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How can you tell if you've cleaned FW resin enough?

ForgeWorld Resin Cleaning

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#1
CMDR_Welles

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I recently got my first Forgeworld kit, and I noticed something odd while I was cleaning the pieces. I was rinsing the model for the final time and I had them in a container of water. I saw there were tiny bubbles on the parts. They were all a uniform size, but I couldnt tell if it was bubbles of air or bubbles of water (while submerged in water).

The process I took to wash the parts:

1) I first let them soak for a few minutes submerged in 91% Isopropyl.
2) I then scrubbed each piece thoroughly with a soft toothbrush.
3) Rinsed with tap water
4) I let them soak for about 10 minutes in a small tub of hot water with Dawn (plain) soap.
5) parts were again scrubbed with a soft Toothbrush in the soapy water.
6) Rinsed with Tap water multiple times.

It was during the final rinsings that I noticed the bubbles. I probably rinsed the parts 4 or 5 times, and each time, they would have these bubbles.

I'm kind of out of my league at this point and could use some advice.

#2
Marshal Loss

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I always wash & scrub FW resin in warm water mixed with detergent. As a general rule if, after cleaning, the resin doesn't appear shiny or feel sort of slimy/"too smooth" to the touch, it's fine. You can usually tell if a piece is going to be problematic because the release agent makes the surface look clear and shiny, almost as if it was gloss varnished


Edited by Marshal Loss, 06 July 2020 - 11:52 AM.

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#3
CMDR_Welles

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I always wash & scrub FW resin in warm water mixed with detergent. As a general rule if, after cleaning, the resin doesn't appear shiny or feel sort of slimy/"too smooth" to the touch, it's fine. You can usually tell if a piece is going to be problematic because the release agent makes the surface look clear and shiny, almost as if it was gloss varnished


That's what I was figuring. The parts are still splotchy shiny, so I can definitely see release in some areas. I'll soak them in Dawn for a longer time this time.

Thanks

#4
Arkhanist

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I always wash & scrub FW resin in warm water mixed with detergent. As a general rule if, after cleaning, the resin doesn't appear shiny or feel sort of slimy/"too smooth" to the touch, it's fine. You can usually tell if a piece is going to be problematic because the release agent makes the surface look clear and shiny, almost as if it was gloss varnished


That's what I was figuring. The parts are still splotchy shiny, so I can definitely see release in some areas. I'll soak them in Dawn for a longer time this time.

Thanks

 

Hopefully another round of cleaning will sort it. Sometimes though the forgeworld resin doesn't cure quite right so it ends up somewhat porous, and you keep getting an oily sheen and feel showing up on the same area even after repeated cleaning rounds, which can then stop it priming properly, i.e. dry spray primer rubs right off with your finger.

 

Although fairly rare, this is known as 'sweating' (example), and given the bubbles it may be what's happening. You'll probably see it on some of the excess resin chunks too, the 'gates'. You should then call forgeworld and they will replace the faulty part (or entire model, sometimes) for free.


Edited by Arkhanist, 06 July 2020 - 06:53 PM.

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#5
Grimoire

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Hot Water ?!?!?! I wouldn't do that. Heat and Resin can be problematic



#6
Fajita Fan

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My telemon dread was super shiny and glassy smooth after multiple scrubs and FW told me to spray it with varnish, then flat black, then gold.  I did this and it passed a gentle fingernail test but I have yet to get around to painting it. I don’t feel like I should have to spray an expensive models with three coats just to get it sticking, this model felt entirely different than my other FW models. 


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#7
Brother Desultor

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I can recommend this product (website link is just where I get it from, other suppliers are available I expect):

 

https://www.hiroboy....uct--2311.html#

 

I use this if the traditional water and detergent method fails to remove those stubborn glossy patches. I've used it on resin models ranging from a Warlord to marine shoulder pads.

 

The abrasive pad you get with the kit is great for larger parts but can be more awkward with the smaller ones, so I just use an old toothbrush.


"The adjective desultory comes from the word desultor, which was a circus rider who would leap from the back of one galloping horse onto another. From this literal sense of jumping from one thing to another, we get the modern meaning of desultory as jumping between things without a logical purpose."

 

This absolutely sums me up when it comes to hobby projects (and forum names)....

 

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#8
CMDR_Welles

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Well, I kept washing it.

Soaked for 24 hours in 91% isopropyl

Scrubbed with a toothbrush

And it was still slick and shiny

So I soaked it in straight Dawn soap for 36 hours

Scrubbed, rinsed, and left to dry

And still slick and shiny

I watched a video and someone was using toothpaste with the scrubbing with a toothbrush aS it usually has a very fine abrasive

I'll give it a try, but I am not very hopefully its going to work

I dont know what to do after that

I can recommend this product (website link is just where I get it from, other suppliers are available I expect):
 
https://www.hiroboy....uct--2311.html#
 
I use this if the traditional water and detergent method fails to remove those stubborn glossy patches. I've used it on resin models ranging from a Warlord to marine shoulder pads.
 
