184 replies to this topic

[Lemondish]

Update: From Ishagu and Minsc, new datasheet details for the Firestrike Servo and Invader ATV.


 

For context, the models in question: 

 

Firestrike Servo-Turret

Invader ATV

 

Random musings: 

 

Onslaught Gatling Cannon is now Heavy 8 from Heavy 6 - I would not assume the heavy adjusts upwards at all. 

Multi-Meltas are now Heavy 2 from Heavy 1, and includes a crazy new melta rule that boosts the average half-range damage potential by 23%. I do not expect that new melta rule to apply to all melta weapons, however. 

Twin Accelerator auto cannon is Heavy 6, but the closest weapon we have to this in the Primaris line is just a single accelerator autocannon on Suppressors that is Heavy 2 (implying twins would be Heavy 4, even though there aren't any). Seems a valid boost for a unit that lost a lot of value following the removal of always on overwatch. 

Original:
Like the Necron sheets in the other thread, there's apparently been a data sheet leak of the Invictor with some interesting weapon profile changes. Supposedly found in a new box.



1. Heavy Bolter changed to 1 shot with S5/AP-1/2D — unknown if this is going to be a new bespoke weapon for the Invictor going forward, or an updated heavy bolter profile. I expected 2D so it kept pace with Onslaught on damage and points, but I can't imagine all heavy bolters got to one shot. Would be really bad lol
2. Ironhail Heavy Stubbers listed as Heavy 8, S4/AP-1/1D (currently Heavy 3 S4/AP-1/1D) — the old instruction book showed the full datasheet, so I don't know if this one is including the shots for both stubbers, or if they're actually going up to 8 shots each. I'd bet on the former.
3. Twin Accelerator Autocannon is S7/AP-2/2D (currently S7/AP-1/2D)
4. Incendium Cannon is S6/AP-1/1D (currently S5/AP-1/1D)

Edited by Lemondish, 05 August 2020 - 01:13 PM.

[Vanger]

My guess would be that the invictors sidearm will be changed to a heavy bolt rifle instead of a heavy bolter.

[PiñaColada]

I'm not loving these symbols, are they here so it's just one page instead of it being translated into like 6 different ones? I hope it doesn't become the norm in codices and the like..

Regarding the stats, the incendium cannon becoming S6 is huge for anti-chaff purposes and the ironhails getting extra shots is cute I guess. The heavy bolt pistol better be a completely different statline than a normal HB, because 1 shot feels incredibly wrong (and weak). I do like the fact that all the weapons (except for the fists) have changed though, that gives me hope that GW has looked at a few worthless weapon profiles across factions and altered those. Some things don't work regardless of how cheap they are so that's really exciting!

[Panzer]

My guess would be that the invictors sidearm will be changed to a heavy bolt rifle instead of a heavy bolter.

 

Sounds plausible. If true we might see a lot of Heavy Intercessors considering D2 is pretty nasty against all those Primaris Troops we will be seeing in this heavy objective focussed edition. ^^

[MARK0SIAN]

I’m really not liking these symbols. Especially the fact they don’t even list the weapon name by each profile, just a number and expect you to keep referring back to the pictures. I hope this isn’t the standard way forward!

[SirJyo]

Maybe it's an international type datasheet?

The simplicity leads me to think it could potentially be an ETB invictor?

[Panzer]

It's most likely just a thing for boxes anyway. I couldn't care less. ^^

[Kain Mor]

It's most likely just a thing for boxes anyway. I couldn't care less. ^^

Yeah let’s be real, how often do you use the datasheets that come in the box? I think I only have once, and that was back when I got my very first box of models.

[Captain Smashy Pants]

The heavy bolter is either a misprint, or it's the new heavy bolter rifle we are hearing about.

[AenarIT]

Maybe it's an international type datasheet?

The simplicity leads me to think it could potentially be an ETB invictor?

It has both weapon option so I'd say it's unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely.

[Minsc]

Looks like the Invictors Heavy Bolter got turned into a "Really Heavy Bolt Pistol".

[quasistellar]

These look suspiciously like Warcry stat symbols. Makes me wonder if this is going to be the new style, or if they're introducing another new game system. Kill team seems to be dead, after all. (I don't actually think they're doing a new system)

The 8 shots is for 2 heavy stubbers, which explains the price increase, and I don't see special rules for using the HB as a pistol, which makes sense since it can fire into combat during the shooting phase anyway. One shot at 2 damage is absolutely terrible for the price though.

Edited by quasistellar, 04 August 2020 - 11:17 AM.

[Juggernut]

The symbols are a part of standard 40k, to say nothing else of what they might be a part of.

Page 7 of the core rules pack.

The weapon types aren’t in the list of symbols on that page, however. Those are on page 17.

Edited by Juggernut, 04 August 2020 - 11:27 AM.

[Jukkiz]

same kinda symbols were on collector cards in Space marine heroes series 1&2

[Captain Coolpants]

Symbols are ugly and pointless. Because there will have to be a legend somewhere on the sheet/box/book to say what each mean anyway... So why not just have what it means in the first place? Lol

[jaxom]

I think the heavy bolter may become more of a dedicated sidearm for the Invictor. Take out the special rule and have it be Pistol 1.

 

P.S.: This thread isn't about datasheet symbols; please take that elsewhere.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I don't think it is an ETB kit, although it could be. Nothing catches my eye at first glance as looking less detailed than the existing kit.

