CSM in 9th ed- what will you use

[MegaVolt87]

Thought I would start up a new topic about ideas about what units/ armies you will/ would like to try in 9th ed. I'll start off with my Hellforged Typhon IW list that's been on my mind since the leaks. 

 

Hidden Content

IRON WARRIORS- 2,000 points

Battalion detachment (-3 CP, +3CP from warlord = 0CP)

HQ 1- Chaos Terminator Lord                                                                                     

(WARLORD)                                                                                       

TRAIT; IRON WARRIORS- COLD AND BITTER                                                                                        

ARTEFACT OF CHAOS: FLESHMETAL EXOSKELETON                                                                          

Chaos Terminator Lord, Power Axe, Combi bolter                                                            

103 points

                                                                                               

HQ 1- Chaos Terminator Lord                                                                     

ARTEFACT OF CHAOS: INSIDIUM (-1 CP)                                                                                               

Chaos Terminator Lord, Chainfist, Combi bolter                                                                

108 points          

                                                                                               

Troop 1- Chaos Space Marines                                                                                                                                  

x5 CSM, x1 lascannon, x1 combi plasma (champ)                                                                              

95 points             

                                                                                               

Troop 2- Chaos Space Marines                                                                                  

x5 CSM, x1 lascannon, x1 combi plasma (champ)                                                                              

95 points

                                                                                               

Troop 3- Chaos Space Marines                                                                  

x5 CSM, x1 autocannon, x1 combi plasma (champ)                                                          

90 points

                                                                                               

Troop 4- Chaos Space Marines                                                                                  

x5 CSM, x1 autocannon, x1 combi plasma (champ)                                                                          

90 points

                                                                                               

Chaos Rhino w/ combi bolter 78 points

Chaos Rhino w/ combi bolter 78 points

                                                                                               

Elite 1- Chaos Terminators                                                                                                                                          

5 chaos terminators, Chain axes, Combi plasma                

Mark of Slaanesh                                                                                            

170 points

                                                                                               

Elite 2- Chaos Terminators                                                                                          

10 chaos terminators, 3 combi bolter, 3 chainfist, 7 pairs of lightning claws                                            

339 points

                                                                                               

Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment (-3CP)

Hellforged Typhon Heavy Seige tank                                                                                                      

Hellforged Typhon, Heavy bolter, Heavy bolter                 

750 points                                                                          

 

ARMY TOTAL-                                                                                    1,996

 

12 CP Strike Force

-3 CP Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment

-1 CP Artefacts of chaos stratagem

8 CP total

 

The wording of the IW trait (for now), with siege lords via the new rules is that we can ignore both light and heavy covers. (here is a post from the closed 9th ed speculation thread since closed I made) 

 

 

Looking at the rare rules in the big rulebook p360 bullet points-

 

does not receive the benefit of cover to saving throws= ignore light and heavy cover.

 

does not receive the benefits of cover that imposes a penalty on hit rolls= ignore dense cover.

 

does not receive the benefits of cover= ignore light cover, heavy cover, dense cover etc. 

 

Siege Lords for IW's is worded to the first point currently, so we would ignore light and heavy cover, which would help us make a balanced list with some melee. I hope the wording stays the same, that would encourage melee unis in IW's respectively. The IF trait one isn't really a nerf, its basically the same as it was. Its different for IF's because they have ranged in their tactic while IW's do not currently in how to apply it. (ranged attacks vs just attacks). So as I read RAW, IF's will only ignore light cover for their tactic because they can only apply their ignores cover via ranged attacks. 

 

The IF + IW traits should just be synched to seige lords wording IMO, its already getting too complicated and I just opened the book to check this first.The IW one works out of the box for 9th, the IF one is a mess. If they don't nerf seige lords to mirror IF wording, we got a nice buff in 9th.

 

Anyway, I think it will be interesting enough for me to play at any rate. 

