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Plastic Heresy Spitballing - [BASELESS SPECULATION]


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#101
Spagunk

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I still wish it were possible (I.e. If wishes were fishes etc). Or at the least bring them back as resin.


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#102
WrathOfTheLion

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New resin MK II would still be better than no MK II.

I think they could split the legs, the primaris aggressors does this and then keeps the thighs attached to a torso piece. They wouldn't be the old style kit in poseability, but it may be feasible to do it that way.
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#103
Armillion

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New resin MK II would still be better than no MK II.

I think they could split the legs, the primaris aggressors does this and then keeps the thighs attached to a torso piece. They wouldn't be the old style kit in poseability, but it may be feasible to do it that way.

100% agree that new resin MkII or even just start making the previous kits again would be great.

 

The aggressors are a good point about a potential solution.



#104
Doctor Perils

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Couldn't they keep the legs separate from the groin?
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#105
Gederas

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Couldn't they keep the legs separate from the groin?

If anything, it'd have to be "groin + thighs", then the "knees+Lower legs" due to the shape of Mark II


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#106
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Someone on Twitter was picking folks brains about hypothetical battle box sets, so I couldn't resist:

 

Schism of Mars:

 

Imperial Fists:

  • Praevian/ Forge Lord
  • 2 Castellax
  • 10 MkIII Breachers
  • Rapier Carrier

Mechanicum:

  • Magos Dominus
  • 3 Vorax
  • 8 Scyllax
  • Domitar

gallery_53779_9225_1044751.jpg

 

The idea being that you can build 2 Allied Detachments, or have a bunch of Mechanicum units /the basis of a Brethren of Iron force - if you wanted to maximise the amount of models that can be used in a Legion list, the Scyllax could be swapped out for Thallax too


Edited by Iron Hands Fanatic, 02 October 2020 - 06:39 PM.

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#107
sarabando

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while i praise your optimism thats a little much on the side of the mechanicus XD maybe more like 30 skitarii + 30k rules for them, Tech priest, and 3 bots would be more likely. The marine side looks ace especially if the rapier kit came with multiple options.



#108
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Well the idea was for a boxset that's designed to show the unique appeal of 30k so I didn't want any 40k-available units - a lot of the appeal of the Mechanicum is the aesthetics of stuff like the Battle-automata. The Ambot plastic kit proved porting the Castellax over to plastic in a relatively compact kit is eminently feasible, and while the Domitar is a beefy model being roughly Contemptor sized, the fact it doesn't have any flexible cables or ammo feeds means a platic version wouldn't have too many issues. The Vorax and Scyllax are trickier, pretty much locking the former's arms into monopose due to the rotor feeds (although if they came in a box of 3 and arms were interchangeable, I reckon there's be enough variety there), but it's less of an issue for the Scyllax where you could give the tentacles ball sockets given they aren't connecting two areas on the mini.



#109
sarabando

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Well the idea was for a boxset that's designed to show the unique appeal of 30k so I didn't want any 40k-available units - a lot of the appeal of the Mechanicum is the aesthetics of stuff like the Battle-automata. The Ambot plastic kit proved porting the Castellax over to plastic in a relatively compact kit is eminently feasible, and while the Domitar is a beefy model being roughly Contemptor sized, the fact it doesn't have any flexible cables or ammo feeds means a platic version wouldn't have too many issues. The Vorax and Scyllax are trickier, pretty much locking the former's arms into monopose due to the rotor feeds (although if they came in a box of 3 and arms were interchangeable, I reckon there's be enough variety there), but it's less of an issue for the Scyllax where you could give the tentacles ball sockets given they aren't connecting two areas on the mini.

if they could do multi part big mechs for them that would be ace aslong as the legs are posable like the resin contempor or the sentinel kit.



#110
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Yeah, I get that the Contemptor is the iconic 30k Dread, but for Betrayal at Calth, fitting it onto such a tiny sprue was never gonna do it justice - I am very enthused by how amazing the Titanicus kits are however, they pack in an amazing amount of detail and poseability which would put them in great stead if any of the Battle-automata were transitioned to plastic.


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#111
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I think a lot has happened in their plastic capabilities over the past few years, the newer kits are quite incredible.

 

I do think they would be able to pull off MK II, if done right. I'm hoping to see it.

 

I like the concept of a box that's extremely varied, but I think of it a different way I think. At least from the Legionnes Astartes side, the contents don't 'mature' with the hobbyist very well. Although more boring, things like tactical marines, contemptor dreadnoughts, rhinos, etc. are things someone entering the hobby could carry with them for their entire experience there. So at least in my mind, I value something that really does a lot to make that barrier of entry lower in something that can be quite expensive.



#112
Hungry Nostraman Lizard

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I hope that if the leviathan dreadnought were to EVER make it into plastic, it wouldn't suffer the horrendous "I've got a ram-rod glued to my spine" pose that the contemptor (plastic) has. Pose-ability should be akin to the resin one(s)!


