CSM Utilising Primaris Equipment

[Joe]

A small tidbit from the Crusade section of the upcoming 9E rules - an Iron Warriors warband re-purpose Primaris weaponry for their own purposes.
 

 

I wouldn't take it as a teaser for future models, but it's incredibly sensible fluff - real world militaries quite often re-purpose captured equipment / ammunition when it's possible.

[MasterDeath]

A while ago it was also hinted at, that Fabius Bile is gathering Primaris Gene Seed. Thats a good while ago now. It got less probable at the moment the new CSM models came out.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Its a matter of time until we get some kind of upgrades to keep us to something approaching "par" with loyalists. 

 

It won't be like it is currently forever. GW has some crazy design chops, we will see in the future regarding that. 

[Marshal Loss]

Mixed feelings. It will be interesting to see where GW takes us either way. For now, I'd prefer to see the remaining cult legions & our range filled out and updated before going in any new and unexpected directions

[Lucerne]

I'm just hoping for more wargear for a 2 wound Chosen and more chonky cult Marines.

[Gree]

Chaos Primaris are pretty much inevitable at this point. They've been foreshadowed several times now.

[Khornestar]

IMO it will stay in the realm of the fluff and never on the tabletop.

[Cheex]

I'm just hoping for more wargear for a 2 wound Chosen and more chonky cult Marines.

 

I hope so. We could really do with some Chosen that are more than just special weapons squads.

[Lord_Starscream]

Chaos Primaris are pretty much inevitable at this point. They've been foreshadowed several times now.

 

They should have been the main chaos relaunch.

 

Relaunching oldmarines with new sculpts was a big waste of time, and has left Chaos basically in a pit.

[Lucerne]

Let's be honest, they needed either a 10% size increase in the torso and legs and a 2 wounds instead of 1 statline, or a 5 man Chosen squad with the nice toys.

 

Instead, we're waiting, again.

 

On that note, it's still irritating that AL are better represented as raven guard primaris than by their own codex.

[Cheex]

 

Chaos Primaris are pretty much inevitable at this point. They've been foreshadowed several times now.

 

They should have been the main chaos relaunch.

 

Relaunching oldmarines with new sculpts was a big waste of time, and has left Chaos basically in a pit.

 

 

Not necessarily, I wouldn't be suprised to see:

1. Cultists get split off into their own R&H-style faction
2. Baseline CSM replace them as our cheap Troops units
3. Our Primaris equivalents being Elites with a separate role to the normal CSM (not just CSM with extra weapons)

I'd love to see CSM be given a special Action (e.g. corrupt an objective, gain +10VP and remove the marker or something), to give them the role of objective takers/destroyers, and give Chosen an ability that exemplifies the Legion they serve (e.g. World Eaters fight twice, Alpha Legion can infiltrate without a stratagem, etc) but at 2W and with expanded access to weapons.

 

But maybe I'm wishing a little too hard here.

[MegaVolt87]

I would rather upgrades to existing weapons, new weapon archtypes inspired by Cawls work. The IW guy said "use these to modify our weapons", not make exact copies. All we need is 2W cult troops and 2W chosen with a points bump, Chosen termi's in tartaros / cataphractti / saturine similar to gravis stats. Primaris are not necessary for us at all. Those changes and more GC/HH tech is all we need to differentiate ourselves and give us a rules boost. 

 

EDIT- would like a dark mechanicus character for us who is like a creepy fan/ stalker of Cawl would be interesting. 

Edited July 5, 2020 by MegaVolt87

[Khornestar]

 

 

Chaos Primaris are pretty much inevitable at this point. They've been foreshadowed several times now.

 

They should have been the main chaos relaunch.

 

Relaunching oldmarines with new sculpts was a big waste of time, and has left Chaos basically in a pit.

 

 

Not necessarily, I wouldn't be suprised to see:

1. Cultists get split off into their own R&H-style faction
2. Baseline CSM replace them as our cheap Troops units
3. Our Primaris equivalents being Elites with a separate role to the normal CSM (not just CSM with extra weapons)

I'd love to see CSM be given a special Action (e.g. corrupt an objective, gain +10VP and remove the marker or something), to give them the role of objective takers/destroyers, and give Chosen an ability that exemplifies the Legion they serve (e.g. World Eaters fight twice, Alpha Legion can infiltrate without a stratagem, etc) but at 2W and with expanded access to weapons.

 

But maybe I'm wishing a little too hard here.

 

 

Yeah, probably, but those are still great ideas. I very much doubt cultists are going to be split off into anything, though the fact that they exist in the R&H index could perhaps support that possibility.

