9ed strats and composition?

[Gendo]

Hail brothers!

 

 

 

I've been busy painting the units you suggested to complement my force which are Assault Centurions and Redemptor Dreadnought, and now that I've finished the Centurions in our glorious colours I kinda like them so will get another set to make a 5 man squad!

 

 

 

Painting got me thinking about how to use what I have now that we got the rules and will probably use Faith and Fury for a while, I'm specifically looking at using 2x LRCs and Crusader squads and not be a total waste of points or auto-loss.

 

 

 

What I think I should deploy so far:

 

 

 

-As you suggested the Centurions (flamers and storm go in 1 LRC with a Character (AA + 0/-1 AP volume)

 

-Stormhawk Interceptor with AA options, 1 ground and 1 air (AA + 0/-1 AP volume)

 

-Redemptor with Plasma, Storm Bolters and Gatling cannon (AA platform)

 

-Ven Dred with twin Las and fist around Redemptor with Cap or Leut around (AA platform)

 

 

 

So that I think it's enough punch to blow up stuff right? also varied and hard to prioritize for the enemy as it's going to be all over the table.

 

 

 

As of other options:

 

 

 

-I can put together up to 2x 20 man Crusader sq with Chainswords, I also have a variety of Bolters, Heavies and Specials on top but rather leave that to vehicles...

 

-Assault Termis and Jump Vets both 5 man with 3xHammers+Shield and 2x Claws

 

-All Characters, Apothecary, Standard Bearer, regular Chaplain and Techmarine plus a Termi Cap to paint and could model a Leut. 

 

-1 more LRC, 2x Rhino/Razor, 2x Pods

 

-Thunderfire Cannon with own Techmarine.

 

-Predator w/ Las

 

 

 

How would you play with these units? Which Characters go with what and which relics to take? Not looking to play tournaments but I'd like to play for more than a round each time

 

 

 

Thanks.

[HighMarshalAmp]

Strats? Composition?
You're getting dangerously close to my other money sink here

 

What useful things could I add to what you've listed? I've not played my BTs for... dear, it's a year now.

Still:

 

-The Chapter Relics are... kinda meh, honestly. Far too situational for my taste compared to Salamanders, for example.

Still, you can build around any one, pick one you like the sound of.
Else, just have a list and see which relic fits your natural playstyle with that list.

 

-I love Drop Pods to get the action going turn 1, I'd prioritize them and plenty of swords to put in them.

Along with that, you'd need a Captain or Lt with Front-Line Commander.

 

-A second LRC? Do. One will get focussed down immediately, leaving anything inside stranded far from the action. Double up for threat saturation.

 

-Put a Jump Pack on that Chaplain. Then DS him alongside your Vets for a mobile powerhouse.

 

If you don't mind investing in new stuff, Assault Intercessors and some 1mm chains to BT them up. 'nuff said.

Crusader Squads are what Rubric Marines are to 1k Sons - they're our signature Troops and we'd all really like to run them. It's just that their rules and cost suck compared to other units.

Props to you for DSing any Crusaders you can't fit into the LRCs or Pods though. I'd prefer to face a list that actually feels BT to the latest Primaris craze any day - not just because my odds of winning with MY Oldmarine list would increase.

 

That's it off the top oy my head, expect me to drop by again once I can think of anyhting more.

Edited July 9, 2020 by HighMarshalAmp

[Urkh]

-I can put together up to 2x 20 man Crusader sq with Chainswords, I also have a variety of Bolters, Heavies and Specials on top but rather leave that to vehicles...

 

Wouldnt this size of crusader squad make you have 10 neophytes and one 9 initiates, because one of them is now automatically a sword brother? That would get rid of the special paired up rule for the neophytes until at least one neo dies (which I guess would happen on the way to the target anyways, so might not be a big deal). Would a 19 man squad with one less neo be a better choice? (This is a legit question, as I haven't been able to play a game of 40k since 8the came out.)

[Gendo]

 

-I can put together up to 2x 20 man Crusader sq with Chainswords, I also have a variety of Bolters, Heavies and Specials on top but rather leave that to vehicles...

Wouldnt this size of crusader squad make you have 10 neophytes and one 9 initiates, because one of them is now automatically a sword brother? That would get rid of the special paired up rule for the neophytes until at least one neo dies (which I guess would happen on the way to the target anyways, so might not be a big deal). Would a 19 man squad with one less neo be a better choice? (This is a legit question, as I haven't been able to play a game of 40k since 8the came out.)

 

That's true but if I deploy 20 models I'll probably lose some to make it even as they'll walk up, but I don't need to make such large squads if they don't make sense. Was thinking of putting 15 of them in the other LRC with Helbrecht as a troop/horde killer? +1S and reroll hits could make them worth it but then the clear target will be the Centurions in the other LRC and I'd like to make it hard to choose which one to take down but then I've got only Termis as an alternative.

 

As for making use of the minimum 3 troop choices I like the Pods idea from HighMarshalAmp, could but 4 Crusaders with Bolters each and SB with S.Bolter plus the one on the Pod and drop both on objectives. Nothing much but cheap and tactically sound imo, digs out the enemy early on to take on the threat. 

[HighMarshalAmp]

 

 

[...]

[...]

That's true but if I deploy 20 models I'll probably lose some to make it even as they'll walk up, but I don't need to make such large squads if they don't make sense. Was thinking of putting 15 of them in the other LRC with Helbrecht as a troop/horde killer? +1S and reroll hits could make them worth it but then the clear target will be the Centurions in the other LRC and I'd like to make it hard to choose which one to take down but then I've got only Termis as an alternative.

