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AdMech: PA Units in 9th Edition


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#26
BolterZorro

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With 6 robots, 6 kataphrons, 3 duneriders and 3 (upcoming) balistarii (or dragons), do I need a tank(scorpion) for AT?

(for now, I'll go the archeopter route according to your advice)



#27
MajorNese

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Robots are hardly AT, duneriders are chaff fire, so you got 6 kataphron for AT. Those will kill a vehicle or two, if they're plasma destroyers, but are still rather easy to remove.

No onagers? Those would be the direct contestant for AT, and before the skorpius released, our go-to solution.

Balistarii seem perfect for 9th, as they can now move and fire without penalty, while Dragoons became worse in the recent FAQ.


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#28
BolterZorro

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Robots are hardly AT, duneriders are chaff fire, so you got 6 kataphron for AT. Those will kill a vehicle or two, if they're plasma destroyers, but are still rather easy to remove.

No onagers? Those would be the direct contestant for AT, and before the skorpius released, our go-to solution.

Balistarii seem perfect for 9th, as they can now move and fire without penalty, while Dragoons became worse in the recent FAQ.

Oops! my bad : I have no duneriders but 3 onagers.  So, no need for the AT skorpion?

And with all those former units, I feel that my army probably needs some faster units (like serberys or pteraxii),  doesn't it? (already have 10 unassembled sicarians).



#29
DeStinyFiSh

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With Mars Canticle Robots become S7 AP-2 and can dish out mortals with Wraith of Mars. I think in that specific Forgeworld they are pretty competent in removing tanks.

Ironstriders work good against Tanks as well. S7 base wounds most vehicles on 4+. With the new Stratagem you can improve it to 3+. With Mars Canticle it will even be S8 wounding on 2s.


Edited by DeStinyFiSh, 05 August 2020 - 11:55 AM.


#30
MajorNese

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Robots are hardly AT, duneriders are chaff fire, so you got 6 kataphron for AT. Those will kill a vehicle or two, if they're plasma destroyers, but are still rather easy to remove.

No onagers? Those would be the direct contestant for AT, and before the skorpius released, our go-to solution.

Balistarii seem perfect for 9th, as they can now move and fire without penalty, while Dragoons became worse in the recent FAQ.

Oops! my bad : I have no duneriders but 3 onagers.  So, no need for the AT skorpion?

And with all those former units, I feel that my army probably needs some faster units (like serberys or pteraxii),  doesn't it? (already have 10 unassembled sicarians).

In that case, 3 onagers and 3 balistarii should be enough anti tank. 2x5 (or with Mars, 1x10) Infiltrators should be useful, also since they can deep strike without requiring CP. Pteraxii do pretty much the same (but with wings), so the flyer should bring the most versatility out of the mentioned options.

 

And yes, Mars canticle is bonkers. S5 stubbers, S7 heavy prosphor, S8-9 plasma, S7-8 Icarus array, S8 autocannons...that's easily the single best upgrade from Engine War.


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#31
Prot

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Robots are hardly AT, duneriders are chaff fire, so you got 6 kataphron for AT. Those will kill a vehicle or two, if they're plasma destroyers, but are still rather easy to remove.

No onagers? Those would be the direct contestant for AT, and before the skorpius released, our go-to solution.

Balistarii seem perfect for 9th, as they can now move and fire without penalty, while Dragoons became worse in the recent FAQ.

Oops! my bad : I have no duneriders but 3 onagers.  So, no need for the AT skorpion?

And with all those former units, I feel that my army probably needs some faster units (like serberys or pteraxii),  doesn't it? (already have 10 unassembled sicarians).

 

 

My first question would be: Are you playing Mars? Makes a big difference. I've always played Mars and in every edition I'd be a touch light on anti-tank and just lean hard on the Mars strat for extra mortal wounds when needed. It's a bit risky, but other Forgeworlds definitely do better with Plasma. So it depends what you play.

 

The only reason I have the Skorpion Disintegrator is the indirect. It's too expensive now, and it's a real mixed bag of weaponry. In the last 15-20 games I've played, without at least one tank for indirect, I would be in trouble. I believe you can get around this, but new Obscurring terrain rules give your assaulty opponents a lot more opportunity to hide, and then reach you in CC quickly.

 

But yes, I agree the Ballistarii are in a better place now.... a unit hardly ever touched in 8th has become 'solid' in 9th just simply due to the multiple core rules changes. 

 

Onagers are a sore spot with me. I think they should be ferocious little death boxes against hard targets, but they are still D3 and now Blast which is more of a detriment than a help now.  I know some people like them.... I relate them to the space marine "Landraider"; Iconic, fluffy, and very antiquated. 

 

With Mars Canticle Robots become S7 AP-2 and can dish out mortals with Wraith of Mars. I think in that specific Forgeworld they are pretty competent in removing tanks.

