If I were to add just one new unit.... and a rules question

[sturguard]

Ok folks,

 

I think I am going to have to run primarily a dreadnought style list as I just am not going to buy 3 new primaris troops and of course then you need transports etc...

 

I have 4 dreads, 1 Bjorn, 1 dread that I can put any type of shooting weapon on it- dual lascannons, pfist and shield, assault cannon/missile launcher etc, and 2 dread that can be claw/shield, axe/shield, or axe/claw- so could be Murderfang, Wulfen dreads etc.

 

So if I could add one unit to my army, what would it be? Would it be one of the new dreadnought kits, if so which one? Would it be a Leviathan Dread- as I have one of those mostly assembled right now. What would you add and why? Impulsor and unit of primaris? Invictor, Redemptor Dread. what?

 

I think I am going to run 2 squads of grey hunters in Razorbacks with assault cannons, then I could run a squad of BCs in a rhino or just a unit of my 30k Primaris Intercessors for backfield objectives. Again, what unit would best synergize with a bunch of dreads, and 2 units of GHs in razors?

 

Also, with dreads shooting while engaged- the only time I would think this might happen is if they stay stuck in a combat for over a turn right? I mean my dread moves, it shoots, it charges, the combat sticks. My opponent moves, shoots, assaults, combat stays stuck, finally my turn, during my shooting phase the dreadnought gets to shoot right?

 

The other thing I dont understand is the understrength unit. So according to the rulebook it says a 5 man squad is not an under strength unit (it has to deal with casualties. So how come some of the detachments say you cant have any understrength units? I dont understand how you can start the game with understrength units?

[Bryan Blaire]

I believe the understrength unit thing is a legacy of GW selling the 3 man ETB Reivers, Intercessors, and Plague Marines - running those would be an understrength unit. Previously, I believe that some elements would let you have one understrength unit.

[TiguriusX]

Add 1 unit?

 

Easy...eradicator

 

These things are OP and need to be nerfed.

 

6 melta shots for 120 points (fire at single target duh). Spend a CP to use our special outflank and you can literally pop out anywhere turn 2 and drop most tanks

 

Your dreads should be built for close combat and hog all the objectives

 

This is a dread heavy list I am contemplating.

 

You do NOT need a battalion.

 

Patrol and vanguard only cost 2 CP after Bjorns bonus

 

Not needing tax troops is awesome!

Bjorn and Murderfang count as protected if they stay next to one another.

 

Hide an infiltrator out of LOS and Bjorn can basically stand in the open for deployment with no fear

 

Dreads need to stand on objectives and survive to score points. If troops come near you HI into them and kill them in melee to stop objective secured tricks

 

The cyber wolves are free points when you pick (1) engage on all fronts or (2) linebreaker

 

1 CP to reserve all 3 wolves and you send them to whatever part of the board you need to score and then die

 

 

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [64 PL, -4CP, 1,147pts] ++

 

+ Configuration [-3CP] +

 

Detachment CP [-3CP]

 

+ Stratagems [-1CP] +

 

Trophies of Fenris [-1CP]: Trophies of Fenris - 1 Extra Relic [-1CP]

 

+ HQ [17 PL, , 285pts] +

 

Bjorn the Fell-handed [12 PL, 1CP, 210pts]: Heavy flamer [15pts], Trueclaw, Twin lascannon [40pts]

 

Iron Priest [5 PL, -1CP, 75pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Helfrost pistol [5pts], Saga of the Hunter, Servo-arm, Stratagem: Hero of The Chapter [-1CP], Tempest hammer [20pts], The Armour of Russ

 

+ Elites [25 PL, 367pts] +

 

Murderfang [9 PL, 135pts]: Heavy flamer, Storm bolter, The Murderclaws

 

Wulfen Dreadnought [8 PL, 116pts]

. Great Wolf Claw and Blizzard Shield [41pts]

. . Blizzard Shield [18pts]: Blizzard shield [15pts], Storm bolter [3pts]

. . Great Wolf Claw [23pts]: Great Wolf Claw [20pts], Storm bolter [3pts]

 

Wulfen Dreadnought [8 PL, 116pts]

. Great Wolf Claw and Blizzard Shield [41pts]