 

[Khornestar]

World Eaters: MSU berzerkers, max size unit of chainfist red butchers, dreadnoughts dreadnoughts DREADNOUGHTS!

 

Word Bearers: For games I care about winning. Sorcerers, havocs, obliterators...

 

Hellforged predator with flamers, rapier laser destroyers, the Khornate superheavies, raptors, warp talons...

 

You know, more than anything else I think I just want to use my entire collection. 8th edition existed long enough to teach us which units were just so bad they weren’t worth using most of the time. I’d at least like to build and play with the things I wrote off last edition.

[MasterDeath]

Word Bearers, athough I am not sure how, yet. I need either cultists or CSM, then I would like to add some Double-Combi-Bolter/Havoc Rhinos. I will take it slowly, as I would like to see at least parts of a future Codex before investing anything big. Till then I will paint mainly terrain.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I'm getting my Emperor's children usable, but especially looking forwards to trying my stormraven, hellforged predator infernus, and chosen.

[Relentless]

I'll be trying my WE with the usual 3 9-man zerker squads in rihinos and a bunch of demon engines.  Still not sure whether I should go Cultist or CSM for objective holding

[Excessus]

I really want a pair of Defilers, but the models are so meeeeeh...

 

...and I don't know how to convert them! :(

[Doom Herald]

Creations of Bile, for sure. +1 to move and strength is amazing, even if it means you have to take Bile as Warlord. Then you have the option of buffing another character with a strategem which is on par and maybe better than our warlord traits. Obliterators get a nice movement buff, Terminators get bumped up to normal movement, power armor units get Eldar movement.

 

I'm thinking seriously about running Nurgle Mutilators as a body guard unit for Bile. By point value, they are more wounds and more durability than Terminators, throw the +1 toughness buff on them (which Bile's assistant can guarantee you get) and use Grandfather's Blessing and maybe a Nurgle Herald to keep them very healthy. With the 5" movement and a strat to advance and charge with bonuses to both, they are actually able to get into melee if needed.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Doom Herald

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I'm wondering about running Red Corsairs with 3x20 CSM, and then sorcs/apostles to give them defensive buffs. Force opponents to kill a squad in 1 turn or you just recycle strat. A 2nd detachment isn't a problem for RC, so they can still HQ spam. Add a bunch of terminators/berzerkers/havocs and run 0 vehicles for a skew list.

 

It wouldn't be super competitive, but i think it'd make for some interesting games, although it would be counting on being an infantry skew list.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Drudge Dreadnought

[MegaVolt87]

Definitely interesting to see people looking at infantry heavy lists, I am assuming to play the mission + board control to win. I'll have to change my mindset more to playing the actual mission and not try too hard to attempt to street sweep units away mindlessly like is possible for loyalists. 

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I don't think infantry heavy lists are particularly good on their own, especially for Chaos as our infantry has problems. But I expect so many people to be playing mechanized lists that all infantry skew lists might do well in the meta just because people will be bringing so much anti tank.

[MDops]

I don't think infantry heavy lists are particularly good on their own, especially for Chaos as our infantry has problems. But I expect so many people to be playing mechanized lists that all infantry skew lists might do well in the meta just because people will be bringing so much anti tank.

 

I'm inclined to agree, hellbrutes, fiends and the defiler seem to have come out on top for 9th edition along with the humble rhino.

 

I'm thinking of picking up another hellbrute and venomcrawler and having them as a reasonable mobile fire base or just going ham on marines/bikes/havoks

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

For me, my World Eaters are going the "monster mash" route. Minimal Berserkers plus 2 Helbrutes, a Contemptor, Disco Lord, 2 Maulerfiends, Heldrake, and Red Butchers.

 

Night Lords are finally almost done: Disco Lord, 2 Drakes, Contemptor, 1x15 assault Raptors, 2x5 Melta Raptors, Jump Sorcerer, Jump Lord, 3x5 CSM, and 3 Oblits.

