9th Edition and Legends

[Brother Tyler]

Out of curiosity, if we assume that:

• the Legends rules will remain untouched by GW, and
  
• the Legends rules need to be brought in line with the other rules for balance,

Would anyone be interested in a homegrown effort to update the Legends rules?

[Wulf Vengis]

That depends.

The legends units being left alone by GW may be the best thing that's ever happened to a units rules. No constant tinkering and attempting to match the newest ruleset may allow those units actually BE something.

 

EDIT: Not sure if that's making sense. But i mean that without being under constant scrutiny and adjustment the legends units may begin to feel stable and concrete. A sturdy support for a stronger game.

But again we shall see.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Wulf Vengis

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Things has simmered Down quite a bit. Noice

[Schlitzaf]

Legend Rules are Legends. Legending means free rules and points for your beloved army, forever. And I think Legends won’t be touched simply because Bretonnia and Tomb Kings have not. Edited August 7, 2020 by Brother Tyler
Guidance was already given, and there's no need for ad hominem attacks.

[chapter master 454]

Things has simmered Down quite a bit. Noice

 

Legend Rules are Legends. Legending means free rules and points for your beloved army, forever. And I think Legends won’t be touched simply because Bretonnia and Tomb Kings have not.

 

Spoke too soon BBF, you thought you turned the pasta down? Fool, they are now back at the boil! Muwahaha.

 

However lets address the matters here. Yes, you can play your bretonnians in AoS which is nice, it is nice to see rules do seem to still exist for those armies but ultimately they aren't getting more support, not unless Old World gets into full speed ahead mode though that is another topic.

 

There is no denying that many of us have the rose tinted glasses welded so hard onto our eyes that Iron Hands ask us when we got our eyes augmented but it isn't without a merit of concern. I mean, you brettonions didn't get replaced, you got merced wholesale and given hold over rules. This is straight up replacement with a little ceremony as possible. Some say it isn't the end but evidence doesn't exactly back that angle very well with some extremely long bomb theories being the only course. However the counter to that is as stated the lore would be completely retconned for more than just a single crusade, it would be messy and disrespectful and thus that is the only nail that firstborns use to keep themselves in the running for the future.

 

There is a very narrow line we need to tread within our hearts and minds between being rational and emotional. If we go full rational we lose any facet of the game that truly makes it shine while if we go full emotional we get the firefights of fraters with moderators coming in with melta.

 

The rational side of me says "suck it up and just get the new tanks, you'll likely warm to them over time" which conflicts with my emotional side relating to how I feel tanks should be, "Real Tanks have Tracks" and the value of my land raiders is no small token, to call my oldest model (over 18 years old, it is legal to drink ) invalid when to me it means much more than just the stats. Its the battles it has fought in, the victories and defeats. Is it wrong to ask why models must get hamstrung for no reason? I assure you, if Primaris would stop being as childish as us Firstborners and just get in the -beep- tank shinji then it wouldn't be a problem but apparently our tanks don't have the correct seats installed for cawl's patented "sit anyway" armoured cheeks!

It encompasses more than just the models really, the is the topic of "why?" when so much of it doesn't make sense. I mean if GW suddenly turn around, preview the new codex and we see a big fat 2 next to wound characteristics for Firstborn, then I will be shocked.

Until then...Imma go find a supply of land raider tracks...need to make plans for converting executioners if the portents are true.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Brother Tyler
Schlitzaf quote edited.

[PeteySödes]

Out of curiosity, if we assume that:

 

• the Legends rules will remain untouched by GW, and

   

   

• the Legends rules need to be brought in line with the other rules for balance,

 

Would anyone be interested in a homegrown effort to update the Legends rules?

 

It could be interesting. I've never really gone for homebrew but i would make the exception if the points changes drifted far enough from earlier legends entries as to make people not allow me to use certain models/units.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I won't be playing tournaments or even casual games unless Legends are permitted.

 

But it's never that simple.

I know my group are very competitive and will not like to see them at tournaments, and that many of our friendly games are actually training for tournament games.

 

I wonder how things will go once the 9th Ed tournament circuit kicks off properly....

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I wouldn’t get my hopes up for tournaments but hopefully you’ve got some friends who’ll let you use them for fun games .

