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9th Edition and you! What are you thinking about changing?

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#26
Rune Priest Ridcully

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This is going to sound petty, but the more I see people play TS in 9th, and the more I play 9th, it's starting to feel like very few playtesters (if any) really concentrated on Thousand Sons.

 

The Psychic phase has been turned down just from the baseline rules changes (Command Re-roll, Detachment Rules, can't cast after fall back, protecting characters, etc).

 

Conversely, armies with very good troops and a low requirement on support entities like HQ's, look really good. Astra, AdMech, Custodes, (so far) look good, and play well.

 

Armies hit by my personal qualifiers include: Grey Knights, Thousand Sons, Eldar, etc. (those top heavy armies which are especially hit if siding with a heavy psychic design element)

 

I don't think Chaos Space Marines are much better off because of their similarities in list design, however they do have some decent mid range shooty choices which I still think Thousand Sons are greatly reduced in. (The Psychic phase has historically been our shooting phase). Add on top of this we have lost our ability to Smite at WC5 with our mono faction.

 

So where are our apparent strengths for 9th? Bodies of decent infantry. Powerful Psykers (If left unchecked). But oddly we have to be careful about Close Combat if we look at our historically 'strong' builds. Let's remember not too long ago -every- half decent "Thousand Sons" army list seemed to revolve around Ahriman + 2 Psykers in a Supreme Command, and then put a functional army / faction in the other 1600 points you have left over. 

 

If the troops are where it's at for Thousand Sons, I almost think we have to adopt our HQ's to pure close combat. That sounds crazy, but retreating from Close Combat (falling back) is death for us.... I've tried it. 

 

Here's the conundrum: you want to stay in CC to start casting. However, by doing so you are almost certain to get peeled apart by Astartes, Custodes, Nids... fill in the close combat nightmare of your meta.  No one in their right mind would argue our infantry is close combat capable, except perhaps... Goats (ugh). 

 

Bear with me  here, but what I'm suggesting is we might be entering an edition where we have to be able to keep SoT, Rubrics, Goats in CC, and keep a real 'wrecking ball' HQ in there with them. Trust me, I've felt it first hand, we can't push back strong, or elite CC infantry without it. BUT if you're hitting back like a truck with Daemon Princes, and an Exalted Sorc with Seer's Bane, and/or loading up on Diabolic Strength more often.... Daemonic Talons, perhaps the Tzeentch sword that removes invluns? (Can we take that in Thousand Sons?... I know I did, but not sure if it was legal.)

 

Anyway, that's my overall assessment. Last edition my HQ's were more or less paper, but it didn't matter. I think this edition the whole army has to be engaged... not only to keep your HQ's untarget-able but also help push back with heavy counter attacks, because we aren't out shooting/ Pskyering anyone to death. The psychics have turned to utility and damage. It's a game of board control now.

 

(P.S. What I would do for psychically capable Dreadnoughts in this edition!)

Yeah, I'm thinking we are going to be relying a lot more on the likes of hellbrutes and contemptors just for the close combat punch and more damage two.
It's the fact we don't really have that much shooting that is more then damage one that is a main issue for us.
The risk with the beat stick HQ's is the defender choosing stuff first, we will have to be careful about that.


  • Prot likes this

Need Snot green paint, will trade bits/pay for it.

QUOTE (Kol_Saresk @ Oct 22 2012, 06:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I love how GW creates the Warp Talon to be some sort of super-powered Raptor, and instead it's become the king-of-all-kitbashes.

gallery_48988_16045_16337.pnggallery_48988_16045_14557.png

#27
BoomWolf

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Problem is, if you are trusting helbrutes and contemptors as your load carriers, why not use a legion that actually gives them a relevant legion tactic?


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#28
DarkPhoenix

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Because sorcerers?
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#29
Rune Priest Ridcully

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Problem is, if you are trusting helbrutes and contemptors as your load carriers, why not use a legion that actually gives them a relevant legion tactic?

Because not many of the legions give that great buffs to them? Because that leads to us pretty much writing off anything but rubrics, scarab occult and gosts with that philosophy?
I'm not saying combat sorcerers don't have a place, just that we do have other units that can do quite nicely (And I admit and contempor with weaver and glamour on it is pretty fun).


Need Snot green paint, will trade bits/pay for it.

QUOTE (Kol_Saresk @ Oct 22 2012, 06:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I love how GW creates the Warp Talon to be some sort of super-powered Raptor, and instead it's become the king-of-all-kitbashes.

gallery_48988_16045_16337.pnggallery_48988_16045_14557.png

#30
Skerr

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I tend to agree Prot. In 8th I gave my Aspirings or anyone else, besides SOT, a flamer pistol for charges, worked great on MCU's holding objectives. Spells and pistol can be used in CC also. Throw in Force Staff and its not too bad if the enemies are not wreck face dedicated cc unit.

Edited by Skerr, 14 July 2020 - 01:30 PM.


#31
Rune Priest Ridcully

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I tended to plasma pistols, but that's more my love of plasma showing up.


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Need Snot green paint, will trade bits/pay for it.

QUOTE (Kol_Saresk @ Oct 22 2012, 06:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I love how GW creates the Warp Talon to be some sort of super-powered Raptor, and instead it's become the king-of-all-kitbashes.

gallery_48988_16045_16337.pnggallery_48988_16045_14557.png

#32
Archaeinox

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I'm very much considering dropping 2 predators and 5 scarabs to try and squeeze Magnus in. 


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#33
Prot

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Well Arch, I always thought you were anti-Magnus (in background) but I wouldn't blame you for trying him now.

 

The thing is I haven't seen anyone do well with him in 9th yet, as early as it is. The table control is so huge now in 9th. I'm just not sure he can keep up unless you're leading a force of cheap stuff that would fade anyway.

 

Lots of Rubrics will have some merit, it's just hard to fit it in now with everything going up.


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#34
Dolchiate Remembrancer

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Well Arch, I always thought you were anti-Magnus (in background) but I wouldn't blame you for trying him now.

The thing is I haven't seen anyone do well with him in 9th yet, as early as it is. The table control is so huge now in 9th. I'm just not sure he can keep up unless you're leading a force of cheap stuff that would fade anyway.

Lots of Rubrics will have some merit, it's just hard to fit it in now with everything going up.

The question im wondering is how many squads of 10(or 9) would be required for ideal board control...3? 4? 5?

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#35
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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My army didn't change much. Lost 2 CP and my foot sorcerer. Did a slight reorganization with the 3 Termie Sorcerers in Cult of Duplicity with the same 3 units of Rubrics and the one Terminator squad, then did a patrol with 3x10 goats and my 1 Daemon Prince with the Crystal for Cult of Magic. Still no wings on the DP. Still going to be all about forcing a mid-table engagement so I can wreck face. Psychic Ritual and Investigate Sites will probably be my friends....."Sure, come over here and stop me. All these lovely Inferno Bolters are just dying to say 'hello'!"



#36
Raven1

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So I've had a thought well a couple actually one of which is bound to be FAQ'd

A) Currently Magnus can come in and Smite 3 (4 with The Great Sorcerer strat) times. While it suffers from the increasing cost. It's up to 4d6 Mortal Wounds

B) Use Sorcerous Facade (Da Jump) on a Defiler and than Daemonforge to re-roll all failed hits and wounds 9.1 inches

Both of these could devastating.

With the new focus on taking and holding objectives I think cult of Duplicity will be a strong contender.

Personally I'm think at 2000 points
A patrol of cult of Magic
A battalion of cult of Duplicity
A Supreme Command with Magnus
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