CSM in 9th ed- what will you use

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I've heard that chainfists are keeping greater ap but changing to d3 damage while power fists stay at 3 AP but take the flat 2 damage. I suppose they'll have enough attacks that d3 damage won't hurt too much, but my local meta has a lot of deathguard, and the relyability helps. Especially with WE having a strat for -1 additional AP.

[Brom MKIV]

I'm personally happy with the coming change. Mostly because PFs are easier to access. But also because I think the swap makes more sense.

[BrainFireBob]

Getting a Terrax. Probably the Mantic one.

[Cheex]

Very much looking forward to these changes. I don't want to think about it too hard without full context (points changes, Legion Trait updates, etc), but this makes me very excited for my Red Butchers in particular.

 

I wonder if we'll see more power weapons on terminators? Chainaxes are great, but power swords and axes getting another +1S on their current profile makes them tempting. Swords less so on Red Butchers, but I like the idea of S7 power axes.

 

We also haven't seen the stats for power mauls yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them go to S+2 AP-1 D2 like the Crozius. Again, this gets brutal on Red Butchers, especially with the Wild Fury stratagem (further -1 to AP).

[MegaVolt87]

Yeah mauls will be interesting. Its understandable right now, a bespoke crozius has a better stat line than a more common maul. That inital list I did with the Typhon was assuming we stayed as we are, without any old marine buffs. I can just knock that typhon out, soak up any points increases and work from there with our new dex when we get it.

[Snazzy]

A shame we're on the cusp of a Codex release (i suspect).  Those three Deimos Predators i have are ripe for exploiting 2D Heavy Bolters and Killshot.

[Gothical]

I may be going a little crazy here, but I am thinking of running Twin Heavy Bolter + Power Scourge Hellbrutes as dedicated newMEQ hunters and support for CSM squads, then switching my Maulerfiend to have twin Magma Cutters as a dedicated melee armour-hunter. I know the Lasher Tendrils are damn amazing, but I worry my melee options will focus too much on taking on Primaris infantry etc and leave me vulnerable to armoured threats, be it monstrous creatures or tanks. The fixed 3 damage of both its 4 melee attacks and 2 shooting attacks is very appealing, especially if I can keep it within 6" of a Lord Discordant.

 

Is that crazy? Would I be better off with just using the Lord Discordant to attack vehicles? With a second shot the Multi-Melta plus Fist Hellbrute could be very good anti-armour too without requiring support, and is only 2" slower with the loss of the Vigilus detachments. Giving up those 6 attacks really takes away the infantry-blender role from the Maulerfiend, but does it need that role with the upcoming changes?

 

I am struggling as I feel the Venom Crawler, Maulerfiend and Hellbrute are all beginning to overlap a little too much and I can't pick what I want to field.

[Doom Herald]

Personally, I really like the Venomcrawler. If I'm not mistaken it's faster than the other two and packs plenty of offensive output. I think the Venomcrawler is a solid hybrid Daemon Engine where the Maulerfiend is dedicated close range. I haven't looked at the points lately for the Maulerfiend but, if I recall correctly, the Venomcrawler is cheaper. A favorite trick of mine with the Venomcrawler is running it NL and using the fall back and charge strat. With it's mobility, I've used it to shred characters that strayed too close figuring it was locked in combat. Now that we have a smaller board it will probably work even better.

 

I'm looking at Helbrutes too now, though I'm thinking dual Scourges for creations of Bile to best capitalize on the speed and strength buff. The biggest thing going for them is the Elites roll rather than heavy and the Legion Traits applying to them. Then again, Firing Frenzy on a fully ranged set up Helbrute could get ridiculous.

[MegaVolt87]

A shame we're on the cusp of a Codex release (i suspect).  Those three Deimos Predators i have are ripe for exploiting 2D Heavy Bolters and Killshot.

 

Yeah, I am interested in preads myself, had my eye on them for a while now. Might be time to invest. 

[Special Officer Doofy]

A shame we're on the cusp of a Codex release (i suspect). Those three Deimos Predators i have are ripe for exploiting 2D Heavy Bolters and Killshot.

Just remember the Killshot strat only works on regular (Chaos) Predators, not Deimos Pattern Relic Predators or Hellforged Predators.

[MegaVolt87]

 

A shame we're on the cusp of a Codex release (i suspect). Those three Deimos Predators i have are ripe for exploiting 2D Heavy Bolters and Killshot.

