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Imperial Heralds Primaris Chapter


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#51
Gederas

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Nooope...... I'm sayin' that when your genetic code is derived from a psychopathic demi-god there might be some slippagewacko.png

Curze was a psychopath because of his upbringing (or lack thereof), not because of any genetics.
 


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#52
Brother Lunkhead

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I find the subject of nature v nurture and the genetic factors in psychopathy infinitely fascinating, however this is starting to overshadow the topic at hand, the Imperial Heralds (place holder name) Primaris chapter.

 

At this point, I'd really like to see how JimVandy85 wants to proceed and what his game plan is.


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#53
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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Nooope...... I'm sayin' that when your genetic code is derived from a psychopathic demi-god there might be some slippagewacko.png

 

I tend to agree.

 

While I haven't read the novels with the Haunter in them, my only caveat would be that I always had the impression was that he wasn't just a (almost ordinary) psychopath, more that he was generally unhinged, that there was more going on. Psychosis, hallucination, bi-polar mood swings from both being too attached and being completely detached from other beings, and reality.

 

I'd simply say that there was more wiggle room in terms of how you interpret what they inherit, genetically speaking.

 

That said, their origins weren't exactly stellar so you're really planting a huge rock in the road of your work and forcing yourself to write around/over it because you believe it will be a good foundation. That's not necessarily the case, and it won't necessarily make them any better for it either. This isn't a knock against the idea as a whole, nor is it a jab at your ability to write, it's just an observation having seen plenty of 'loyal traitors' come through the Liber over the last... too long.

 

That said, I tend to agree. His genetic material that his sons will inherit traits from is likely extremely compromised in terms of behavioral influences and it'd be a fairly limited selection of genetic influences.


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The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#54
Gamiel

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If the Night Lords gene-seed do make it’s bearers into psychopaths and/or sadists (not all NL seems to have that problem, even if many do) so would I say that that create a possibility for something tragic hero storytelling, similar to the Blood Angels, with the Chapters members constantly having to fight to not give in to their darker impulses and having to hunt down those among them that has fallen.


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#55
Gederas

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If the Night Lords gene-seed do make it’s bearers into psychopaths and/or sadists (not all NL seems to have that problem, even if many do) so would I say that that create a possibility for something tragic hero storytelling, similar to the Blood Angels, with the Chapters members constantly having to fight to not give in to their darker impulses and having to hunt down those among them that has fallen.

It's less the gene-seed and more the recruits.

 

A better example is the Emperor's Spears: They're Ultramarines successors, but they don't act like Ultramarines AT ALL. However, they do have some... quirks that are subtly XIII derived. They have a very monomaniacal adherence to their culture's traits and customs. In the novel Spear of the Emperor, Brêac the Warhost Lord of the 3rd Warhost (3rd Comany) does a ritualistic greeting to a Mentor marine and his helots. When one Helot doesn't give their name, Brêac flat-out stops what he's doing and freezes until the Helot says their name to continue the greeting.

 

There's also their codes of conduct that forbid them from becoming too filthy, as they are forced to maintain their armour as well as they can, to respect its Machine Spirit and to intimidate the enemy, rather than looking battered and therefore weak. Which is very much something the Ultramarines do.

 

 

Essentially: Geneseed has some personality quirks, but it's not "All Night Lords are psychotic". In the context of the Imperial Heralds geneseed, it'd be "they're very much believers in their leader" or "they have a need to be a part of something greater than themselves"


Edited by Gederas, 18 October 2020 - 03:31 PM.

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#56
Gamiel

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If the Night Lords gene-seed do make it’s bearers into psychopaths and/or sadists (not all NL seems to have that problem, even if many do) so would I say that that create a possibility for something tragic hero storytelling, similar to the Blood Angels, with the Chapters members constantly having to fight to not give in to their darker impulses and having to hunt down those among them that has fallen.

It's less the gene-seed and more the recruits.

 

A better example is the Emperor's Spears: They're Ultramarines successors, but they don't act like Ultramarines AT ALL. However, they do have some... quirks that are subtly XIII derived. They have a very monomaniacal adherence to their culture's traits and customs. In the novel Spear of the Emperor, Brêac the Warhost Lord of the 3rd Warhost (3rd Comany) does a ritualistic greeting to a Mentor marine and his helots. When one Helot doesn't give their name, Brêac flat-out stops what he's doing and freezes until the Helot says their name to continue the greeting.

 

There's also their codes of conduct that forbid them from becoming too filthy, as they are forced to maintain their armour as well as they can, to respect its Machine Spirit and to intimidate the enemy, rather than looking battered and therefore weak. Which is very much something the Ultramarines do.

 

 

Essentially: Geneseed has some personality quirks, but it's not "All Night Lords are psychotic". In the context of the Imperial Heralds geneseed, it'd be "they're very much believers in their leader" or "they have a need to be a part of something greater than themselves"

 

 

First of: regarding the Spears being Ultramarine successors, you missed the point where the Emperor's Spears' officers were given lots of administrative work and was prepared for it with no complains. I really like that moment :)

 

Second: I did not say that the NL gene-seed made them psychotic, just that if it did so would it open for storytelling opportunities similar of the tragic hero/heroic monster kind. Now it's open to who ever makes a NL successor to decide such things.



#57
jaxom

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Psychological warfare is a useful tool, but still somewhat limited in this universe we play in. In order for fear to be effective it must be sustained and allowed to spread for long enough for your forces to take proper advantage or for a population to become compliant. Tau, their allies, Imperial governments and  world in revolt (depending on the scenario) would probably be most susceptible. Just about anything inflicted on the Orks generally yields to rage and the drive to fight. Genestealer cults would probably quickly purge individuals adversely inflicted with fear. Chaos cultists are generally too zealous or too fearful of their masters. I've already expressed my views on the Eldar races. I still think a chapter bred from the gene-seed of a psychopath would have limited benefits and uses versus the risks (e.g. uncomfortable scrutiny from the Inquisition if they slip up and accidentally torture a planetary population to deatheek.gif Oopsy).

 

I'm not saying it can't be done, or Brother JimV would be wrong to go down this path. These are just issues to consider. Anyway, I don't want to derail this chapter discussion, so that's all I will say on this subject.

 

Perhaps one angle, along the lines of judgement, is that they're a chapter which specializes in dealing with recidivists, heretics, and other anti-Imperial sentiment worlds. A few squads or a single company operating over a longer time period to terrorize a world or star system which has begun slipping from the control the Imperium could go a long way where a regiment or two of Guard would be a threat that could lead to organized resistance. If the terror doesn't work or there was a hard nucleus of the truly fervant chaos/xenos/etc behind it all then the rest of the company or chapter comes in to bring down the hammer. Could go for 8th or 17th (stealth-based Ashen Circle, for example).


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