. . Blizzard Shield [18pts]: Blizzard shield [15pts], Storm bolter [3pts]

. . Great Wolf Claw [23pts]: Great Wolf Claw [20pts], Storm bolter [3pts]

 

+ Fast Attack [1 PL, 15pts] +

 

Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts]

. Cyberwolf [1 PL, 15pts]: Teeth and claws

 

+ Heavy Support [21 PL, 480pts] +

 

Eradicator Squad [5 PL, 120pts]

. 2x Eradicator [80pts]: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Melta rifle

. Eradicator Sgt [40pts]: Bolt pistol, Melta rifle

 

Relic Leviathan Dreadnought [16 PL, 360pts]: 2x Heavy flamer [30pts], 2x Hunter-killer missile [10pts], Storm cannon array [50pts], Storm cannon array [50pts]

 

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [47 PL, 12CP, 851pts] ++

 

+ Configuration [12CP] +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) [12CP]

 

Detachment CP

 

+ HQ [12 PL, 205pts] +

 

Rune Priest in Phobos Armour [6 PL, 100pts]: 1) Shrouding, 5) Tenebrous Curse, Bolt pistol, Camo cloak [2pts], Frag & Krak grenades, Runic sword, Smite, Wolf Tail Talisman

 

Wolf Priest [6 PL, 105pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate, Crozius arcanum, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack [1 PL, 25pts], Saga of Majesty, Tale of the Wolf King and the Lord of the Deeps

. Warlord: Warlord

 

+ Troops [10 PL, 240pts] +

 

Infiltrator Squad [5 PL, 120pts]

. 4x Infilltrator [96pts]: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Sergeant [24pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Marksman bolt carbine

 

Infiltrator Squad [5 PL, 120pts]

. 4x Infilltrator [96pts]: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Sergeant [24pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Marksman bolt carbine

 

+ Elites [18 PL, 256pts] +

 

Venerable Dreadnought [9 PL, 128pts]: Heavy plasma cannon [20pts]

. Great Wolf Claw and Storm Bolter [23pts]: Storm bolter

 

Venerable Dreadnought [9 PL, 128pts]: Heavy plasma cannon [20pts]

. Great Wolf Claw and Storm Bolter [23pts]: Storm bolter

 

+ Fast Attack [2 PL, 30pts] +

 

Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts]

. Cyberwolf [1 PL, 15pts]: Teeth and claws

 

Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts]

. Cyberwolf [1 PL, 15pts]: Teeth and claws

 

+ Heavy Support [5 PL, 120pts] +

 

Eradicator Squad [5 PL, 120pts]

. 2x Eradicator [80pts]: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Melta rifle

. Eradicator Sgt [40pts]: Bolt pistol, Melta rifle

 

++ Total: [111 PL, 8CP, 1,998pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

Edited August 1, 2020 by TiguriusX

[sturguard]

Tigurius,

 

I think Id rather have the Leviathan out of your list. I can always make a few guys put some shapeways guns on them and call them eradicators. And honestly, if they are that op right now, Im sure after they sell enough models, the will tone them down. If I am going to get a model and get it painted, Id rather go for something that has longevity as well- hence the Leviathan. 

 

What is the loop hole with Bjorn and Muderfang, seems too gamey for me, Im not going to be playing any tournaments, just game store games.

Edited August 1, 2020 by sturguard

[TiguriusX]

Tigurius,

 

I think Id rather have the Leviathan out of your list. I can always make a few guys put some shapeways guns on them and call them eradicators. And honestly, if they are that op right now, Im sure after they sell enough models, the will tone them down. If I am going to get a model and get it painted, Id rather go for something that has longevity as well- hence the Leviathan. 

 

What is the loop hole with Bjorn and Muderfang, seems too gamey for me, Im not going to be playing any tournaments, just game store games.

 

Expect the leviathan to get a nerf when Forgeworld reboots the codex.  It is also OP right now but not as much as eradicators

 

However...I love a space wolf leviathan.  Chooser of the slain + leviathan is so fun.  You want to alpha strike me from reserve?  Sure...just don't come within 24" of my leviathan lolz

 

 

The loophole is the current LOOK OUT SIR rule...basically character targeting.