 

Black Legion will be the opposite. Huge infantry and bike hordes advancing and grabbing board control + character spam w/Council of Traitors.

 

Thinking of spamming tanks and Helbrutes with my IW, with the occasional Forgefiend or Oblit bomb.

 

I think I'm actually going to try some Summoning now. Being able to bring in Daemons without sacrificing CP for the additional detachment or Strategic Reserves could be cool, especially since you can go second and tailor both your composition AND positioning to best put the hurt on your opponent. Would be HILARIOUS in a mission that has "Minimize Losses" as an objective, since they aren't part of your army.

[Doctor Perils]

I really want a pair of Defilers, but the models are so meeeeeh...

 

...and I don't know how to convert them! :(

I've milliputed some "Daemon flesh" on the "leg section" to look like the newer Daemon Engines - by no means perfect (especially considering my sculpting skills) but it looks less out of place, and there's fewer pesky details to paint :P

[Brom MKIV]

Greetings! I will be using many of the same units I used in 8th although some will get shelved. I have primarily played XX Legion btw although I enjoy splashing into another legion to find the flavor I like. My favorite splash is Tsons but I also enjoy EC and occasionally go full WE when I wanna get my hands dirty. Anyway the units I will be shelving now, at least initially  are:

 

Oblits

These were like a LOW when combined wtih the old cmd reroll and gaze of fate plus EC and conceal. Now however I feel they are too swingy so I will be dropping them for now. In the future they may return as a unit of 2. 

 

Disco lords

This one is not for certain but I'm now on the fence for multiple reasons. Part I admit is simply model preference and HQ slots.

 

HF deredeo, HF leviathan

These are dead to me now. Meh. I am on the fence about my twin AL contemptors but they feel a tad over costed now.

 

As for what is coming back that had sat the bench recently..

 

Legendary biker lord

We have no problem with legends locally and I really feel like the sniper bike lord is better now. Less characters means his damage is more impactful and he can stand in for previous smite caddys.

 

Cultist hordes

Reduced troops slots due to patrol detachments means I can combine previous msu units into a blob to out-obsec.

 

Tzaangor herd

As with cultists. The concept here is to make them shoot the blobs or lose. This cannot be over stated. Yes primaris are better but they still lose to higher model count obsec. And both these units are great targets for buffs and recursion.

 

Rubric marines

Ritual of the damned brought some really good options and risen strat is just one I plan on using since it gives an alternative to nurglings to access "chaos scouts".

 

Scarab occult terminators!

aka my 'lernaean terminators'. Love this unit anyway and now they are more appealing.

 

Warp talons

I thought hard about these guys and I feel they are still worth including. Only now they will be slogging, possibly under the protection of conceal. Very good for pushing units off objectives and then scoring where guns really just do half the equation now.

 

Zerks

As above. I have often used mechanized zerks in 8th and now I feel they are even better.

 

Defilers and havocs

Two heavy hitter units will see a return in my lists with the latest changes in points. Defilers are really the main reason I have not quite decided on disco lords yet. But pts are tight and the disco is pushing it.

 

Anyway that covers the shell of what I'm building from. Oh and a shout out to spawn if I can squeeze em. PPW these things are the cheapest in the book, fairly durable and can score, perform actions and even assault from strategic reserves out of our DZ if running 4 or more. Turns out they are custom build to shred Pmeqs too.

 

Edit- forgot to add that I think plague marines are gonna be a premier unit in this edition, If I didn't have a personal issue with taking them in my army I'd definitely be including some, or even bringing a DG detachment just to access them as troops.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Brom MKIV

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Vindicators along side Khorne Daemons in a KDK themed list. Always wanted to use Vindis in my KDK Army in 7th. 

[DamnedProphet]

With the new rules for vehicles shooting into melee and heavy weapons, I'm considering buying a pair of Defilers to support a big blob of possessed. It's nice we're not being punished to move-and-shoot daemon engines this edition!