If they change the weapon profile of these kits, then they likely would reprint the instructions for it and we would see a new booklet.

[Lemondish]

Symbols are ugly and pointless. Because there will have to be a legend somewhere on the sheet/box/book to say what each mean anyway... So why not just have what it means in the first place? Lol

1. Not pointless. It replaces the need to have multiple translations in every instructions booklet, allowing anybody of any background to understand any data sheet without it needing to be fully translated to your native tongue in the box. This is their purpose, and you don't even have to worry about ever using them if you don't want to.

2. In your haste to have a ToTaLlY ScAThInG HoT TaKe™ you neglected to actually check what you were saying. The free core rules explain the symbols in everyone's preferred language on page 7.

3. Pictures of weapons are immensely more valuable than text for new players. Deciphering 40k's weapon name gumbo is a daunting task.

Edited by Lemondish, 04 August 2020 - 01:45 PM.

[MrSpoon]

 

Symbols are ugly and pointless. Because there will have to be a legend somewhere on the sheet/box/book to say what each mean anyway... So why not just have what it means in the first place? Lol

1. Not pointless. It replaces the need to have multiple translations in every instructions booklet, allowing anybody of any background to understand any data sheet without it needing to be fully translated to your native tongue in the box. This is their purpose, and you don't even have to worry about ever using them if you don't want to.

2. In your haste to have a ToTaLlY ScAThInG HoT TaKe™ you neglected to actually check what you were saying. The free core rules explain the symbols in everyone's preferred language on page 7.

3. Pictures of weapons are immensely more valuable than text for new players. Deciphering 40k's weapon name gumbo is a daunting task.

 

In reference to point 3, I remember the wargear book from 2nd edition. It had a drawing of each weapon and a dull description; I remember studying that book like I was going to sit an exam on it. and I kind of wish we still had something similar. 

[Captain Smashy Pants]

Symbols are ugly and pointless. Because there will have to be a legend somewhere on the sheet/box/book to say what each mean anyway... So why not just have what it means in the first place? Lol

1. Not pointless. It replaces the need to have multiple translations in every instructions booklet, allowing anybody of any background to understand any data sheet without it needing to be fully translated to your native tongue in the box. This is their purpose, and you don't even have to worry about ever using them if you don't want to.

2. In your haste to have a ToTaLlY ScAThInG HoT TaKe™ you neglected to actually check what you were saying. The free core rules explain the symbols in everyone's preferred language on page 7.

3. Pictures of weapons are immensely more valuable than text for new players. Deciphering 40k's weapon name gumbo is a daunting task.

Yeah I agree on all the things you’ve said. I oughtlined my thoughts in the NewCron thread:

I don’t know, on the one hand it’ll be a little more difficult to get the hang of symbols, on the other it’ll be easier finding stats for some of the weapons across various factions that have more bespoke names. I mean I know what all the various firstborn weapons are, but Primaris have so many similar/yet different weapons across the range. That’s not even taking into account the various Xenos and Chaos armies, and other Imperial factions too. For example, I’ve no idea what any of the Mechanicum weapons are called, let alone discerning them from one another. The more you play a faction, or play against it for that matter, the better you’ll become at recognising the various weapons and their naming conventions. I think this system is designed not only for new players to the game, but those players who pick up a new faction. Plus as others have said people who speak different languages can use the same data sheet.

And as you and others have said, they’re additional variant data sheets that will be found in it instructions to make things easier for new players and players across different languages. I can see myself using these sheets in tandem with those found in the various codexes, at least until I get the hang of some of the more bespoke naming conventions. And later down the track those in codexes exclusively.

[Lemondish]

So I do remember a recent rumour that was really easy to dismiss at the time about both heavy bolters and multi-melta.

It stated heavy bolters go to 2D and multi-melta gain a second shot.

I'm starting to think that might actually be the case given the points changes.

[Ishagu]

You guys seen the new datasheets for the turret and buggy?

Onslaught Gatling Cannon is now heavy 8

Multi Meltas are now Heavy 2, which means the Goliath tank will be crazy. 4 Las Talon and 4 multi Melta shots, any vehicle will melt to these.

Twin Accelerator auto cannon is now Heavy 6 (the one found on the turret)

[Arkhanist]

Multimeltas going to 2 shots standard makes a lot of sense given the points bump. They have been switching from heavy bolters to having heavy stubbers or gatlings perform the anti-light infantry role on primaris vehicles. Making them better at it while making heavy bolters into a sort of anti-materiel gun ala the upcoming heavy bolt rifle against heavy infantry would fit with where they seem to be headed.

[Lemondish]

You guys seen the new datasheets for the turret and buggy?

Onslaught Gatling Cannon is now heavy 8

Multi Meltas are now Heavy 2, which means the Goliath tank will be crazy. 4 Las Talon and 4 multi Melta shots, any vehicle will melt to these.

Twin Accelerator auto cannon is now Heavy 6 (the one found on the turret)

I have not. Do you have a link? I'll add it to the first post.

[ST.Lazarus]

You guys seen the new datasheets for the turret and buggy?

Onslaught Gatling Cannon is now heavy 8

Multi Meltas are now Heavy 2, which means the Goliath tank will be crazy. 4 Las Talon and 4 multi Melta shots, any vehicle will melt to these.

Twin Accelerator auto cannon is now Heavy 6 (the one found on the turret)

 

Makes me wonder about the heavy onslaught. two shoot multimeltas also makes me re think my goliath valiant side weapons.