Just remember the Killshot strat only works on regular (Chaos) Predators, not Deimos Pattern Relic Predators or Hellforged Predators.

It dosn't matter if you are using them with the CSM dex loadout/ datasheet.

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

 

A shame we're on the cusp of a Codex release (i suspect). Those three Deimos Predators i have are ripe for exploiting 2D Heavy Bolters and Killshot.

Just remember the Killshot strat only works on regular (Chaos) Predators, not Deimos Pattern Relic Predators or Hellforged Predators.

It dosn't matter if you are using them with the CSM dex loadout/ datasheet.

Correct. If you're using them as a cooler looking "count as" chaos predator with it's point cost, wargear and datasheet, that's fine.

 

I was only making sure he knew, when I first started playing again in 8th using my friends models the whole keyword versus name on a datasheet confused me and made me look like a fool once haha.

[Galron]

I still have my massive Iron Warriors army but I rarely bring it out except for big games. Lots of havoks, terminators, and power armored infantry along with heavy tanks and three super heavies. Not really planning on changing it since its designed to be a 30k legion swapped into 40k(I use tyrant terminators as Oblits) in hopes they will revive 30k for a modern edition. I can safely say that in 20+ years this is the first army I have that is completely finished with no plans to add to it.

 

My Emps Children can go in a couple different directions. Still working on a few Noise Marines and other things. Its more a project to allow me to paint a completely different color army than my usual tones, thus why I never paint more than 5 dudes at a time. I have a sonic dred waiting to be worked on along with a spider. By the time I get to them I might have a better plan of action.

 

Night Lords are in limbo, I plan on going terminator heavy with all the new buffs they get, and have multiple squads of 3rd party Raptors to work on and GW Warp Talons(Nice looking but worst GW model in the game to paint). Night Lords are a labor of love since I have had literally 4 armies of them over the last 20+ years. Warp Talons aside (which I have 7 painted completely and am just going to bull through the other three) I have a scheme I like but is very time intensive and will be doing them one at a time. I likely wont be don't with them this edition and I am ok with that.

 

My listing sounds odd, but chaos while being a favorite army to work on to break monotony are not my primary armies any more. I have 4 very different guard armies, 3(maybe 4) distinct loyalist marine armies, a tau army, an Ork army, and a large necron army. Currently my primary focus is on 3 coloring my marines to use them without losing 10 points automatically in normal pick up match plays. 

[Snazzy]

 

A shame we're on the cusp of a Codex release (i suspect).  Those three Deimos Predators i have are ripe for exploiting 2D Heavy Bolters and Killshot.

 

Yeah, I am interested in preads myself, had my eye on them for a while now. Might be time to invest. 

 

 

Cut rate TL Lascannons and Combi-Melta/Plasma at 130 isn't too bad.  

[Schurge]

I'm thinking...

 

World Eaters:

 

Daemon Prince - Dual Claws / Hungering Plate / True Berserker / MoK

Lord Discordant - Autocannon / MoK

Lord Discordant - Autocannon / MoK

 

Berserkers (8) - Powerfist x1 / Chainaxe x7 / Chainsword x8

Berserkers (8) - Powerfist x1 / Chainaxe x7 / Chainsword x8

Berserkers (8) - Powerfist x1 / Chainaxe x7 / Chainsword x8

 

Bikers (6) - Chainsword x6 / Combi-bolter x6 / Meltagun x2 / MoK

Bikers (6) - Chainsword x6 / Combi-bolter x6 / Meltagun x2 / MoK

 

Heldrake - Baleflamer / MoK

Heldrake - Baleflamer / MoK

 

Rhino - MoK

Rhino - MoK

Rhino - MoK

 

2000pts

 

Three waves of death.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Schurge

[BadgersinHills]

I want 50 regular marines in my list and one 20 man squad of them will have chainswords.

 

Because it is cool. 

[dice4thedicegod]

I like the idea of helbrutes... but they are the natural target of Multi-meltas and eradicators. Eradicators cost the same as a twin scourge helbrute and I can’t see 6 shots failing to eradicate it before it achieves anything.

 

I’m thinking.... bullet sponges are needed. Apoplectic frenzied mutilators or a big block of chaos spawn ... damage dealing characters hide behind

[MegaVolt87]

Thats the thing with hellbrute, one is just there to die and be annoying, two if you want to achieve anything. General rule of thumb, a single unit is a distraction/ setup piece, two or more duplicate units is a strategy. 