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Man... lots of strange stuff happened this week.  Chaos Space Marines are starting to look like a real army again.  This week I spent quite a lot of time scheming with GW's list app Battlescribe and I thought I would post some stuff I liked and try to pass it off as the only worthwhile ideas about multiwound chaos marines.

 

1.  I really like raptors now.  With 2 wounds and 3 attacks on the charge at ap -1 these guys will be able to put dents into things now. 

 

Word Eaters - 10 man blob

41 attacks with the possibility of ap -2, +1 to wound or both. 

Pre-game 9" move to get closer to objectives, out of LOS, or both. 

 

Night Lords - 5 man

ability to hit on 2s

anti fallback against all those boring as heck shooty lists we all despise. 

super cheap but reliable deep striking

 

The Emperors Children -5 man with 2 meltas+combi melta

deep striking melta, with 6 shots.  Just like eradicators amirite?

Honour the Prince, close to guaranteed charge out of DS if you want to force something to fallback or get onto an objective... probably the single best stratagem for close combat in all of 40k  

 

Red Corsairs - 5 man with 2 flamers+combi flamer

you advance, shoot 3d6 flamers at 12", then charge and chop stuff up with ap -1 chainswords

what is not to like?

 

2. Terminators ... yikes.  Going to 3 wounds is a really huge deal since there are very few weapons that do flat 3 dmg or more but also have high volume.  In 8th edition, most expensive 2 wound models were too vulnerable to plasma or disintegrators.  Assuming that the lack of 3 dmg volume fire remains, terminators will be excellent.

 

Emperors Children -10 man bomb, shooty or choppy, or both.

Honour the Prince turbo charges these guys since you will make a 9" charge at a 95% rate.

Melta or plasma... probably isnt a wrong answer.  Maybe even combi flamers?

Juice them up with drugs to become t5 or s5.

Delightful agonies makes these guys obnoxious to shift.

 

World Eaters - Red Butchers 10 man with chainaxe/bolter

This will likely be the cheapest version of terminators and why not make them able to fight twice?

Pre game movement might allow for these guys to start on the table.

Fight twice allows you to economize on powerfists if you want an anti armour version of this unit.. maybe only 2 chainfists?

 

Black Legion - Bringers of Despair, speculation here!

I expect GW will give Black Legion terminators some special sauce stratagem.  How could they not?

 

3. Chaos Space Marines.  Probably going to 18 points but they are 2x durable vs most weapons.  Assuming they are still able to blob up to 20 I think these guys will be solid.

 

Red Corsair Blobs that dont die.  MoS, with guns or MoK with swords.

So you just run up the table and grab objectvies, block off the table, be annoying.  

Give them delightful agonies if they are MoS.

Pay 2 CP and bring them back like a bunch of ork boyz

 

Black Legion, any flavour.

I like these guys because they have access to full rerolls for 1 CP.  Pretty simple but effective.

World Killers will win games with these guys.

 

 

 

Anyways... anyone else got anything they like?

 

 

[Brom MKIV]

I'm on board with those. Warp talons and zerks also look much better and I just wrote a list with 3x5 csm cbplas/rcc each plus 3x5 zerks right before this info came out. Thats 1 of each squad per rhino backed up by double warp talons double ep blaster contemptors as the basis. Now the list actually feels decent. 

[Doom Herald]

I know I've been saying it a lot, but Creations of Bile still look spectacular to me. S7 Berserkers (includeing Chainaxes) with 7" move plus a strat for advance and charge (with plus 1 to both rolls) makes them nasty. Same with any other infantry and characters getting a further bonus comparable to warlord traits. Plus, T5 & S5 CSM squads have been proving brutal.

 

I also think Red Corsairs CSM squads are even better because they get advance and charge with ObSec and you get objectives in your own command phase, meaning you can deny your opponent with an average per turn movement of 16" on RC CSM squads (19" on Bile units but requiring strat). The two wounds means it's much more likely they will survive the fight phase and deny the objective. I've never had much use for ObSec, but I think that changed.