The abrasive pad you get with the kit is great for larger parts but can be more awkward with the smaller ones, so I just use an old toothbrush.


I cant find a USA supplier. I'll try toothpaste and see how it works.

#9
Fajita Fan

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Then your resin surface had something funny go on, this is exactly what I had with a Telemon. While I tried to glue it my superglue would just run out of the joints near the pins and brush on primer just beaded up on the surface. A local experienced FW builder told me to just email them and they’ll replace the parts but instead they told me to use 3 coats of spray to get a painting surface.  One of the coats was varnish with the FW rep telling me varnish wasn’t affected by temperature or humidity despite the can’s label indicating that. 
 

While I love the look of FW stuff there’s not a lot of quality control and I’ll be avoiding it in the future. 


Edited by Fajita Fan, 08 July 2020 - 05:01 PM.

Blame my iPhone for typos because I'm 95% on mobile.


#10
Jukkiz

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Then your resin surface had something funny go on, this is exactly what I had with a Telemon. While I tried to glue it my superglue would just run out of the joints near the pins and brush on primer just beaded up on the surface. A local experienced FW builder told me to just email them and they’ll replace the parts but instead they told me to use 3 coats of spray to get a painting surface.  One of the coats was varnish with the FW rep telling me varnish wasn’t affected by temperature or humidity despite the can’s label indicating that. 
 

While I love the look of FW stuff there’s not a lot of quality control and I’ll be avoiding it in the future. 

I would take video from this and send it to them. If your extra expensive miniatures are not worth the time, money and paint you´re spending, something´s wrong...


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#11
TPS

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One of the coats was varnish with the FW rep telling me varnish wasn’t affected by temperature or humidity despite the can’s label indicating that. 

Actually, those labels aren't really accurate. It's easily possible to get good undercoat results even during fog or slightly below zero temperatures. Just make sure you shake the can well BEFORE you head outdoors.

 

My experiences with the FW customer support have been great so far. I once somehow managed to lose the upper leg of a Leviathan when I was cleaning it. Mailed them and, after sending them a picture of the serial number of the model, had a replacement part in my mailbox a couple days later. Send them a picture, describe the issue and you may soon find yourself in possession of a 'proper' chunk of resin.


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#12
CMDR_Welles

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Then your resin surface had something funny go on, this is exactly what I had with a Telemon. While I tried to glue it my superglue would just run out of the joints near the pins and brush on primer just beaded up on the surface. A local experienced FW builder told me to just email them and they’ll replace the parts but instead they told me to use 3 coats of spray to get a painting surface.  One of the coats was varnish with the FW rep telling me varnish wasn’t affected by temperature or humidity despite the can’s label indicating that. 
 
While I love the look of FW stuff there’s not a lot of quality control and I’ll be avoiding it in the future.


Yeah, I just tried gluing two parts together with superglue and it just beaded up and rolled off.

I'm emailing FW now, not much hope in getting it fixed...

#13
CMDR_Welles

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At this point, I wonder if I should have just purchased Deathwing Cyclones off ebay and used those...

#14
MegaVolt87

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I use warm/tepid water to clean FW kits with dish washing detergent, never had issues. I think using water thats too hot causes problems with the resin. I had to use hot water on a demios rhino panel to get it back into shape, the panel was forever more smooth/slick than the more matte side which was normal for FW resin. Hot/ boiling water seems to not react well with FW resin. In OZ I use the morning fresh dish soap brand in a small amount with warm water + wash cloth, warm rinse. 


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#15
CMDR_Welles

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I use warm/tepid water to clean FW kits with dish washing detergent, never had issues. I think using water thats too hot causes problems with the resin. I had to use hot water on a demios rhino panel to get it back into shape, the panel was forever more smooth/slick than the more matte side which was normal for FW resin. Hot/ boiling water seems to not react well with FW resin. In OZ I use the morning fresh dish soap brand in a small amount with warm water + wash cloth, warm rinse.


What I consider hot, most would find on the warmer side of luke-warm. I'm a winp... msn-wink.gif

Water was not boiling, was "hot" to my bare wrist, and as far as I could tell, didnt soften the resin at all. I dont think that is a factor.

#16
Tyberos the Red Wake

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What you're seeing sounds like an example of sweating resin. You can't get it clean because release agent has been impregnated within the resin and it's still seeping out periodically. It will eventually sweat itself all out but it could take months.

