The Chaos Space Marine Unit (Troop) in 9th

[Special Officer Doofy]

With SM and Necrons being the first two codexes for 9th and we have seen the leaks, they each have 2 pronged chapter/dynasty traits and a mono bonus of sorts. That could be a new trend rolling out with all of the new codexes. Only time will tell!

[Excessus]

Oh, and it costs 5p for giving them +1Ld if they don't have a mark, seems like a good investment... :)

[Excessus]

I played a 1500p game just now against GSC, my first 9th ed, and had 2 squads of 10 CSM with me in rhinos. One of the rhino+CSM were obliterated while trying to grab an objective, but it took his entire army one round of shooting to make that happen, and he just about killed them too. (I was a bit unlucky with saves) The other rhino moved forward, grabbed an objective, next turn the CSM went out while the rhino took another objective. One rhino and 10x CSM was enough to have board control of 1/3rd of the board, because they had finished off anything dangerous together with a venomcrawler from across the board, so the small squishy brotherhood units that were left there didn't dare to show themselves unless they would be blasted away by bolterfire... :)

 

His more heavier firepower was focused on my oblits and venomcrawlers.

 

 

A nice win for chaos!

[Brom MKIV]

I'm trying to find the good in csm squads. I wanna run the models but gods loyalists and blasts just really feel custom built to take away the horde "advantage" heretics are perceived to have forcing us into msu.

Go up against the new cheaper plasma inceptors for example.. my bro is rocking a list that looks something like this:

2x grav devs, pods

2x erads

5 plas interceptors

elims

2x aggressors

3x intercessors/infiltrators

characters

TFC

 

That is a metric eff ton of firepower and it sneaks in blasts on 3 units without really trying to. 10 csm is no more durable than 5. And that nonsense is everywhere.

I'm gonna use some non cultists troops this edition. Again. But I'm not sure csm will be the ones. Looking at all the cult troops atm to find what ally I may want to bump my troops value. PMs and rubrics look like the most obvious and I've had good mileage from rubrics in the past. Anyway thats where I'm at..

Edited August 9, 2020 by Brom MKIV

[nanosquid]

Now that troop spam isn't required by the FOC I've been having a lot of fun running 2 patrols with 2 squads of 10 CSM. Playing daemon engine heavy lists now gives my enemy some major threat to fire at and lets the boys in the trenches get a lot more done.

 

Honestly I just can't be bothered to fiddle with taking the cultists out of the transport bag anymore; I didn't sign up for Chaos Marines to play Imperial Guard.

Edited August 10, 2020 by nanosquid

[Snazzy]

I played a 1500p game just now against GSC, my first 9th ed, and had 2 squads of 10 CSM with me in rhinos. One of the rhino+CSM were obliterated while trying to grab an objective, but it took his entire army one round of shooting to make that happen, and he just about killed them too. (I was a bit unlucky with saves) The other rhino moved forward, grabbed an objective, next turn the CSM went out while the rhino took another objective. One rhino and 10x CSM was enough to have board control of 1/3rd of the board, because they had finished off anything dangerous together with a venomcrawler from across the board, so the small squishy brotherhood units that were left there didn't dare to show themselves unless they would be blasted away by bolterfire...

 

His more heavier firepower was focused on my oblits and venomcrawlers.

 

 

A nice win for chaos!

 

This is basically my playstyle.  I use 4x 10 CSMs and try to outlast the enemy.  The last 3 CSM in the squad are worth the entire rest of the squad in terms of firepower.  I have the advantage of being BL, so i have cheap rerolls for 1 CP, and World Killers on demand.  You just have to disrupt Primaries for a turn or two to win.  However, in terms of scoring maximum points, you trade points used for more firepower or mobility in order to disrupt Primaries.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Snazzy

[Gothical]

I am looking forwards to using my Iron Warriors in 9th, regardless of what changes Loyalists get (any stat inflation will eventually carry across, either via FAQ, "experimental rules", or waiting for the next Codex at worst).