Edited August 15, 2020 by Doom Herald

[Sonoftherubric21]

Its very nice that both terminators and marines for us have a new lease on life. It gives us a plethora of new options. 

 

I already loved, and used, raptors quite a bit so for me it's a big shift that allows me to plop down a substantial number of marines and raptors. Though I agree that NL and EC will make the best use of them as they can join combat right out of deepstrike.  

 

Trip-melta, plasma, or perhaps even flamer, could be *very* useful this edition. My word bearers make use of 2 drop unit of Raptors (trip melta / trip flamer respectively) given the new rules for both flamers and our extra wounds: these will be seeing the table for sure. Great for removing vehicles or smaller/squishy units from cover or objectives. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Sonoftherubric21

[Snazzy]

I await full points and rules.  Really starting to question if CSM squads should be armed with Chainswords if we get the +1S.  BTW, RIP Chainaxe if nothing changes.

 

I think Bikers will continue to intrigue me.  3 wounds at T5 is nothing to ignore with all that mobile firepower.

[Doom Herald]

I await full points and rules. Really starting to question if CSM squads should be armed with Chainswords if we get the +1S. BTW, RIP Chainaxe if nothing changes.

 

I think Bikers will continue to intrigue me. 3 wounds at T5 is nothing to ignore with all that mobile firepower.

If Chainaxes and Chainswords become the same weapon, I personally wouldn't be bothered but I could see others being.

 

Bikes at 3 wounds will be sweet, I might even do Meltas with them with the new Meltas rules.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

I await full points and rules. Really starting to question if CSM squads should be armed with Chainswords if we get the +1S. BTW, RIP Chainaxe if nothing changes.

 

I think Bikers will continue to intrigue me. 3 wounds at T5 is nothing to ignore with all that mobile firepower.

If Chainaxes and Chainswords become the same weapon, I personally wouldn't be bothered but I could see others being.

 

Bikes at 3 wounds will be sweet, I might even do Meltas with them with the new Meltas rules.

 

I keep wondering what they will do with chainaxes.  I think for zerkers there is no meaningful difference with swords not getting -1ap.  Maybe axes will get +1 attack also... or even better +1 damage.  Hard to say really.  +1 damage would certainly mean their cost would go way up they probably wont get that.  Maybe just ap -2?  

[Brom MKIV]

I've done the math and chain axes and swords are about equal vs t4 but axes win vs t5,9,10 iirc. I think they still have a place for the nominal cost of 1 ppm.

 

But yea I agree I will also be bring 2-4 CS models in a full squad. Helps mitigate the risk of being tarpitted.

 

Edit-my squad will change slightly.. Cbplas/pf champ, 2 rcc base. But 3 of the bolters will become CS.

For min squads I'm not sure anything will change.

 

That said if I run night lords then 2 csm combat squads can become like assault intercessors on the cheap with potential for twin claws or pf. Pretty cool taking functional assault troops from non WE troops section.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Brom MKIV

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I've done the math and chain axes and swords are about equal vs t4 but axes win vs t5,9,10 iirc. I think they still have a place for the nominal cost of 1 ppm.

 

But yea I agree I will also be bring 2-4 CS models in a full squad. Helps mitigate the risk of being tarpitted.

 

Edit-my squad will change slightly.. Cbplas/pf champ, 2 rcc base. But 3 of the bolters will become CS.

For min squads I'm not sure anything will change.

 

That said if I run night lords then 2 csm combat squads can become like assault intercessors on the cheap with potential for twin claws or pf. Pretty cool taking functional assault troops from non WE troops section.

 

What does "2 rcc base" mean?  

 

It is pretty baller to see regular CSM being equal to or better than assault intercessors in combat.  Word Eater CSM with chainswords might even better in many situations. 

 

If possessed goto 3 wounds I think chaos space marines will be in very good shape even with the current awful codex.