 

Right now you get protected if you are near a vehicle or monster.  Well both Bjorn and Murderfang are vehicles.  So they provide the character protection under the rule.

I think the rule should have been Day 1 errata/FAQ corrected to say NON CHARACTER vehicle or monster.  But the GW team left it as is.  It was a hotly debated subject just like the storm shield and GW only corrected 1 of those so it may stick around a bit longer

[sturguard]

Im not sure I mind the twin ac razorbacks with GH as a tax though. I mean you already have alot of armor so they shouldnt be a high priority to kill and if you opponent targets them, the dreads live longer. I can use the razorbacks to look out sir for Bjorn and Murderfang and if the razorbacks get popped, they have to clear the GH as well before you can target the dreads. I guess my issue is with the third troop choice. I was looking at a Battlion and Supreme Command

[sturguard]

See how can people defend GWs rules writing when its clear garbage like that- that not only gets through the writing of the rules but the errata day 1. I thought gamers playtested this edition (they say that every edition)- and they missed that?

 

Yeah but even if the Leviathan gets a rules nerf it is such a cool model. The eradicators are just a marine with a meltagun, already got plenty of guys that look like that. I just didnt know if someone would go to bat for the redemptor instead of the leviathan.

 

In your example, the eradicators wouldnt do so well against a SW army with chooser and a Leviathan :)

Edited August 1, 2020 by sturguard

[TiguriusX]

Im not sure I mind the twin ac razorbacks with GH as a tax though. I mean you already have alot of armor so they shouldnt be a high priority to kill and if you opponent targets them, the dreads live longer. I can use the razorbacks to look out sir for Bjorn and Murderfang and if the razorbacks get popped, they have to clear the GH as well before you can target the dreads. I guess my issue is with the third troop choice. I was looking at a Battlion and Supreme Command

 

Supreme command?

 

We have nothing that can use supreme command...it no longer gives 3 HQs and we have none of the special units that qualify.

 

 

If you only need 2 troops I strongly suggest looking at the patrol detachment instead of battalion.  Saving the points from that tax will help offset the cost of your dreads (especially a leviathan)

[TiguriusX]

See how can people defend GWs rules writing when its clear garbage like that- that not only gets through the writing of the rules but the errata day 1. I thought gamers playtested this edition (they say that every edition)- and they missed that?

 

Yeah but even if the Leviathan gets a rules nerf it is such a cool model. The eradicators are just a marine with a meltagun, already got plenty of guys that look like that. I just didnt know if someone would go to bat for the redemptor instead of the leviathan.

 

GW addressed it by sending venerable chaplain dreads to LEGENDS

 

Not many codexes allow you to exploit the current LOOK OUT SIR rule and have invulnerable HQs

 

Oddly enough the Blood Angels and their Librarian dreadnoughts get the edge here now...

[sturguard]

The Supreme Command shows the icon for a HQ. Primarch Daemon Primarch are both Lords of War right? Whats a supreme commander unit?

[TiguriusX]

The Supreme Command shows the icon for a HQ. Primarch Daemon Primarch are both Lords of War right? Whats a supreme commander unit?

 

We have no idea what a supreme commander unit is right now...but it is likely something special and equivalent to the primarchs we know

 

"this detachment can only include one primarch, daemon primarch or supreme commander unit"

 

The days of adding free HQs are over my friend

[sturguard]

What is a leviathan- heavy or elite? I might be best with double patrols. With Bjorn that would be just 1 CP. 

[TiguriusX]

What is a leviathan- heavy or elite? I might be best with double patrols. With Bjorn that would be just 1 CP. 

Leviathan is a heavy and it has a "relic" rule requiring a non relic heavy in the same detachment

[sturguard]

So would a unit of long fangs fulfill that requirement? How does a redemptor compare to a leviathan- points, damage output etc?

Edited August 1, 2020 by sturguard

[TiguriusX]

So would a unit of long fangs fulfill that requirement? How does a redemptor compare to a leviathan- points, damage output etc?

 

Get battlescribe...it will answer all your questions

 

Yes a unit of LF qualify for the leviathan tax

[Triszin]

I would suggest waiting a bit more.

 

We  (wolves ) might really like the heavy intercessors.