 

Your ideas about Chosen are great, and would really make them stand out as something special. I think unless GW releases a new kit for them - which, I feel not totally out of line saying so, would sell like CRAZY - they are unlikely to be touched. Still, there are situations where a single kit can be utilized to create various unit entries. Imperial Guardsmen: Conscripts, Guardsmen, Veterans, Special Weapons squads, etc. There is no theoretical reason Chosen couldn't be viewed the same way using the base CSM kit. After all, we have a flamer/plasma/melta in the CSM box, and if we buy like 6 boxes we'd have all the special weapons we needed (:P), to say nothing of the heavy and melee weapons. 

 

I also feel like because your idea is so simple, and all it would take is some creative rules writing and NOT selling a hot new $60-for-5-models kit, it isn't worth their time, as far as GW is concerned. I feel half cynical and half realistic in saying that.

 

I would rather upgrades to existing weapons, new weapon archtypes inspired by Cawls work. The IW guy said "use these to modify our weapons", not make exact copies. All we need is 2W cult troops and 2W chosen with a points bump, Chosen termi's in tartaros / cataphractti / saturine similar to gravis stats. Primaris are not necessary for us at all. Those changes and more GC/HH tech is all we need to differentiate ourselves and give us a rules boost. 

 

EDIT- would like a dark mechanicus character for us who is like a creepy fan/ stalker of Cawl would be interesting. 

 

 

"I see you like making new inventions. I also like making new inventions. Would you like to play with some of them?"

[Lord_Starscream]

 

 

Chaos Primaris are pretty much inevitable at this point. They've been foreshadowed several times now.

 

They should have been the main chaos relaunch.

 

Relaunching oldmarines with new sculpts was a big waste of time, and has left Chaos basically in a pit.

 

 

Not necessarily, I wouldn't be suprised to see:

1. Cultists get split off into their own R&H-style faction
2. Baseline CSM replace them as our cheap Troops units
3. Our Primaris equivalents being Elites with a separate role to the normal CSM (not just CSM with extra weapons)

I'd love to see CSM be given a special Action (e.g. corrupt an objective, gain +10VP and remove the marker or something), to give them the role of objective takers/destroyers, and give Chosen an ability that exemplifies the Legion they serve (e.g. World Eaters fight twice, Alpha Legion can infiltrate without a stratagem, etc) but at 2W and with expanded access to weapons.

 

But maybe I'm wishing a little too hard here.

 

 

 

Chaos, let's be real, has gotten the shaft, hard, multiple times now, outside of running Monster Mash lists and Possessed Bombs, which are gimmicks.

 

I don't think GW's creative enough to do, what you think they'd do.

 

If they wanted Chaos Primaris to be different, I'd have bluntly said, give them the same structure as current CSM, with Bolt Rifles and 2 Wound models.

 

IE: Twin Heavy Weapons/Assault Weapons per squad, able to be kit for melee or long range fighting. Champion plays a big role in the unit, banners, ect.

 

Don't make them intercessors, as they'd not be, that's not in their doctrine. Make them Chaos Space Marines, but Primaris. Don't give them repulsors, they don't have the tech to maintain that, give them a new tank that they can maintain.

 

But bluntly, normal Marines aren't wanted or needed at this point. They have very minimal purpose on a battlefield, and I am personally sorry to say that. PEQ have basically, through higher wounds, attacks, and most importantly through RANGE, made them completely obsolete. 

[Cheex]

 

Yeah, probably, but those are still great ideas. I very much doubt cultists are going to be split off into anything, though the fact that they exist in the R&H index could perhaps support that possibility.

 

Your ideas about Chosen are great, and would really make them stand out as something special. I think unless GW releases a new kit for them - which, I feel not totally out of line saying so, would sell like CRAZY - they are unlikely to be touched. Still, there are situations where a single kit can be utilized to create various unit entries. Imperial Guardsmen: Conscripts, Guardsmen, Veterans, Special Weapons squads, etc. There is no theoretical reason Chosen couldn't be viewed the same way using the base CSM kit. After all, we have a flamer/plasma/melta in the CSM box, and if we buy like 6 boxes we'd have all the special weapons we needed (), to say nothing of the heavy and melee weapons. 

 

I also feel like because your idea is so simple, and all it would take is some creative rules writing and NOT selling a hot new $60-for-5-models kit, it isn't worth their time, as far as GW is concerned. I feel half cynical and half realistic in saying that.

 

 

I should have specified: my ideas above were predicated on the idea that future releases might build on the established fluff that Bile is experimenting with Primaris organs. A new Chosen (and even Possessed) kit would be the perfect way to represent them, and some simple rules would make them interesting to use.

[Panzer]

Chaos Primaris are pretty much inevitable at this point. They've been foreshadowed several times now.

 

I very much doubt that. GW is doing their best to make loyal Marines and CSM Marines two distinct model ranges instead of CSM being a carbon copy of loyalists again.

[Lord_Starscream]

 

Chaos Primaris are pretty much inevitable at this point. They've been foreshadowed several times now.

