Squats retuning?

[Daynga-Zone]

Love the necromunda squat models they’ve come out with so far so I’d be down. Still think they should focus on updating the factions they have a bit more. Eldar sculpts, more Tau allies, new Orks, guard etc before we see more new factions. I like the idea of them being sprinkled in as abhumans in the guard and admech though.

 

Plus my wallet could use a break after indominitus. Let the Xenos buy some fancy new toys for my Eradicators to... eradicate

[Joe]

 

 

I thought it was Alan Merrett who hate vetoed squats (amongst many other things including Knights and Gene cults) though? Entirely possible ive gotten mixed up over the years ofc

According to an interview with Jervis Johnson back in the days of the 2nd edition, everyone involved in wh40k decided that squats were a bad idea and should not come back, so it's not just Alan or Jes.

 

EDIT: link http://www.40konline.com/index.php%3Ftopic%3D70533.0&ved=2ahUKEwiHif-khrLqAhVCwcQBHZAKCgEQFjADegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0hsJX6BCiN-PtPa0x2oOe4

Jes gave a response at one of the Q&As in 2017/18 as well which re-iterated his dislike for Squats, and, I quote; "a shared view amongst the design team even now." I wouldn't be surprised if "no Squat codex" is a rule of thumb at this stage. Edited July 3, 2020 by Jarl Caldersson
Removed off topic portions

[Sete]

It's a nice teaser, and I hope its stays like that. Just a teaser. Would not mind the odd squat mini around, but an army? With the Imperial Guard infantry waiting for a refresh?

 

Nah.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Jarl Caldersson
Removed off topic portions

[chapter master 454]

Would like to see the dwarves return. To be honest, the Kharadon Overlords from AoS look as near a 40k unit as you can get within that universe (just they use steampunk instead of dirty...Dieselpunk I suppose it would be).

 

I mean, not like we are trying to be original here with 40k. Why they shouldn't be spat out by the Cicatrix Maledictum with Timey-Wimey explanation would be a breeze.

 

That or just give them are part of a Tau supplement for their Auxiliaries.

[Doghouse]

I think if they did bring them back I'd personally like to see them as the Demiurg. The concept that was floated around was pretty cool.

 

I think if they brought back true Squats then they would be best served as either an abhuman auxilaries in the Guard or as Tau allies. I have very fond memories of my RT Squat army and even now I think the plastics are fantastic after all this time. But I think the final nail in the coffin for them was the Biker squat theme, once second edition came around no one really wanted to touch them at the studio from what I was told at the time and they made a brief return with the heavily WFB influenced Epic Squats.

 

If I had my way I'd make them alien but based them on the original helmeted squat seen below but make them true aliens beneath the armour. I think this is more likely a joke qoute.

 

 

[templargdt]

Thumbs down on bringing back the squats.  Terrible name, dwarfs but in space is bleh.  

[Marshal Loss]

Almost certainly just one of those nuggets that will never turn into anything

[dogfender]

I hope to god not. Leave them dead. Introduce some sort of other alien faction or for the love of all things not space marines, update the other factions

[BitsHammer]

[

 

Space Dwarves are very much a thing I'd like to see in 40k, but let's go the Khardron Overlord route: let them harness the warp without being psykers, Make them a race of mercenaries, and get weird with their design.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Jarl Caldersson

[Medjugorje]

money will decide it. But at first GW have to look what their costumers want. And the Horus Heresy shows that they want Space Marines more then anything else. Maybe they will learn much more about their own costumers now since release of 8th edition... Edited July 3, 2020 by Jarl Caldersson

[Jarl Caldersson]

This is not the place to discuss what players have suffered most. This also isn't a place to bash another person faction or sub-faction whatever the circumstance is. We all love our armies and will take greater pain when slighted, while others outside that faction will not take the grudge. Be respectful.

 

-Jarl Caldersson

[Ishagu]

I would prefer GW gave us the Demiurg race, just so it isn't another Imperium faction whilst also paying homege to Fantasy dwarves.

[ThePenitentOne]

If you count Techmarine Grombrindal, we have 3 40k squats.

 

Kharadon Overlords are the litmus test for the return of squats. Many of them are steampunk enough to just drop into 40k as is. If this faction sells well and is beloved by those who have played it, squats really do have a chance.

 

I never played them, and I don't remember how the rules worked exactly, but I do remember that their armies were emboldened and empowered by living Ancestors. I think Ancestor worship has a lot of potential to become something more detailed, and I think it gives them something beyond just Dwarves in space- if handled properly. 

 

Also, I like bikes. I think it would be cool if squat bikes were better bikes than others; not so much clones of Primaris bikes, but maybe their edge could be endurance rather speed or killiness. Maybe the bonus is linked to the Ancestor carried into batlle by the squad.