 

I figure 5-man CSM squads with a Chaincannon (optional Combi-Melta/Chainaxe on Champ for walker deterrence and chaff killing), could be fairly viable. Decently tough in cover, kick out a lot of shots, and therefore puts them in the odd position of being deadly enough they can't be ignored but also can't be dealt with cheaply. it should also make it a tougher choice between shooting at them or the larger 10-man Plasma squads (rhino)advancing/outflanking to the forward objectives.

 

I think a unit or two of Cultists still has a place - 10 are a throw-away unit to either stall or perform actions you don't want to dedicate proper units to; 30 are a nice distraction (especially if they return to the battlefield via stratagem) with a bucket-load of ranged or melee attacks and will useful for gumming up the enemy's elite units/objective takers, especially now Combat Attrition has replaced Morale. Sure, they'll die - but they're [i[Cultists, that's what they're for :P

 

Whether taking 5 or 10 (or more!) CSM in a unit I think the important thing will be having a lot of distractions - Havocs with Autocannons/Missiles/Lascannons (multi-damage is key IMO), Helbrutes, Daemon Engines, Terminators, Characters etc. Forcing the opponent to choose between killy units and objective holders when it comes to their targeting (especially if said killy units can get into range of other objectives when they slaughter their targets) is going to be very important. Cultists don't really force that option since they can fold to a stiff breeze (not to mention all the weaponry that isn't effective on CSM in cover/Terminators/etc).

 

I think lots of distractions are also needed - Havocs with Autocannons/Missiles/Lascannons (multi-damage is key IMO), Helbrutes, Daemon Engines, Terminators, Characters etc.

 

[Schlitzaf]

Not exactly relavent to the convo but on topic:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365793-primaris-vs-firstborn-the-math/?do=findComment&comment=5583236

 

So for reference Primaris vs Firstborn question, and by implication Chaos Marine Squads (which I talk about in the post further down). Primaris are not power creeping Firstborn Squads

[Khornestar]

2 wound marines would be :cuss awesome! Would definitely give us a reason to use them over cultists, if that trickles over to us heretics. Edited August 12, 2020 by Juggernut

[Drudge Dreadnought]

It looks like 2W is confirmed for elite units, and probably all old marines given power level changes. And -1 AP on all marine chainswords also looks to be confirmed.

 

Get ready for Red Corsairs Iron Tide!

[Sonoftherubric21]

If we don't get 2 wound basic marines at this point (or at least 2 wound Havocs/chosen) are probably in the pipe. 

 

*FANTASTIC* 

 

That is a heck of a design bump and really evens us out, that + tactics reworks? We are dang near on parity with loyalists. Ill take that allllllll day long. 

[SyNidus]

I've been writing lists and i'm not sure whether to go for the full on 9 man CSM squads with chainswords with PFist, accompanied by Exalted Champion.

And i've strangely been thinking of going 10 man squad with 1 heavy weapon & 1 special weapon with PFist/Combi

Or even 5 man with Missile Launcher, Sgt w Combi-Plasma for sitting on backfield objectives, etc.

Would any of these be useful?

[Llagos_Tyrant]

There's some conflicting info/rumours suggesting it's just Elites getting 2W from the Space Marine range. Even if true, finally having 2W Chosen and Cult Troops, as well as 3W Terminators would be a great buff.

 

I wonder if VotLW will be changed to buff a regular unit of CSMs to 2W rather than increase their rolls to W? It would make more sense as point increase/upgrade to pay for a unit rather than a Stratagem at that point though.

 

Maybe more on the topic here, I've never considered running multiple squads of 10 CSMs. I've tended to stick to MSUs, but the idea of packing a lot of heavy weapons into regular Iron Warrior squads and marching them around the board sounds awesome.

[Marshal Loss]

Confirmed that we're getting 2W on all CSM units. The dream ls real!

[Llagos_Tyrant]

Link for those looking to read it, but yes. 

