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Plastic Heresy Spitballing - [BASELESS SPECULATION]


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#26
sarabando

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an updated plastic heresy land raider that could serve as a base for resin conversion packs would be a good choice, same for diemos rhinos, then sell upgrade kits to whirlwinds and predators.

 

With indomni being made to order after fan backlash its struck me as a good time to go pester GW about a made to order calth rerelease too.



#27
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I've always wondered what was behind FW's move away from providing 'Upgrade Kits' for the vehicles it did so you could just buy, for example, the resin bits for a Damocles Rhino or a Leman Russ variant* to go on a plastic kit you already had? This was back in the day when pretty much all FW did was vehicle and super-heavy kits though.

 

 

*Obviously with the Leman Russ a lot of the variants ended up in plastic kits.



#28
sarabando

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I've always wondered what was behind FW's move away from providing 'Upgrade Kits' for the vehicles it did so you could just buy, for example, the resin bits for a Damocles Rhino or a Leman Russ variant* to go on a plastic kit you already had? This was back in the day when pretty much all FW did was vehicle and super-heavy kits though.

 

 

*Obviously with the Leman Russ a lot of the variants ended up in plastic kits.

i think if they cut out the included plastic kits and just said "this is an upgrade kit for X" and sold them cheaper they would shift alot more


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#29
MegaVolt87

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an updated plastic heresy land raider that could serve as a base for resin conversion packs would be a good choice, same for diemos rhinos, then sell upgrade kits to whirlwinds and predators.

 

With indomni being made to order after fan backlash its struck me as a good time to go pester GW about a made to order calth rerelease too.

 

Thats a good idea. Technically the Mk II (B?) LR already does this, its just the 40k LR and upgrades I believe. Still, dedicated plastic vehicles would be nice if its done properly. 


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#30
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So with FW clearly streamlining their range i.e.

 

- Removing shoulder pads and replacing them with transfers (very cheap to produce, are very likely outsourced and don't require staff time to cast)

- The Mark IV box no longer has a unique box or Word Bearer transfers, just has generic ultramarines one stuck in (minor thing, but mark iv being perpetually out of stock suggests that they are doing runs of them)

- Removing the heavy weapons that don't have hands and aren't underslung

- Other kits being culled at the moment.

 

As a result, I don't think it's unrealistic to expect some plastic kits. Very limited amounts, but at least some. The one obvious thing here is that they're getting rid of the stuff that they have to cast and that they can achieve in cheaper ways. If I were FW and I wanted to get more profit out of heresy:

 

- Deimos Rhino in plastic, with supporting conversion parts available in resin. They already have the Sisters Deimos as a base, so use that and replace all the spare area with command tank bits etc. Then charge the same amount. Then, if they made plastic rhinos, it's a simple step to make a resin kit or a single plastic conversion kit for predators, whirlwinds etc. This gives them alot of mileage out of the kit.

 

- Assault or Breacher kits, with conversion parts for the unique legion units and destroyers etc. They would be cheaper than resin, unappealing for FW but they'd shift alot more of them.



#31
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an updated plastic heresy land raider that could serve as a base for resin conversion packs would be a good choice, same for diemos rhinos, then sell upgrade kits to whirlwinds and predators.

 

With indomni being made to order after fan backlash its struck me as a good time to go pester GW about a made to order calth rerelease too.

 

Now I'm just fantasising about a bundle set along the lines of the old Titanicus Battleforce box that's just a Deimos Predator, Proteus Land Raider & Sicaran for £100. The dream.

 

I've always wondered what was behind FW's move away from providing 'Upgrade Kits' for the vehicles it did so you could just buy, for example, the resin bits for a Damocles Rhino or a Leman Russ variant* to go on a plastic kit you already had? This was back in the day when pretty much all FW did was vehicle and super-heavy kits though.

 

 

*Obviously with the Leman Russ a lot of the variants ended up in plastic kits.

 

I do really wish some of the 30k vehicles were still available as upgrade sets - I have a neglected Rhino & Land Raider Crusader (with *metal* sponsons) lying around and I'd love to upgrade them to the Deimos & MkIIb patterns respectively, but I can't without lumping myself with another Rhino & Land Raider.