 

But what I really want squats for are those giant trains- I forget what they were called, and the models themselves weren't terribly detailed, so they would need a redesign. But I feel like Ancestors + Bike + Gigantic Land Train gives us enough character and design space for something that does become more than a cliche.

 

The other thing about squats; from their perspective, if they felt betrayed by the Imperium, I could see them being embraced as Tau auxiliaries.

 

Are there other things I'd like to see more?

 

Probably. I really want to see updates and options for existing factions- and Xenos in particular- before we add a new army. I want Finecast gone. I'd like to see every faction without an aircraft get one (talking GW official here- Forge World is another conversation). Importantly, I don't particularly need or even want armies who already have one to get a new one- the point here is leveling the playing field. Ditto on Super Heavy and ditto on Supreme Commander (Whatever that turns out to be).

 

What hoped for with 8th was expansion and diversity, and I am very happy with what I got from 8th- my two favourite armies in my entire 31 year gaming career were Sisters and GSC, so there you go. I know both Death Guard and Thousand Sons can use more love this eddition, and I hope they get it. But those are new factions- 8th gave us all of that. And oh, please... Deliver unto me the Emperor's Children and a Legion of Unholy Noise.

 

I want to see how Primaris handle the brown note as played by a Noise Marine dread.

 

My wish for 9th is abasolutely the same. And for the record, 9th has already delivered a hammerblow for Xenos augmentation. I get it- you can't release a new edition without scads of new Marines (because apparently the world would explode), but I really hope non marine development follows the release wave; other factions need to catch up a bit, and some need to catch up a lot.

[Jarl Caldersson]

Probably not.

Jes Goodwin has gone on record regarding his incredible dislike for Squats and desire to never see them return as an army, and ultimately any new miniature ranges pass through him for authorisation - the book authors have no input into what future miniature projects or armies are either. In all likelihood it's a throw-away reference to an old army that's better off dead.

 

Then again, it could happen. Who knows?

Wasn't Jes the same person that said SoB wouldn't come back as they weren't profitable? It may have been another person. Either way individual employees can say what they want, but when CEO or committee say "do this" the employees will do it. There has been many beating the drums asking for squats, much like SoB, and all it takes is those in power to say "do this".

[BitsHammer]

 

Probably not.

Jes Goodwin has gone on record regarding his incredible dislike for Squats and desire to never see them return as an army, and ultimately any new miniature ranges pass through him for authorisation - the book authors have no input into what future miniature projects or armies are either. In all likelihood it's a throw-away reference to an old army that's better off dead.

 

Then again, it could happen. Who knows?

Wasn't Jes the same person that said SoB wouldn't come back as they weren't profitable? It may have been another person. Either way individual employees can say what they want, but when CEO or committee say "do this" the employees will do it. There has been many beating the drums asking for squats, much like SoB, and all it takes is those in power to say "do this".

 

Citation needed on that one. I've never seen an official stance on Sisters not getting updated for so long, just a lot of fan theory.

[Joe]

Wasn't Jes the same person that said SoB wouldn't come back as they weren't profitable? It may have been another person. Either way individual employees can say what they want, but when CEO or committee say "do this" the employees will do it. There has been many beating the drums asking for squats, much like SoB, and all it takes is those in power to say "do this".

Jes was the person that stated they were looking at the SoB way, way back at the Open Day in 2015 - which was the first we ever heard of a range rework for them. "It'll take time for them to return" was the rough statement.

 

That aside, I think you misunderstand how Geedub operates now. Senior management took a massive step back from interfering in the direct affairs of the studio (beyond encouraging them to pursue profitable ventures and largely handling licensing agreements) in the aftermath of Kirby's mistakes between 2007-2014. The various studio leads still hold the cards when it comes to what projects they'll pursue in the end.

[Slayer le Boucher]

Probably not.

 

Jes Goodwin has gone on record regarding his incredible dislike for Squats and desire to never see them return as an army, and ultimately any new miniature ranges pass through him for authorisation - the book authors have no input into what future miniature projects or armies are either. In all likelihood it's a throw-away reference to an old army that's better off dead.

 

Then again, it could happen. Who knows?

Thank the Emperor we have Jes Goodwin as Guardian of what is Holy and Pure to preserve us of this heresy.

 

Hate Squats.

[DeadFingers]

Regardless of whether Jes Goodwin said that about Sisters or not, I think there's a big difference between "we're not doing X because it's not profitable" and "we're completely against doing X". The first one sounds like they'd be willing to do it if there is interest, while the second implies that it's not something they're willing to do even if there's an interest.

 

The push for Sisters of Battle was kind of an anomaly. It seemed like, when the survey came around, a vast amount of people from all over the community said "we want Sisters", no matter which faction they actually collected. It was like a snowball that had been getting larger and larger as the years passed and everyone saw a faction that was still playable but just barely, with ancient, metal models, just languishing in a corner, largely ignored. But they were right there for everyone to see, and that was a very large factor towards getting a lot of people on their side. Plus, it really seemed to me like thay already had intentions to tackle their revamp, and the survey just made them speed things along.