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#113
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Looking at things like the Primaris Redemptor dreadnought, they can do a lot of stuff with those plastic dreadnoughts now. That kit is quite good, and its flexibility and cost of only $5 more than the contemptor really highlights how absurd the price is on the plastic contemptor compared to what it is.

 

If they were to do a new contemptor or leviathan in plastic, I would expect something of the quality of the newer 40k dreadnought.


Edited by WrathOfTheLion, 04 October 2020 - 03:06 AM.

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#114
MegaVolt87

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Looking at things like the Primaris Redemptor dreadnought, they can do a lot of stuff with those plastic dreadnoughts now. That kit is quite good, and its flexibility and cost of only $5 more than the contemptor really highlights how absurd the price is on the plastic contemptor compared to what it is.

 

If they were to do a new contemptor or leviathan in plastic, I would expect something of the quality of the newer 40k dreadnought.

 

I never understood why the plastic contemptor dread could look and be so garbage when the resin ones already existed for quite a while beforehand. The current levi in plastic 1:1, then just resins for legion styled ones would work. 


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#115
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Looking at things like the Primaris Redemptor dreadnought, they can do a lot of stuff with those plastic dreadnoughts now. That kit is quite good, and its flexibility and cost of only $5 more than the contemptor really highlights how absurd the price is on the plastic contemptor compared to what it is.

If they were to do a new contemptor or leviathan in plastic, I would expect something of the quality of the newer 40k dreadnought.


I honestly hate the redemptor assembly lol. I can never position the legs properly with the pistons.

#116
Noserenda

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They had the capability to make the plastic contemptor better, hell even the plastic starter box boxnaught looked better and that was a good few years older... They just for some reason didnt. I vaguely remember an implication that FW didnt want to move to the plastic one (with resin upgrades) being the new standard but tbh that doesnt sound particularly likely, Id guess they just made do with the sprue allocation they got and figured it wasnt so bad. 

But it was :(  My buddy has 4-5 of them and it only looks worse when you have several together!



#117
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Okay, so I made a slight revision to my proposed battle box - I think swapping out the Scyllax for Thallax and having all the Battle-Automata on one side would make it a more coherent set and also leaves the only unit unable to be included in some form of Legion list being the Magos Dominus:

 

gallery_53779_13609_390327.jpg

 

Schism of Mars:

 

Imperial Fists:

  • Forge Lord
  • 5 Thallax
  • 10 MkIII Breachers
  • Rapier Carrier

Mechanicum:

  • Magos Dominus
  • 2 Castellax
  • 3 Vorax
  • Domitar

 

I think a lot has happened in their plastic capabilities over the past few years, the newer kits are quite incredible.

 

I do think they would be able to pull off MK II, if done right. I'm hoping to see it.

 

I like the concept of a box that's extremely varied, but I think of it a different way I think. At least from the Legionnes Astartes side, the contents don't 'mature' with the hobbyist very well. Although more boring, things like tactical marines, contemptor dreadnoughts, rhinos, etc. are things someone entering the hobby could carry with them for their entire experience there. So at least in my mind, I value something that really does a lot to make that barrier of entry lower in something that can be quite expensive.

 

Oh 100% me too, if there's anything I want for 30k it's 'starter set' formatted stuff, hence my original premise for this thread - I'm a huge fan of the value and accessibility of the Titanicus starter kit and having a plastic equivalent for 30k would be the ideal, I was just responding to a Tweet asking folks to devise their ideal battle box, and for 30k I'd love to see the Mechanicus stuff in plastic and using a kit that also allows most of the units to be used by a Legion list seemed like a neat way to shoehorn that in.

 

 

Looking at things like the Primaris Redemptor dreadnought, they can do a lot of stuff with those plastic dreadnoughts now. That kit is quite good, and its flexibility and cost of only $5 more than the contemptor really highlights how absurd the price is on the plastic contemptor compared to what it is.

 

If they were to do a new contemptor or leviathan in plastic, I would expect something of the quality of the newer 40k dreadnought.

 

I never understood why the plastic contemptor dread could look and be so garbage when the resin ones already existed for quite a while beforehand. The current levi in plastic 1:1, then just resins for legion styled ones would work. 

 

They had the capability to make the plastic contemptor better, hell even the plastic starter box boxnaught looked better and that was a good few years older... They just for some reason didnt. I vaguely remember an implication that FW didnt want to move to the plastic one (with resin upgrades) being the new standard but tbh that doesnt sound particularly likely, Id guess they just made do with the sprue allocation they got and figured it wasnt so bad. 

But it was sad.png  My buddy has 4-5 of them and it only looks worse when you have several together!

 

Yeah, it was clearly 100% sprue size consideration - even having a single extra frame would probably have allowed for a vastly improved kit and it's a real shame that for whatever reason that wasn't the avenue they went with.