 

So with FW clearly streamlining their range i.e.

 

- Removing shoulder pads and replacing them with transfers (very cheap to produce, are very likely outsourced and don't require staff time to cast)

- The Mark IV box no longer has a unique box or Word Bearer transfers, just has generic ultramarines one stuck in (minor thing, but mark iv being perpetually out of stock suggests that they are doing runs of them)

- Removing the heavy weapons that don't have hands and aren't underslung

- Other kits being culled at the moment.

 

As a result, I don't think it's unrealistic to expect some plastic kits. Very limited amounts, but at least some. The one obvious thing here is that they're getting rid of the stuff that they have to cast and that they can achieve in cheaper ways. If I were FW and I wanted to get more profit out of heresy:

 

- Deimos Rhino in plastic, with supporting conversion parts available in resin. They already have the Sisters Deimos as a base, so use that and replace all the spare area with command tank bits etc. Then charge the same amount. Then, if they made plastic rhinos, it's a simple step to make a resin kit or a single plastic conversion kit for predators, whirlwinds etc. This gives them alot of mileage out of the kit.

 

- Assault or Breacher kits, with conversion parts for the unique legion units and destroyers etc. They would be cheaper than resin, unappealing for FW but they'd shift alot more of them.

 

I'm really hoping the new factory means that FW gets some dedicated plastic manufacturing capability so stuff like this is more likely.


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#32
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If HH went down the full plastic route I would drop 40k in a heartbeat.
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#33
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If HH went down the full plastic route I would drop 40k in a heartbeat.

if we get support i feel that some 40k players will deffo jump ship when old marines finally get axed


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#34
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I've always wondered what was behind FW's move away from providing 'Upgrade Kits' for the vehicles it did so you could just buy, for example, the resin bits for a Damocles Rhino or a Leman Russ variant* to go on a plastic kit you already had? This was back in the day when pretty much all FW did was vehicle and super-heavy kits though.

 

 

*Obviously with the Leman Russ a lot of the variants ended up in plastic kits.


More money through the Forgeworld store rather than GW, trade sales or, worst of all, second hand :P With a thin veneer of it being for customer convenience. 



#35
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If HH went down the full plastic route I would drop 40k in a heartbeat.

if we get support i feel that some 40k players will deffo jump ship when old marines finally get axed

 

 

It doesn't really matter, they are still paying customers who will end up paying more in the end to GW. Look at the mark ups between the 30k termi and tactical kits vs their 40k counterparts. GW is starting to understand and learn its better to retain any customer who will spend money, even outside of 40k/ AoS, hence its rapid expansion of basically everything (HH the exception at the moment, hopefully temporary issue). 


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#36
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FW will not make plastic 30k
The plastic kit we have now will be all That we get
FW will retire the conversion kits (shoulder pads, heads, veichle doors) and keep just the legion specific kits

30k is too niche to justify plastic moulds

my2cents

Edited by Master Sheol, 21 July 2020 - 10:41 AM.

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#37
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FW will not make plastic 30k
The plastic kit we have now will be all That we get
FW will retire the conversion kits (shoulder pads, heads, veichle doors) and keep just the legion specific kits

30k is too niche to justify plastic moulds

my2cents

But somehow Adeptus Titanicus, Bloodbowl, Necromunda and Aeronotica Imperialis are less niche?


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#38
Master Sheol

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FW will not make plastic 30k
The plastic kit we have now will be all That we get
FW will retire the conversion kits (shoulder pads, heads, veichle doors) and keep just the legion specific kits

30k is too niche to justify plastic moulds

my2cents

But somehow Adeptus Titanicus, Bloodbowl, Necromunda and Aeronotica Imperialis are less niche?
Yes
They sell them through GW regular stores and they are small games that require a lot less investiment in terms of money and time
30k is meant for a small number of 40kveterans willing to pay hundreds of €$£ for one army

Edited by Master Sheol, 21 July 2020 - 12:47 PM.

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#39
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I think they will do more plastic kits, but they will focus on core units that are widely applicable.