 

I very much doubt that. GW is doing their best to make loyal Marines and CSM Marines two distinct model ranges instead of CSM being a carbon copy of loyalists again.

 

 

It's gone fantastically poorly so far. If things keep up the way they are going, Chaos Space Marines will be the least seen army in the game. It's even more likely that they will be by the time they get a 'revised' 9.0 codex, which I expect very little from.

[Special Officer Doofy]

I'm sure rules wise it would help, but I don't want Primaris chaos marines. I don't ever want Primaris with chaos. Maybe make chosen and the four cult marines 2w each and keep basic chaos space marines cheap. Using Primaris equipment pillaged from battle I might be okay with though.

[Coolbeans]

I'm sure rules wise it would help, but I don't want Primaris chaos marines. I don't ever want Primaris with chaos. Maybe make chosen and the four cult marines 2w each and keep basic chaos space marines cheap. Using Primaris equipment pillaged from battle I might be okay with though.

I agree. Chaos does need some love, but I want to get it without Primaris.

[Lord_Starscream]

I'm sure rules wise it would help, but I don't want Primaris chaos marines. I don't ever want Primaris with chaos. Maybe make chosen and the four cult marines 2w each and keep basic chaos space marines cheap. Using Primaris equipment pillaged from battle I might be okay with though.

 

You say that until you don't get them, and you're left monster-mashing up the field. A Chaos Space Marine army with 0 Chaos Space Marines in it, beyond characters.

 

Cheat CSM = useless (or if they are too cheap, too overpowered against non-PEQ)

 

2w cults might sound good, until range is factored in. The real problem is the 30 inches on those Bolt Rifles, combined with -1 AP and Bolter Discipline.

[Panzer]

You say that as if Primaris would solve everything. You do realise that loyal Marines still use plenty non-Primaris stuff, right?

[Lord_Starscream]

You say that as if Primaris would solve everything. You do realise that loyal Marines still use plenty non-Primaris stuff, right?

 

Mostly vehicles. I've not exactly seen a lot of Terminators lounging about.

[Coolbeans]

Well I truely believe (my opinion here, you're free to disagree!) GW wants to legends the old marines, whether that's next edition or 3 editions later. So they want the rules to not be as good. Makes sense. But with chaos they don't have a choice. They just made a bunch of new models this edition and last edition (1k sons, DG and the newer vanilla chaos stuff). They can make chaos relevant again without going Primaris. All last edition chaos players complained. GW probably heard alot of it. I'll wait for the codex releases before I give up on chaos (and GW by that point).

 

And I agree with you Lanparth, if they just magically made chaos marines like Primaris, giving them more range, 2w with another attack, better army wide traits, possibly a mono bonus like doctrines and the secondary traits, chaos would be way better if not running the show. But I don't want Primaris spikey marines. I rather be different. Like Putrid Choir said, maybe some 2w chosen and cult marines, and for basic marines maybe do something with marks again? Obviously better army wide traits too.

[Lucerne]

Honestly, I suspect it'll take longer than 1 edition for them to fix Chaos rules.

 

 

I'm sure rules wise it would help, but I don't want Primaris chaos marines. I don't ever want Primaris with chaos. Maybe make chosen and the four cult marines 2w each and keep basic chaos space marines cheap. Using Primaris equipment pillaged from battle I might be okay with though.

We've already seen that Primaris style armour can be done with chaos with the Havocs.

[Squike]

 

I'm sure rules wise it would help, but I don't want Primaris chaos marines. I don't ever want Primaris with chaos. Maybe make chosen and the four cult marines 2w each and keep basic chaos space marines cheap. Using Primaris equipment pillaged from battle I might be okay with though.

 

You say that until you don't get them, and you're left monster-mashing up the field. A Chaos Space Marine army with 0 Chaos Space Marines in it, beyond characters.

 

Cheat CSM = useless (or if they are too cheap, too overpowered against non-PEQ)

 

2w cults might sound good, until range is factored in. The real problem is the 30 inches on those Bolt Rifles, combined with -1 AP and Bolter Discipline.

 

I agree that what has really killed off marines is the primaris 30” range and AP-1/ AP-2 (turns 2-3). It’s not the two wounds that’s really an issue, yes it does make them more resilient, but it’s the fact there standard weapon shreds our equivalent, I find I’ve lost at least two models before I get in long range, and then my return fire does a wound at best, and then their next round of shooting wipes my unit off the board. 

 

I feel a warp Bolter of some kind could be our equivalent, maybe keep the 24” range but make it strength 5 AP-1, because we ain’t going to get doctrines(or equivalents) ever so that should balance out the extra AP they have access to.

 

i think this coupled with 2W cult and chosen, would be at least a step in the right direction

Edited July 6, 2020 by Squike