 

Keep in mind sometimes glossy spots are benign. I've had a couple models where you can wash them until they're perfectly clean, your finger actually squeaks and skips on the surface because it's not greasy, and it leaves absolutely nothing on your fingers, but it still LOOKS like it's oily. This is especially noticeable on the bottom of the gates where the resin is extremely smooth and often appears on flat, wide surfaces.

 

It sucks, FW used to be real good about stuff like this and would have just sent you an entire new kit or at the very least, an entire new sprue for the parts affected, but this is the second or third time since the pandemic that I've heard people saying FW customer service just tells them to try some BS solution that tech support would give you instead of fixing the issue by sending new parts.


Edited by Tyberos the Red Wake, 08 July 2020 - 10:32 PM.

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#17
Fajita Fan

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One of the coats was varnish with the FW rep telling me varnish wasn’t affected by temperature or humidity despite the can’s label indicating that. 

Actually, those labels aren't really accurate. It's easily possible to get good undercoat results even during fog or slightly below zero temperatures. Just make sure you shake the can well BEFORE you head outdoors.

 

My experiences with the FW customer support have been great so far. I once somehow managed to lose the upper leg of a Leviathan when I was cleaning it. Mailed them and, after sending them a picture of the serial number of the model, had a replacement part in my mailbox a couple days later. Send them a picture, describe the issue and you may soon find yourself in possession of a 'proper' chunk of resin.

 

I bought the model last November or December and figured I only had a short window to return something if there was a problem, there's no stated warranty on the parts or timeframe.  It was just above freezing and very dry in the DC area and I would never varnish in those temps.  

 

You can see the difference in the resin surface between the leg and the gun, they're like different materials. I scraped with a knife and the surface underneath feels like the other models I got with the same order (Telemon with guns, AT guns, Bloodbowl).  

 

2020 07 08 (1)
 
I put some Vallejo primer on one of the gates and it grabbed perfectly.
 
2020 07 08 (3)

 

Then using the same brush and primer it just slide down the inside of the Telemon shoulder. Gluing the ankle and hip joints was frustrating as hell because the glue kept running out of the contact patch down onto the armor.  The FW guy kept telling it'll be fine when I spray it three times (varnish, black primer, gold) but I'm not happy with the leg pose at all because of how it glued.

 

2020 07 08 (4)

 

 

I haven't tried to mess with the dread after spraying him, I just stuck him in a box and figured I'd wait till spring but never got around to it.  


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#18
Darkwrath121

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My telemon dread was super shiny and glassy smooth after multiple scrubs and FW told me to spray it with varnish, then flat black, then gold. I did this and it passed a gentle fingernail test but I have yet to get around to painting it. I don’t feel like I should have to spray an expensive models with three coats just to get it sticking, this model felt entirely different than my other FW models.

Have the exact same issue for both my Telemon and Aquilon terminators. Need to get around to stripping and varnishing them as they suggest, since they refused to replace either kits, unfortunately.

#19
Fajita Fan

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Oh and OP if you do email FW don't tell them you soaked them in alcohol or anything but soapy water.  They'll tell you not to use any of those things even if you tried soapy water first and it didn't help.  


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#20
CMDR_Welles

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Oh and OP if you do email FW don't tell them you soaked them in alcohol or anything but soapy water.  They'll tell you not to use any of those things even if you tried soapy water first and it didn't help.


too late... /cries

#21
CMDR_Welles

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If they wont fix the issue, I'll just buy a couple of Deathwing Cyclones and just use those... It'll be a loss, but anything to lessen my frustration levels right now is worth it.

Disappointing though

#22
CMDR_Welles

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Was told I was SoL...

Non-approved washing... Oh well, live and learn.

Thankfully one of the bits sellers I use has a couple of Deathwing Cyclones for sale.

And thus, my horrid luck with resin models continues in fine form.

#23
Fajita Fan

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That sucks rolleyesclean.gif


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#24
Arkhanist

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Was told I was SoL...

Non-approved washing... Oh well, live and learn.

Thankfully one of the bits sellers I use has a couple of Deathwing Cyclones for sale.

And thus, my horrid luck with resin models continues in fine form.

 

Yikes. Forgeworld customer service used to be so good, it sounds like it's really dropped lately. Sorry to hear you got stiffed.

 

It's probably worth giving the varnish method a go though. As I understand it, the sweating is because it's cured badly and has tiny holes. Oily stuff (possibly mold release, possibly uncured resin component) leaks out of the micro holes. Scrubbing it does nothing, because as soon as you clean it off, more leaks out. If you can get the varnish to stick and cure that - in theory - should block the holes, and thus the leakage, and let superglue and primer bond.


Edited by Arkhanist, 09 July 2020 - 06:55 PM.

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#25
Jukkiz

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Also, if you´re having trouble with glue sticking, try some sandpaper and pinning, just to be sure


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