ superinvulnerable (it even ignores stuff like null zone) save.

 

 

 
Yeah, I am a Seraphon player in AoS. I know this trick thanks to bastiladon. 
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Also, rules as written, and if they don't change the datasheet, Draigo now has a 2+ superinvulnerable (it even ignores stuff like null zone) save.

 

Every unit currently with a Storm Shield will get Errata'd to the new version.  That'll give Draigo (and everybody else with a Storm Shield in Terminator Armour) at 4++ Invulnerable Save, and a 1+ Save (regular/Armour Save).  As the new rules give the Invul, as well as a +1 to the Save characteristic (which is the final digit in the stat block for every unit.

 

Of course, a roll of a 1 is an Auto Fail, but it still makes a difference in that Draigo would still get his 2+ Armour Save against an AP-1 Bolt Rifle (whereas right now, that'd be a 3+ save).  And, if he were in terrain with the Light Cover trait, he'd even get his 2+ Save versus AP-2 weapons (like that same Bolt Rifle in the Tactical Doctrine).

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Of course, a roll of a 1 is an Auto Fail, but it still makes a difference in that Draigo would still get his 2+ Armour Save against an AP-1 Bolt Rifle (whereas right now, that'd be a 3+ save).  And, if he were in terrain with the Light Cover trait, he'd even get his 2+ Save versus AP-2 weapons (like that same Bolt Rifle in the Tactical Doctrine).

 

 

That's not exactly how 1+ save works. Only unmodified rolls of 1 are always fails, but not modified rolls of 1. Since you cannot modify rolls below 1, any roll, which is not natural 1, will be reduced to modified 1, which is still technically a success, because 1=1+. Save is passed.

 

I think, this will be FAQed.

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Does the AP of a weapon reduce the Save Characteristic, or the Save roll?

 

If its the Save Characteristic then there is no issue. If it's the Save roll then gamers will point out that there is no way to roll a -1, -2, -3 on D6. Essential meaning to fail a Save roll is a straight 1 and nothing else.

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Of course, a roll of a 1 is an Auto Fail, but it still makes a difference in that Draigo would still get his 2+ Armour Save against an AP-1 Bolt Rifle (whereas right now, that'd be a 3+ save).  And, if he were in terrain with the Light Cover trait, he'd even get his 2+ Save versus AP-2 weapons (like that same Bolt Rifle in the Tactical Doctrine).

 

 

That's not exactly how 1+ save works. Only unmodified rolls of 1 are always fails, but not modified rolls of 1. Since you cannot modify rolls below 1, any roll, which is not natural 1, will be reduced to modified 1, which is still technically a success, because 1=1+. Save is passed.

 

I think, this will be FAQed.

 

 

I'm tired from hiking all day, so I may not be following your explanation correctly.  Is it your position that unmodified rolls of 1 (e.g. a "natural" 1), or when you roll the dice and look down and it is a 1 is still a fail?  

 

But, with, for example, an AP of -5, because it affects the dice roll, and not the Save, you could roll for example a 3 and still pass, (because a 1+ is a save, if it was modified to get there?  and you can't modify to below 1?)

 

Am I following the logic correctly now?  If so, yeah, I reckon it'll need a FAQ.  Unless, of course, there is some language somewhere in the 9e rules that we haven't seen yet that treats 'dice', 'rolls,' or 'modifiers' differently than 8e did.  

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Does the AP of a weapon reduce the Save Characteristic, or the Save roll?

 

If its the Save Characteristic then there is no issue. If it's the Save roll then gamers will point out that there is no way to roll a -1, -2, -3 on D6. Essential meaning to fail a Save roll is a straight 1 and nothing else.

 

Save roll in 8e.  I can see if the leaks say anything different about 9e later, but I'm exhausted right now.

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That's correct. Storm shields modify the save characteristic to 1+, AP modifies the save roll, but can't modify it to anything less than a 1, so every save roll is successful, except for natural 1s, since those always fail.

 

In 8th edition, a 1+ WS characteristic is possible, and a faq confirms that, indeed, it ignores all negative modifiers. In AoS, it's also possible for units to get a 1+ save and, again, confirmed via faq, they effectively ignore rend (AoS name for AP)

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Ah, cool, thanks. I’m tracking the issue now. Obviously that makes Terminators with Storm Shields pretty durable. Effectively giving them all a 2++ Invulnerable. Wow.
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