Ironstriders work good against Tanks as well. S7 base wounds most vehicles on 4+. With the new Stratagem you can improve it to 3+. With Mars Canticle it will even be S8 wounding on 2s.

 

- I have found this to be true as well. But again I've always played Mars. I have a friend who plays Ryza (or whatever it is) that makes his Plasma amazing. But as Mars, I have not really been big on Destroyers, and I will say the Kastelan dakka bots are actually not bad in CC during shooting phases.

 

In 8th edition I had an easy out: Knights. But they are really in an awkward spot and this is another bone of contention I have with GW... the Knights are in our codex, but still awkward as heck to fit into a list! 

 

In truth most of my opponents have noted that my lack of strong damage against very tough (T8) multiwound units is a problem I have. (Well that and big CC rushing armies). I just live with it, however I would add I've never owned the Forgeworld Drills and I have admech friends that do quite well with them.(Melta)


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#32
BolterZorro

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And yes, Mars canticle is bonkers. S5 stubbers, S7 heavy prosphor, S8-9 plasma, S7-8 Icarus array, S8 autocannons...that's easily the single best upgrade from Engine War.

This is super scary for....admech players: such an obvious choice never last too long. rolleyesclean.gif

I hope I can bet on mars then. I'll go for the copter then.

Since I'll order an minimum of 3 balistarii and 2 kataphrons boxes, how many are optimum?

- balistarii

- kataphrons? (will got 6 then, so I'll play 1 unit of 5? or is it interesting to get another box and play 5+4?)



#33
brother_b

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It is tough when one of the best or the best forgeworld continues to get the juiciest upgrades.

I bought three boxes, I’ve been looking at eBay for a single model buy. I’ll run five and five I’m just torn between going full Raiders to force my opponent to deal with that, or doing five of each.
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#34
MajorNese

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It is tough when one of the best or the best forgeworld continues to get the juiciest upgrades.

I mean others (like Lucius) too have interesting upgrades, but a good canticle without Cawl's +-1 is effectively a one-time deal, suitable for specific lists, not a whole-game strategy like any other army.

 

But yeah, Mars is simply the best choice, except for rather specific lists.


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#35
Black_Knight

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No matter how much I love my little spider tanks, they do nothing most of the time. Even if you get three attacks they will fail to wound/hit an invul save. Volume of fire is key, especially with Wrath of Mars.


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#36
Prot

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It is tough when one of the best or the best forgeworld continues to get the juiciest upgrades.

I bought three boxes, I’ve been looking at eBay for a single model buy. I’ll run five and five I’m just torn between going full Raiders to force my opponent to deal with that, or doing five of each.

 

Yea I was going to do this as well, but after 2 test games, I'm going to put the idea on hiatus.

 

I have this feeling we may see something else come out. I only say this because when someone cracked open the Warhammer App, they found references in the code to Dark Mechanicum. So I wonder how many of these new units are really just going to be ported over to a 'mirror' army, and that's why we are seeing a few squads come out which are  in a weird place.

 

So I am waiting now until the new codex comes out. For now I'll stick to the old stuff, and my Archeopters. 


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#37
Magos Takatus

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There was a lot of comparisons between the Sulphurhounds and the Raiders when the units dropped but I'm more concerned about the comparison between the Sulphurhounds and the Sterylizors. Both have flamer weapons and similar movement/strength/toughness. The Pteraxii are paying for 3+ ballistic skill which they aren't using but the flyboys can relocate which could prove useful. The Pteraxii are 1 point more expensive from what I can tell. The Rad Saturation rule looks interesting but I don't know if that would come into play that regularly.

 

With very little in-game experience I don't know which would fare better. Would the ability to fire pistols into combat make the Sulphurhounds better or would the Steylizors be more useful with their stratagem to lock units into combat?


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#38
BolterZorro

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I'm a bit lost also with the flyboys and the cavalry.

Also, I think that infiltrators/rustalkers need some adjusment. Their roles is redundant with the units above but what they do is worse than the new units for more points.

I have 10 rustalker/infiltr&ators, not assembled and I actually have ZERO idea what do do with them and which build to assemble. (Maybe the infiltrators for their ability  but dunno)



#39
MajorNese

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I'm a bit lost also with the flyboys and the cavalry.

Also, I think that infiltrators/rustalkers need some adjusment. Their roles is redundant with the units above but what they do is worse than the new units for more points.

I have 10 rustalker/infiltr&ators, not assembled and I actually have ZERO idea what do do with them and which build to assemble. (Maybe the infiltrators for their ability  but dunno)

Everyone has Infiltrators in spades - of course the new kit is better in every aspect.

Maybe they'll adjust this in the next codex, or the one after, when everyone has flyboys in spades.


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