Core kits like destroyers, assault marines, etc. have to require quite a bit of effort to manufacture resin kits for in volume.

Edited by WrathOfTheLion, 21 July 2020 - 02:04 PM.

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#40
Master Sheol

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I think they will do more plastic kits, but they will focus on core units that are widely applicable.

Core kits like destroyers, assault marines, etc. have to require quite a bit of effort to manufacture resin kits for in volume.

It would be good but the 30K project is heading toward on its end (we reached the last part of the story with BL novels and soon with book 9 we will have the rules of all the Legions and i guess FW will move towards the final battle too) and it would not be remunerative for GW/FW now to invest in costy plastic moulds when most of the HH players already have all they need


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#41
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I think they will do more plastic kits, but they will focus on core units that are widely applicable.

Core kits like destroyers, assault marines, etc. have to require quite a bit of effort to manufacture resin kits for in volume.

It would be good but the 30K project is heading toward on its end (we reached the last part of the story with BL novels and soon with book 9 we will have the rules of all the Legions and i guess FW will move towards the final battle too) and it would not be remunerative for GW/FW now to invest in costy plastic moulds when most of the HH players already have all they need
Just release them, and hear me out, it might sound crazy, but BIGGER!

#42
Master Sheol

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I think they will do more plastic kits, but they will focus on core units that are widely applicable.

Core kits like destroyers, assault marines, etc. have to require quite a bit of effort to manufacture resin kits for in volume.

It would be good but the 30K project is heading toward on its end (we reached the last part of the story with BL novels and soon with book 9 we will have the rules of all the Legions and i guess FW will move towards the final battle too) and it would not be remunerative for GW/FW now to invest in costy plastic moulds when most of the HH players already have all they need
Just release them, and hear me out, it might sound crazy, but BIGGER!

 

Yes it would totally be but to go with all those kits you must put them on the GW site and accompany them with a ruleset on that site... You cannot make 30K BIG without going through the main GW site


“Battles are won by courage, by standing firm in the face of overwhelming adversity, by advancing into certain death when every instinct is screaming at you to turn.”

#43
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I think they will do more plastic kits, but they will focus on core units that are widely applicable.

Core kits like destroyers, assault marines, etc. have to require quite a bit of effort to manufacture resin kits for in volume.

It would be good but the 30K project is heading toward on its end (we reached the last part of the story with BL novels and soon with book 9 we will have the rules of all the Legions and i guess FW will move towards the final battle too) and it would not be remunerative for GW/FW now to invest in costy plastic moulds when most of the HH players already have all they need
Just release them, and hear me out, it might sound crazy, but BIGGER!

 

Yes it would totally be but to go with all those kits you must put them on the GW site and accompany them with a ruleset on that site... You cannot make 30K BIG without going through the main GW site

 

 

All the Specialist Games rulebooks are written, formatted and made by FW but sold through the main GW website, why would doing the same be an issue for the Heresy? Betrayal at Calth & Burning of Prospero were both sold on the main GW site.


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#44
Master Sheol

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I think they will do more plastic kits, but they will focus on core units that are widely applicable.

Core kits like destroyers, assault marines, etc. have to require quite a bit of effort to manufacture resin kits for in volume.

It would be good but the 30K project is heading toward on its end (we reached the last part of the story with BL novels and soon with book 9 we will have the rules of all the Legions and i guess FW will move towards the final battle too) and it would not be remunerative for GW/FW now to invest in costy plastic moulds when most of the HH players already have all they need
Just release them, and hear me out, it might sound crazy, but BIGGER!

 

Yes it would totally be but to go with all those kits you must put them on the GW site and accompany them with a ruleset on that site... You cannot make 30K BIG without going through the main GW site

 

 

All the Specialist Games rulebooks are written, formatted and made by FW but sold through the main GW website, why would doing the same be an issue for the Heresy? Betrayal at Calth & Burning of Prospero were both sold on the main GW site.