 

As for making use of the minimum 3 troop choices I like the Pods idea from HighMarshalAmp, could but 4 Crusaders with Bolters each and SB with S.Bolter plus the one on the Pod and drop both on objectives. Nothing much but cheap and tactically sound imo, digs out the enemy early on to take on the threat. 

 

Personally, if I was playing you I'd definitely still prioritize the Centurions.

Maybe think about 'outflanking' them instead and using other units to clear any screens.

With games lasting 5 turns now, having a whopper like the Centurions arrive in prime condition Turn 3 can really screw up your opponents day.

 

That said, CS Crusaders in an LRC with buffs are a scary prospect. Also, Shock and Awe was made for them (literally).

 

I definitely like the idea of using Pods as 'this objective is mine now'-markers. If the objectives are placed correctly, it works.

Use the Pods as cover for the Troops if you can. They don't have staying power on their own.

 

 

 

[...]

Wouldnt this size of crusader squad make you have 10 neophytes and one 9 initiates, because one of them is now automatically a sword brother? That would get rid of the special paired up rule for the neophytes until at least one neo dies (which I guess would happen on the way to the target anyways, so might not be a big deal). Would a 19 man squad with one less neo be a better choice? (This is a legit question, as I haven't been able to play a game of 40k since 8the came out.)

 

RAW right now, it does not apply to the Sword Brother and afaik, it hasn't been FAQd yet.

Edited July 10, 2020 by HighMarshalAmp

[Hymnblade]

In terms of drawing fire from the Centurion LRC, I've had really good results with an Invictor. It's dangerous enough that they want to shoot it, fragile enough that they won't be discouraged, and forward deployment makes it a more immediate threat. But it's also cheap enough that losing it doesn't hurt, and if you put it at the forward edge of your Aurillian Shroud bubble, it'll still absorb a fair amount of firepower.

 

I've entertained using a Redemptor for the same role, but haven't gotten to try it yet.

[Gendo]

Thanks for the inputs here, still trying to piece together all the changes since vanilla 8th and still confused Didn't even know about all the stuff under the "Angels of Death" keyword...

I think a couple of drop pods on T1 could draw the right unit's attention as they have 8W 6T and it's good bait too as I know where capable units will go even before the game starts

So let's say I keep the 2 LRC's with Centurions and Crusaders, which HQ would you put in each? Am I right in thinking that Helbrecht would make the Crusaders decent and the +1S on the Centurions isn't that big? From what I read Grimaldus is pretty decent now, would that be enough for the Centurions?

 

Just read about the Relics, wanted to give the LRC the Shroud but then can't assign them to characters, suggestions?

Edited July 11, 2020 by Gendo

[Brother Kraskor]

 

So let's say I keep the 2 LRC's with Centurions and Crusaders, which HQ would you put in each? Am I right in thinking that Helbrecht would make the Crusaders decent and the +1S on the Centurions isn't that big? From what I read Grimaldus is pretty decent now, would that be enough for the Centurions?

 

Just read about the Relics, wanted to give the LRC the Shroud but then can't assign them to characters, suggestions?

 

Helbrecht's +1S was only useful for Centurions in 8th against T6 opponents, because it applied before their x2 from the weapons - so they ended up as S12 and therefore wounding T6 on 2+. In 9th the +1 applies after the x2, which would make them S11 - wounding T6 on 3+. So now for Centurions the +1S is useless (unless you go up against much T11!) - much better for the Crusaders who then wound MEQ on 3+.

 

And I thought Relics had to be given to a unit with the character keyword? So not a LRC?

 

Edit: Thinking more widely about Helbrecht's +1S, I guess that could be pretty handy with Bladeguard making them S6 - suddenly T5 enemies are quaking in their boots.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Brother Kraskor

[Gendo]

 

 

So let's say I keep the 2 LRC's with Centurions and Crusaders, which HQ would you put in each? Am I right in thinking that Helbrecht would make the Crusaders decent and the +1S on the Centurions isn't that big? From what I read Grimaldus is pretty decent now, would that be enough for the Centurions?

 

Just read about the Relics, wanted to give the LRC the Shroud but then can't assign them to characters, suggestions?

 

Helbrecht's +1S was only useful for Centurions in 8th against T6 opponents, because it applied before their x2 from the weapons - so they ended up as S12 and therefore wounding T6 on 2+. In 9th the +1 applies after the x2, which would make them S11 - wounding T6 on 3+. So now for Centurions the +1S is useless (unless you go up against much T11!) - much better for the Crusaders who then wound MEQ on 3+.

 

And I thought Relics had to be given to a unit with the character keyword? So not a LRC?

 

Edit: Thinking more widely about Helbrecht's +1S, I guess that could be pretty handy with Bladeguard making them S6 - suddenly T5 enemies are quaking in their boots.

 

Thanks for clarifying the Helbrecht's +1 I wouldn't have noticed, not into buying Primaris troops at this point though.

 

By "giving the LRC the Shroud" I meant giving it to the character inside thinking it would affect the LRC even if embarked, but then it can't be given to named characters anyways.

 

Edit: Btw since we're here, reading through the Litanies they start with "if the Litany is inspiring..." do I have to roll for them like Psychic powers or just pick them? Nothing in the rule book about it.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Gendo

[Hymnblade]

The Shroud will only work when it's on the board. In 8e and 9e, models in transports are not considered on the board, so they don't even affect the vehicle they're in with auras. Instead, typically you want it on a jump pack or bike character moving alongside the tank.

 

The litany thing is on the Chaplain datasheet: when they chant a litany, it's inspiring on a 3+.

[Brother Kraskor]

And you can just pick them! No need to roll randomly (although you can if you want). 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

And you would pick them, because several of the original set are duplicated for our chapter in other rules.