[Valerian]

The eradicators are just a marine with a meltagun, already got plenty of guys that look like that. )

They are in Gravis Armour, too, though. That T5 and extra Wound (3 total), makes a difference. And the Melta Rifle is an Assault multi-melta- so much better than a standard Melta gun.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Erdicators are really good for us assuming we keep the outflank theme and still have an outflank strat.

 

I have had some success with invictor warsuits but I'd really recommend two of them if you go that route. The forward deployment really helps in alot of missions.

[Debauchery101]

I honestly don't think the Eradicators are that OP. The unit doesn't have extra bodies to buffer melta loss kinda like suppressors.

 

Looking at Las Fusil Eliminators vs Eradicators

The eliminators have range, flat dmg and hit/armor modifiers with camo

The Eradicators have t5, 3w and double fire but d6 damage.

 

Even if all 6 shots go through you can easily fail to bust down 15+ wound targets. This is why i choose to take 2 Eradicators squads.

 

I think the adjustment they need is to reduce the range from 24" to 18" that way when they outflank/deepstrike they arent getting the melta rule.

[TiguriusX]

I honestly don't think the Eradicators are that OP. The unit doesn't have extra bodies to buffer melta loss kinda like suppressors.

 

They don't need bodies. Eradicators are an alpha strike unit.

 

Show up...kill a prime target with 6 melta shots then expect them to die.

 

With 24" range and outflank our eradicators should be able to line up a shot at any vehicle on the board

 

If they survive for another round it is all bonus

 

Las fusil eliminators cost 3x as much to get a similar 6 shots

[Debauchery101]

 

I honestly don't think the Eradicators are that OP. The unit doesn't have extra bodies to buffer melta loss kinda like suppressors.

 

They don't need bodies. Eradicators are an alpha strike unit.

 

Show up...kill a prime target with 6 melta shots then expect them to die.

 

With 24" range and outflank our eradicators should be able to line up a shot at any vehicle on the board

 

If they survive for another round it is all bonus

 

Las fusil eliminators cost 3x as much to get a similar 6 shots

well i think you're focused too much on the potential damage output vs what actually happens on the table. The outflank for sure is the best manuever. But you have to factor other things like screening your entry points. Manipulating your positioning and/movement to actually shoot something they are most effective against.

 

Mostly I've been playing a couple games a day against the varied marine factions, admech, deathguard and Knights. Each one of these factions with 9th have plentiful CP at the beginning of the match to use stratagems for a counter. Death Guard and fnp really make these a lot weaker. Plus the variable damage still is super annoying.

 

Look im not trying to say youre wrong I'm just saying how they work out for me. These guys look way better on paper than on the board. I would suggest looking at a venderable dread with a plasma cannon.. they last longer, move faster and a have a more reliable dmg output. But if youre trying use your elite slots for other stuff then Eradicators are a good choice

[Lord Blackwood]

Erdicators are really good for us assuming we keep the outflank theme and still have an outflank strat.

 

I have had some success with invictor warsuits but I'd really recommend two of them if you go that route. The forward deployment really helps in alot of missions.

I also think that right now this is a cant miss unit. 

 

They are criminally undercoated for what they  do and we have the proper stratagem to get them onto a board edge to get their job done. 

[Valerian]

 

Looking at Las Fusil Eliminators vs Eradicators

 

 

I've been using 2 packs of Las Fusil Eliminators and 1 pack of Eradicators together.  Those 3 units do a hell of a lot of work, although they do it in somewhat different ways from one another.

 

So far, the Eradicators are easily the MVP unit for me from the Indomitus selections.  

[Debauchery101]

 

 

 

Looking at Las Fusil Eliminators vs Eradicators

 

I've been using 2 packs of Las Fusil Eliminators and 1 pack of Eradicators together. Those 3 units do a hell of a lot of work, although they do it in somewhat different ways from one another.

 

So far, the Eradicators are easily the MVP unit for me from the Indomitus selections.

The last few games I've used them to come in later in the game. I got a few good chain going once my dreads got into midfield for close combat. I would blast something just enough so a dread or ragnar could charge in to get the deathblow then push into another unit or duck for cover. At that point on turn 3 or 4 most people rather eat the meltas vs ignore SW units that have 6+ str 8+ attacks within 12 inches