[Interrogator Stobz]

TBF, my mates will likely have no issues facing Legends even with training games, they aren't total eggs :D

 

But if they don't, no game for me.

And yep, I'll be sitting the tournaments out.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Interrogator Stobz

[brother_b]

Trying to make a competitive game out of a rule set and system with such a diverse catalog of factions and miniatures is impossible. The whole competitive scene and tournament driven spin on 40K has probably exposed the hobby to new people, but also driven the game away from its core roots: a collectable miniatures game meant to be played amongst friends or clubs to tell a story and highlight the miniatures and painting aspect.

 

I wouldn’t really worry about legends in that sense, if you want to play tournaments you will have to abide by the rules, if you’ve got a good group of friends or a nice club, I’m sure legends will be allowed.

[NovemberIX]

Without touching on the more fraught opinions being expressed, I have a belief in the long game. That at some point GW will turn back around and rescale Space Marines to Primaris Marines size (or just a touch smaller to keep with the lore), they'll mine Legends as a source for new character kits and return squad options of old. As I see it now, Primaris is being positioned as a new player friendly army, Mono-posed so they always look good, streamlined options so new players aren't overwhelmed with choice or the need to kitbash, less small details that need to be picked out... I feel that legends is at least a small hold over until then, will it have the Razorback Rikarius or the LR Ares rules, probably not, which is a whole 'nother issue, but at least I can still run my Techmarine on a Bike for now. 

[Dam13n]

Back on topic, please.

[War Angel]

Without touching on the more fraught opinions being expressed, I have a belief in the long game. That at some point GW will turn back around and rescale Space Marines to Primaris Marines size (or just a touch smaller to keep with the lore), they'll mine Legends as a source for new character kits and return squad options of old. As I see it now, Primaris is being positioned as a new player friendly army, Mono-posed so they always look good, streamlined options so new players aren't overwhelmed with choice or the need to kitbash, less small details that need to be picked out... I feel that legends is at least a small hold over until then, will it have the Razorback Rikarius or the LR Ares rules, probably not, which is a whole 'nother issue, but at least I can still run my Techmarine on a Bike for now.

 

Sounds like that would be a nightmare for the fluff, in addition to taking away even further from other factions who should get a range refresh soon, while also being impossible to guarantee that kits will sell because you could just use the old kits. Probably cause further discontent when they take legends, models that GW said will never again have a rules set, and then undo that change; how many players who got rid of those units would be furious that they got rid of their models because they were told they would never have proper rules again.

[NovemberIX]

 

Sounds like that would be a nightmare for the fluff, in addition to taking away even further from other factions who should get a range refresh soon, while also being impossible to guarantee that kits will sell because you could just use the old kits. Probably cause further discontent when they take legends, models that GW said will never again have a rules set, and then undo that change; how many players who got rid of those units would be furious that they got rid of their models because they were told they would never have proper rules again.

 

 

While I agree that a release for space marines means that another faction isn't getting a release in that slot, I'm not of the idea that SM would get their rescale anytime before the completion of the Primaris product line, other factions would probably get their updates first. I may be lacking in imagination, but I don't see a direct issue with the continued release of a specific faction that does continue to exist in said fluff. Also retcons happen.

 

I know the case can be made about why should anyone upgrade when they can just use old models, but turn that question to, why should I buy Primaris when I can proxy all of them with my current space marines? Because like many who are into this hobby, I like to build and paint models, if GW makes a kit with new bits, and/or does a Deathwatch style rescale, I will go and begin to upgrade my marines just like when I went and bought the "new" tac kit and plastic veterans even though I had metal vets and tons of the old tac kits, it's why I have Mk III and IV kits. If GW gives me more modeling options, I will take it.

 

I think the discontent that GW may engender from bringing stuff from legends would be more than offset by enthusiasm for their return. Corollary to that, why should some people who get rid of models prevent me (or any other hobbyist) from getting new rules for units they enjoy? and why would "their" fury be worth more than my excitement and the currency I'd spend to acquire to collect said new models.  It's sorta like saying because my gaming buddy sold his Dark Eldar a couple of years back, I can't buy any now or his choice was a waste.

 

While I am personally for the legends rules, I've also been playing out of FW and Imperial indexes from day one, so I'm used to my rules being out of date and wonky.