 

Funnily enough I was looking at how feasible the battle box I proposed the (Thallax version) would be re: sprue size and assuming you'd have the same amount/ size of sprues as Burning of Prospero:

 

10 Breachers = 1 MkIII marines sprue (this is a push, I *think* removing the chainswords, heavy bolter and thunder hammer from the existing sprue would leave space for 6 Boarding shields, so you've likely need a small extra sprue for the excess shields, but depending on how the shield arms are engineered - e.g forearm on back of shield, upper arm integrated into pauldron it's possible they could all fit on the existing sprue)

5 Thallax = 1 MkIII marines sprue

3 Vorax = 1 MkIII marines sprue

2 Castellax = 1 Tartaros terminators sprue

1 Domitar = 1 Custodes sprue

1 Rapier = 1 Sisters of Silence sprue

1 Forge Lord = 1 Ahriman sprue

1 Magos Dominus = 1 Geigor sprue


Edited by Iron Hands Fanatic, 04 October 2020 - 04:44 PM.

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#118
No Foes Remain

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I like the idea IHF but, forgive me if I am wrong, the Astartes side of that isn't a legal army as it doesn't have a second compulsory troop choice? In the two 'Venerable Boxes of Old' either side (or the whole box) could make a legal force (1 hq, 2 5-strong veteran squads +termies/dread) whereas that one will make a legal force for the Mechanicum but not the Astartes.

 

Unless having a Forge Lord makes one of the war-bots a troops choice then just ignore me.


10th Expeditionary Fleet 'Legion of Terra'    18 Legiones Astartes detachments from all active Legions; Geno One-Four-One Akkad; 13th Solar Auxiliary Cohort 'Black Scorpions'

sml_gallery_48988_16053_16940.png  sml_gallery_48988_16053_4278.png  sml_gallery_48988_16053_22349.png

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Sons of Horus 38th Company

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Adeptus Praetorii: Void Angels, Ultima Wardens, Crimson Saints  Adeptus Astartes Chapters

Order of the Amethyst Tower; Halcyon Dominion Militarum Forces; Knight House Cousland; Forge Fiefdom Orzarm

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#119
Iron Hands Fanatic

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I like the idea IHF but, forgive me if I am wrong, the Astartes side of that isn't a legal army as it doesn't have a second compulsory troop choice? In the two 'Venerable Boxes of Old' either side (or the whole box) could make a legal force (1 hq, 2 5-strong veteran squads +termies/dread) whereas that one will make a legal force for the Mechanicum but not the Astartes.

 

Unless having a Forge Lord makes one of the war-bots a troops choice then just ignore 

 

Nah, you're 100% right - as it's two distinct factions rather than all units from a single list, the idea was to make two legal allied detachments instead, I was kinda working on the assumption that the kits from the original 2 30k battle boxes would be repackaged into starter/ start collecting kits so there'd be easy access to troops choices outside this kit.


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#120
No Foes Remain

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Ah now I get you. So intead of this being another 'start collecting' this is a 'expand your force'. In that case, I like it and I want plastic breachers now please!


10th Expeditionary Fleet 'Legion of Terra'    18 Legiones Astartes detachments from all active Legions; Geno One-Four-One Akkad; 13th Solar Auxiliary Cohort 'Black Scorpions'

sml_gallery_48988_16053_16940.png  sml_gallery_48988_16053_4278.png  sml_gallery_48988_16053_22349.png

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Sons of Horus 38th Company

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#121
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Kinda? The main idea was an avenue to intro plastic Mechanicum kits while still being of interest to Legion players who are the vast majority in 30k, given all the units save the Magos can be used with the Legion list. You can straight up make a full army with a Mechanicum primary detachment & Legion allied detachment/ get a fully functional Mechanicum army and some extras to your existing Legion collection/ have two primary detachments with the addition of a single extra Legion troops choice/ have the foundation of a Brethren of Iron list (you'd need another Legion troops choice, Praetor and Techmarine).



#122
sarabando

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sadly i dont think we would ever see a plastic box that both parts cant be used in the same army.



#123
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I mean, Burning of Prospero contained a unit of Custodes and Sisters which couldn't be included in a Legion army? Plus, aside from the Magos Dominus you *can* use all the units in the same army via the Brethren of Iron (or Head of the Gorgon) rite, and even without the Rite you can still use everything in a standard Legion list save for the Domitar.



#124
Armillion

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Amending my previous statements about MkII in plastic...

 

Was digging through my sprues for a project and came across a partially unbuilt intercessors frame and then remembered that intercessors have quite the complex construction with separate right, left, groin + separate greaves for both legs.  Sooooo, I'm mistaken here teehee.gif 

 

Yeah it could be done, wouldn't be like the classic 1-piece legs of the MkIV's but it could probably be feasible to do them if they were 3-4 separate pieces.


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#125
WrathOfTheLion

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I think they already partially had to address this issue with MK III as well. The back of MK III has the same detail as MK II, and you can see that they split one of the legs off.

 

It's sort of an intermediate between the older style kits and the new primaris kits, which makes sense being only 1-2 years prior to them.

 

So I think with the way they do plastic now, as well as how they cut models now, they could do MK II. It still would need to be a more complicated kit as you said.






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