[Sonoftherubric21]

I want 50 regular marines in my list and one 20 man squad of them will have chainswords.

 

Because it is cool. 

 

I fully intend to flood the board with marines in at least ONE of my chaos lists. 

 

Given I have BL, IW, and WB, I have room but my Irons in particular are a more static force minus the Engine module, so I am very tempted to do it with the BL or WB.

 

Need to see what happens when our codex hits. Once we see what our traits will finally become I fully intend on committing a bunch of extra models to whichever army turns out best for "marine tide" in 9th. Speaking of I have 25 raptors that ATM I honestly don't know whom to put them with, so everything is in Limbo until we get some specific information for our tactics!!! 

[Marshal Loss]

Hopefully the codex isn't too far off. Knowing that these goodies are coming but not knowing when is such a tease. :P

[Special Officer Doofy]

I'm curious about the point changes associated with them. I'm sure my plague marines are going up a decent amount. Which is fair. I just want to know already though haha!

[Espresso]

I have played several Crusade games with the following Black Legion list:

 

Master of Possession (Trusted War Leader)

5 CSM (Plasma Gun)

5 CSM (Autocannon)

1 Obliterator

1 Venomcrawler

 

I have played against a Knight Styrix and against a Space Wolves Wulfen heavy list. 25 PL, so they were full of wargear. 

 

Against the Knight I managed to reduce him to 7 wounds. I have lost the game for 10 points. 

 

Against the Space Wolves I have won and I have tabled my opponent and scored 15 points more than him. 

 

Overall I had mixed feelings with my Chaos Space Marines. On one hand the MoP, Obliterator and Venomcrawler are dangerous enough that they cannot be ignored and between the three they have the potential to kill most of the nasty stuff at 25-50 PL. 

 

On the other hand the CSM die very easily, cover or not. They last a bit longer than the cultists but that is all. Everything that the loyalist can field in their troop choices can make short work of my CSM. Hell a Grey Hunters Sergeant has become a Lone Wolf and he singlehandedly killed an entire unit of 5 CSM. 

[Doom Herald]

I have played several Crusade games with the following Black Legion list:

 

Master of Possession (Trusted War Leader)

5 CSM (Plasma Gun)

5 CSM (Autocannon)

1 Obliterator

1 Venomcrawler

 

I have played against a Knight Styrix and against a Space Wolves Wulfen heavy list. 25 PL, so they were full of wargear.

 

Against the Knight I managed to reduce him to 7 wounds. I have lost the game for 10 points.

 

Against the Space Wolves I have won and I have tabled my opponent and scored 15 points more than him.

 

Overall I had mixed feelings with my Chaos Space Marines. On one hand the MoP, Obliterator and Venomcrawler are dangerous enough that they cannot be ignored and between the three they have the potential to kill most of the nasty stuff at 25-50 PL.

 

On the other hand the CSM die very easily, cover or not. They last a bit longer than the cultists but that is all. Everything that the loyalist can field in their troop choices can make short work of my CSM. Hell a Grey Hunters Sergeant has become a Lone Wolf and he singlehandedly killed an entire unit of 5 CSM.

For the CSM squads, I've found that a Powerfist on the Champion makes them MUCH more dangerous. For smaller games, I've found it quite effective against Primaris and Terminators. It seems to be a little less effective the bigger the game gets though, which is unfortunate because you have less points to spend in a smaller game. Did you wind the Plasma Gun or Autocannon to be of more use?

[Espresso]

In the first game the Plasma Gun managed to put 2 wounds on the knight, but it killed its bearer due to overheat. In the second game it did nothing since the Wulfen and the Wolf Lord were in melee in the first turn. 

 

The autocannon did plink at the knight but my adversary has managed to do all the saves. In the second turn it did nothing since due to my error in the positioning I had to move around in order to grab the objectives. It was the first marine removed when the Lone Wolf charged the squad. 

[Doom Herald]

Keep in mind that CSM will be going up to two wounds (but so will loyalist Marines). Did you remember Death to the False Emperor? It's fairly common people forget it since it doesn't apply to every opponent.

 

CSM squads aren't really hard hitters anyway, they're bodies but sturdier and stronger than Cultists. They also have a smaller footprint than 10 cultists and when they increase to two wounds each, both minimum size units will be the same wounds. If you have Cultist models, I would suggest trying them if you are unsure. That said, I personally feel that in most cases a 5-man CSM squad is preferable to 10-man Cultists.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Doom Herald