 

The manuals for other specialist games are not huge tomes sold at 100€ each

If 30K want to go big they  would have to publish less deluxe books to be on par with the rest

This is why i said that 30K will remain the ultra niche product of FW and will always remains for the smaller volumes of models it moves always based on resin models

30K was not born to be mass produced and this means no plastic kits

BaC and BoP are small deviations from this pattern and we must be happy we can have plastic MK3/4 PA and Plastic Tartaros/Cataphractii TDA

 

We will never see a plastic Spartan or Stormeagle or deimos pattern rhino/predator (look how GW when making the deimos based SoB tanks did not made a generic deimos rhino with SoB sprue but a fully SoB kit showing that there is not the will to make a transition to plastic for 30K)


“Battles are won by courage, by standing firm in the face of overwhelming adversity, by advancing into certain death when every instinct is screaming at you to turn.”

#45
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When I said bigger it was a cheeky comment on how they could just resize the marines to select them again ex:. Primaris.

#46
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I think they will do more plastic kits, but they will focus on core units that are widely applicable.

Core kits like destroyers, assault marines, etc. have to require quite a bit of effort to manufacture resin kits for in volume.

It would be good but the 30K project is heading toward on its end (we reached the last part of the story with BL novels and soon with book 9 we will have the rules of all the Legions and i guess FW will move towards the final battle too) and it would not be remunerative for GW/FW now to invest in costy plastic moulds when most of the HH players already have all they need
Just release them, and hear me out, it might sound crazy, but BIGGER!

 

Yes it would totally be but to go with all those kits you must put them on the GW site and accompany them with a ruleset on that site... You cannot make 30K BIG without going through the main GW site

 

 

All the Specialist Games rulebooks are written, formatted and made by FW but sold through the main GW website, why would doing the same be an issue for the Heresy? Betrayal at Calth & Burning of Prospero were both sold on the main GW site.

 

The manuals for other specialist games are not huge tomes sold at 100€ each

If 30K want to go big they  would have to publish less deluxe books to be on par with the rest

This is why i said that 30K will remain the ultra niche product of FW and will always remains for the smaller volumes of models it moves always based on resin models

30K was not born to be mass produced and this means no plastic kits

BaC and BoP are small deviations from this pattern and we must be happy we can have plastic MK3/4 PA and Plastic Tartaros/Cataphractii TDA

 

We will never see a plastic Spartan or Stormeagle or deimos pattern rhino/predator (look how GW when making the deimos based SoB tanks did not made a generic deimos rhino with SoB sprue but a fully SoB kit showing that there is not the will to make a transition to plastic for 30K)

 

 

I dunno, have you seen some of the Limited Edition codexes/books GW have been putting out? The softback Black Books are already cheaper than the limited edition Psychic Awakening books, and the non-hardback ones are only 1.5x their price.

 

No-one's disagreeing that the Heresy wasn't initially designed to be plastic-focused, but it started out almost a decade ago, FW/ Specialist Games are in a very different place to where they were back then, with a different approach to games and making them more widely accessible - ironically, I'd say 30k's core range is *more* suitable to plastic mass-production given that there's a lot of mirror-match stuff going on with the forces available. Yeah we'll never see larger kits in plastic, it's just not feasible, but supporting a core range in plastic wouldn't actually require all that many kits.



#47
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I think they will do more plastic kits, but they will focus on core units that are widely applicable.

Core kits like destroyers, assault marines, etc. have to require quite a bit of effort to manufacture resin kits for in volume.

It would be good but the 30K project is heading toward on its end (we reached the last part of the story with BL novels and soon with book 9 we will have the rules of all the Legions and i guess FW will move towards the final battle too) and it would not be remunerative for GW/FW now to invest in costy plastic moulds when most of the HH players already have all they need
Just release them, and hear me out, it might sound crazy, but BIGGER!

 

Yes it would totally be but to go with all those kits you must put them on the GW site and accompany them with a ruleset on that site... You cannot make 30K BIG without going through the main GW site

 

 

All the Specialist Games rulebooks are written, formatted and made by FW but sold through the main GW website, why would doing the same be an issue for the Heresy? Betrayal at Calth & Burning of Prospero were both sold on the main GW site.