 

It's a glorious time.

 

I'm so pumped guys, this is awesome.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I am excited! Just finished a squad of terminators for my word bearers, so those will be ready to go.

[Khornestar]

Ooooh yes. 

 

This is the most exciting change to our faction in the entire time I've played them. Can't wait to see the rest of the changes in the codex!

[WarriorFish]

This is what we were expecting to see on release for 9th, but at least we know what the plan is now. From the looks of it that plan is "nothing is set"... I feel like we can't take anything off the cards as to what may come. This is a good thing I reckon, mix things up and question the established. Very interesting times are ahead.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how this pans out across all armies, but for my CSM so far it's already looking good. I have plenty of Marines and will add more, and of course Terminators too. We shouldn't forget the other changes too - 12" flamers will make a big difference particularly for Terminators arriving on the table and the small improvements to bolters and astarte chainswords will make a notable difference with how many are used across armies

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Very interesting - we'll have to see what this does to point costs.

 

I wonder if the autocannon's profile will be changing - with heavy bolters going to D 2, there may not be a role that it fills better than other weapons.

[Captain Incompetence]

It is a glorious day . This change just made a whole bunch of units and loadouts viable that were garbage-tier before. CSM, Chosen, Raptors, ... I'm so happy! The only thing I'm wondering is what they're going to be doing to the Autocannon as it's just lost it's role to the Heavy-Bolter.

[Maschinenpriester]

It is a glorious day . This change just made a whole bunch of units and loadouts viable that were garbage-tier before. CSM, Chosen, Raptors, ... I'm so happy! The only thing I'm wondering is what they're going to be doing to the Autocannon as it's just lost it's role to the Heavy-Bolter.

I understand the thoughts about the AC. Would be awesome to see it become D3. But on the other hand... It costs the same has 33% fewer shots and 25% longer range and S7. So it is better to hurt stuff like dreadnoughts and T5/T6 infantry

Edited August 13, 2020 by Maschinenpriester

[Doom Herald]

Very interesting - we'll have to see what this does to point costs.

 

I wonder if the autocannon's profile will be changing - with heavy bolters going to D 2, there may not be a role that it fills better than other weapons.

Well, according to the article, Tactical Marines will be 18 points, so I would expect ours to increase accordingly. From the weapon standpoint, I'm less sure though.

 

This was largely good news, but the point increase has me less happy. Personally, I would have preferred 1-wound standard Marines at the same point cost with the other Marines going up to two wounds with a point increase. Squishy Marines for cheaper troops and if you wanted tougher ones, take Chosen. But, this is still largely good news, I think.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Doom Herald

[Noctus Cornix]

My possessed better get three wounds...

[Drudge Dreadnought]

We'll still need our legion traits overhauled, custom traits, and some special rules to mirror doctrines/super doctrines. But this is a huge step in the right direction. Its confirmed that CSM aren't just being left behind while loyalists move to Primaris. Hopefully when we see a new codex, the other issues will be addressed. Maybe we'll finally be able to run proper legion lists with plenty of infantry again?

 

I assume that CSM will be one of the first books to come after SM and Necrons.

[Cheex]

Lots of good news to wake up to here. Looks like I was half-right with the stat increases - we'll be getting weapon stat changes immediately, with wound increases when we get our codex. I wouldn't be surprised if this happens before the end of the year.

 

All in all, I'm glad that 9th looks like it'll be the edition where the devs take a hard look at things that 'are the way they are because they always have been'. I've long suspected that Psychic Awakening was intended to give the devs a buffer to work on everything in more detail, where 8th felt like a bit of a rush to get everything updated to the new format.

 

CSM having 2W is good, makes them distinct to Cultists but I hope they still get more buffs. I'm more looking forward to seeing how it affects traditionally small squads, like Havocs or Warp Talons.

 

I also hope Possessed end up with 3W, but more importantly I hope they get new models along the lines of Greater Possessed.

 

Exciting times!