 

Squats on the other hand haven't existed since 2nd Edition, as least as a playable faction, so I doubt they can gather the amount of traction Sisters did. For example, if GW were to do another survey right now, I'd say that Craftworld Eldar would gather the vast majority of the votes from the community, followed by Guard, Nids, Emperor's Children/World Eaters and maybe Orks too. Unless a lot of people got together and decided to cast a meme vote for a laugh, and I doubt that people would waste their votes like that, I don't see a barely existing faction that hasn't been played in over 20 years getting the traction Sisters did.

Edited July 4, 2020 by DeadFingers

[Shinespider]

Given that there's always going to be a finite amount of time and energy to pour into new models, I'd prefer if that were not directed to.. squats. 

[templargdt]

Regardless of whether Jes Goodwin said that about Sisters or not, I think there's a big difference between "we're not doing X because it's not profitable" and "we're completely against doing X". The first one sounds like they'd be willing to do it if there is interest, while the second implies that it's not something they're willing to do even if there's an interest.

 

The push for Sisters of Battle was kind of an anomaly. It seemed like, when the survey came around, a vast amount of people from all over the community said "we want Sisters", no matter which faction they actually collected. It was like a snowball that had been getting larger and larger as the years passed and everyone saw a faction that was still playable but just barely, with ancient, metal models, just languishing in a corner, largely ignored. But they were right there for everyone to see, and that was a very large factor towards getting a lot of people on their side. Plus, it really seemed to me like thay already had intentions to tackle their revamp, and the survey just made them speed things along.

 

Squats on the other hand haven't existed since 2nd Edition, as least as a playable faction, so I doubt they can gather the amount of traction Sisters did. For example, if GW were to do another survey right now, I'd say that Craftworld Eldar would gather the vast majority of the votes from the community, followed by Guard, Nids, Emperor's Children/World Eaters and maybe Orks too. Unless a lot of people got together and decided to cast a meme vote for a laugh, and I doubt that people will waste their votes like that, I don't see a barely existing faction that hasn't been played in over 20 years getting the traction Sisters did.

Probably true.  The clock meme aside, I don't personally know anyone that is really interested in a squats return to the game.  There was obviously demand for a full sisters line, entire ranges of alternative minis were created to meet the demand.  

 

I think it would make a lot of sense for GW to just let them stay in the background like this and flesh out the existing ranges.  Introduce something new when you need to.  

[Lord Marshal]

Plus, it really seemed to me like thay already had intentions to tackle their revamp, and the survey just made them speed things along.

 

 

I still hold to the belief that Sisters were always going to land when they did (early 2020) whether or not there was a Community Survey. They've been open on several occasions that the turn-around time for new armies is about four years. The idea that they somehow rushed the whole Sisters line through in half the time in response to that seems way too far-fetched to me.

 

More likely the Survey response was more like a very happy coincidence, or perhaps even a deliberate one with a predictable outcome? I mean it's not as if people have been quiet about wanting a refreshed Sisters line prior to it. 

[Kierdale]

I really hope it’s Squats!

[Lexington]

Been wondering when that would happen. Maybe it’s just a stray bit of text, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re on the docket for 9th at some point.

[Dracos]

I know it's been 25 years but I swear there was an Intellectual Property issue. Something about the "creator" of the Squat concept wasn't under Citadel property rights obligation and for some reason left or was let go, but when he did the rights to the Squats went with him. There was more about trying to get them developed elsewhere but it never panned out. I assumed that's why they weren't just dropped but actually taken out of and/or rewritten in reprinted novels such as the Draco Novels (yep that's were I got my name from) after 20 years of non-use I'm thinking the property rights became public domain (you see it in comic books alot) and GW started using them on occasion recently. Considering their legendary status and the communities ability to   about anything, it's my guess they don't want that heat and have been trying to develop unique properties unrelated to (Aliens, Starship Troopers, Skynet, DnD, Gundam, etc) so Space Dwarf army? Hard pass by GW I assume.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Dracos

[Lord_Starscream]

I should also point out, unlike people who were asking for more Sister's support, I genuinely don't think that the overwhelming majority of people meming to get Squats back, actually want Squats, or know what they'd be getting, or how it'd, in my opinion, diminish the game even moreso from how silly it's already become.

 

I think there is a reason why the creative team claims they don't want to bring them back as a faction, and I think it's sincere. Do an army of ratlings, really seem all that appealing? To me the answer is no. I'm not always the most in-tune with the community, but I don't think there is genuine support for this, and I think that where as Sisters will be an ongoing success, I really doubt Dwarves would be, in the setting of 40k, and I'll be honest,  again, I think it'd not be good for the setting or the overall perception of the game.