 

The manuals for other specialist games are not huge tomes sold at 100€ each

If 30K want to go big they  would have to publish less deluxe books to be on par with the rest

This is why i said that 30K will remain the ultra niche product of FW and will always remains for the smaller volumes of models it moves always based on resin models

30K was not born to be mass produced and this means no plastic kits

BaC and BoP are small deviations from this pattern and we must be happy we can have plastic MK3/4 PA and Plastic Tartaros/Cataphractii TDA

 

We will never see a plastic Spartan or Stormeagle or deimos pattern rhino/predator (look how GW when making the deimos based SoB tanks did not made a generic deimos rhino with SoB sprue but a fully SoB kit showing that there is not the will to make a transition to plastic for 30K)

 

 

Have you seen how much they sell collectors ed stuff for AoS and 40k? Its comparable and in some instances even more than FW books. HH book vols have been moving to softback, the price is like the 40k codexes, and the FW books are still ahead on content even though they are softback. FW exists for 40k, you can take a lot of the vehicles in 40k if you want already. SoB has a different aesthetic than marines, of course their rhino won't be a copy of the astartes one. You sound like someone who has never owned any FW at all and sound bitter for whatever reason about FW products. 


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#48
Master Sheol

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I think they will do more plastic kits, but they will focus on core units that are widely applicable.

Core kits like destroyers, assault marines, etc. have to require quite a bit of effort to manufacture resin kits for in volume.

It would be good but the 30K project is heading toward on its end (we reached the last part of the story with BL novels and soon with book 9 we will have the rules of all the Legions and i guess FW will move towards the final battle too) and it would not be remunerative for GW/FW now to invest in costy plastic moulds when most of the HH players already have all they need
Just release them, and hear me out, it might sound crazy, but BIGGER!
Yes it would totally be but to go with all those kits you must put them on the GW site and accompany them with a ruleset on that site... You cannot make 30K BIG without going through the main GW site

All the Specialist Games rulebooks are written, formatted and made by FW but sold through the main GW website, why would doing the same be an issue for the Heresy? Betrayal at Calth & Burning of Prospero were both sold on the main GW site.
The manuals for other specialist games are not huge tomes sold at 100€ each
If 30K want to go big they would have to publish less deluxe books to be on par with the rest
This is why i said that 30K will remain the ultra niche product of FW and will always remains for the smaller volumes of models it moves always based on resin models
30K was not born to be mass produced and this means no plastic kits
BaC and BoP are small deviations from this pattern and we must be happy we can have plastic MK3/4 PA and Plastic Tartaros/Cataphractii TDA

We will never see a plastic Spartan or Stormeagle or deimos pattern rhino/predator (look how GW when making the deimos based SoB tanks did not made a generic deimos rhino with SoB sprue but a fully SoB kit showing that there is not the will to make a transition to plastic for 30K)

Have you seen how much they sell collectors ed stuff for AoS and 40k? Its comparable and in some instances even more than FW books. HH book vols have been moving to softback, the price is like the 40k codexes, and the FW books are still ahead on content even though they are softback. FW exists for 40k, you can take a lot of the vehicles in 40k if you want already. SoB has a different aesthetic than marines, of course their rhino won't be a copy of the astartes one. You sound like someone who has never owned any FW at all and sound bitter for whatever reason about FW products.
I own all That FW made for DA and i am waiting for the release of the Lion
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#49
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A Horus Heresy red rulebook is less expensive than the 9E 40k rulebook, $62 vs $65 now. 40k collectors editions are not much less expensive than a black book for a vastly inferior product in both content and material quality.

To play the game as any legion prior to book 7, only 3 red books are needed, the core rulebook, the legion book and the legion army list. Those can all be had for $148 in the US.

The core HH range is well suited for plastic. Most players play a legion, and the generic legion kits would have a lot of coverage. Example kits would be assault marines, heavy support, deimos rhino, etc. kits. Like other games (LotR, etc.), could easily have a core range in plastic and then more specialized stuff in resin.

Edited by WrathOfTheLion, 22 July 2020 - 01:16 AM.

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#50
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To go "mainstream" 30k will need a second edition imo a new updated rulebook and a starter set with out those it won't go anywhere. It needs to break it's "it's 40k but super more expensive" image.
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