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Saga of the Terminator Trials 9th edition


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#1
TiguriusX

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My thoughts about 9th and list building

 

Spoiler

 

I have finally settled on a 9th edition list after considering many variations

 

I just need to find time to test the concepts on TTS (we are still restricted socially in my area)

 

I got almost all of my "wants" into this list but it cost me venerable and wulfen dreads 

 

 

9th edition Terminator Trial list version 1.0

Spoiler

 

Analysis of my list

Spoiler

Edited by TiguriusX, 05 August 2020 - 03:44 PM.

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#2
G4zM4n

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Hi Tigurius.

Please could you explain to me what you meant by pairing murderfang with Bjorn to get him up the board please?

Thanks
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#3
TiguriusX

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Hi Tigurius.

Please could you explain to me what you meant by pairing murderfang with Bjorn to get him up the board please?

Thanks


The current rules for shooting at an HQ (look out sir!) have a loophole.

If 2 characters who qualify with < 10 wounds are also monsters or vehicles then you can't shoot them UNLESS the characters are the closest unit

This means Bjorn + Murderfang qualify (so do a pair of demon princes etc).

So basically Bjorn and Murderfang very close to one another are immune to long range fire turn 1 and possibly turn 2 if you position your other unit carefully. It is why I have infiltrators in my list.

We spotted this before 9th dropped and pointed it out. GW left it as is. A simple rule change saying non character vehicle/monster will close the loop hole

Make sense?

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#4
G4zM4n

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Hi there

But doesn’t the look out sir rule state that you ignore other character models with a wounds value of 9 or less when determining if it’s the closest model.

Would this not mean that if Bjorn was within 3” of murderfang and was slightly closer to the firing unit, that the firing unit could ignore Bjorn when determining if closest model?

So unless you had another model closer up the board towards the firing unit, Bjorn would not be a screen?

Have I misinterpreted?

Thanks BTW

Gary

Edited by G4zM4n, 10 August 2020 - 05:21 AM.


#5
Rune Priest Jbickb

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The trick to understanding this is to remove from your mind the 8th edition character protection rules.

In 9th characters require 2 things to be protected. The first is there must be another, non character unit closer to the firing unit (this is the rule you mentioned characters are exempt from providing). The second is they must be within 3" of another vehicle, monster, or unit above 3 models, this section does not specify a character cannot be that model. So as long as murderfang and Bjorn hold hands they provide this SECOND requirement to each other, but not the first.

Example:
Bjorn and murderfang are within 3" of each other. A rhino is 6" away from them and between them and a darker eldar ravager. The ravager cannot shoot Bjorn because the rhino is closer and Bjorn is next to a vehicle (murderfang), The ravager cannot shoot Murderfang because the rhino is closer and Muderfang is next to a vehicle (Bjorn), so the ravager shoots the rhino.

If the Rhino were instead Logan Grimnar, all would be targetable as a character cannot fill the closer unit requirements.

If murderfang were to instead be Logan Grimnar (on foot), the target options for the ravager would be Bjorn or the Rhino. This is because Bjorn does not meet the within 3" of a vehicle, monster, or unit above 3 models as Logan is only 1 model, however, Logan does meet this requirement as he is beside a vehicle (Bjorn).

Hope this was helpful, it is confusing because it's only a bit different than 8th but it's an important difference.

Edit: Spelling

Edited by Rune Priest Jbickb, 10 August 2020 - 11:39 AM.

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#6
TiguriusX

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So unless you had another model closer up the board towards the firing unit, Bjorn would not be a screen?

Have I misinterpreted?

Thanks BTW

Gary

You are correct. The bjorn and murderfang trick requires another unit to be closer to activate the protection.

I have infiltrators in my list for this very reason.

Turn 1 the infiltrators will be outside my deployment zone out of LOS and therefore bjorn and murderfang will never be the closest target.

Turn 2 I have my reinforcements coming in.
This will usually mean eradicators in my enemy DZ to pick off vehicles and the 10 man terminator squad mid board. This is the synergy of my army list.

So even if I have walked bjorn and murderfang up the board towards my opponent I have extra units besides the infiltrators to qualify as closer and activate character protection on turn 2.

With transhuman physiology and storm shields and decent rolling I have seen my terminators survive an entire army worth of shooting.

Remember I also get to throw the first punch by alpha striking out of reserves so I should be removing the biggest threats on the board.

If the terminators survive to prevent character targeting then turn 3 murderfang is basically across the no man's land (24" of walking movement) and capable of charging into whatever enemy I point him at.

This is how I would bring the fight to a defensive castle type opponent

If my opponent comes racing towards me on turns 1 and 2 instead well...happy happy space wolf time because he saved me the trouble of crossing the board.

This is what goes through my mind (batman scene where the employee tries to black mail Bruce Wayne)

https://youtu.be/1z6o1GIEsQE

I have bjorn and murderfang...2 of the most badass dreads in the game who enjoy pulping whatever they touch. They are also supported by the armor of russ. If your plan is to attack them head on...good luck


My army fears nobody in melee and I have psyker tools to control the biggest problems (terrify to remove overwatch and tenebrous curse to slow a melee unit i want to ignore).

The things I fear are spammed indirect fire and speed anti tank guns that bypass my defenses (tau coldstar commander with all fusion blasters etc)

Edited by TiguriusX, 10 August 2020 - 01:10 PM.

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#7
G4zM4n

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Thanks guys. That makes much more sense to me now.

I get the fact that the two murder dreads fulfill one of the two requirements for each other and other units will provide the closer unit requirements now.

Much appreciated.
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#8
Karhedron

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I would not be surprised to see the Bjorn/Murderfang loophole closed by FAQ at some point but might as well enjoy it while the going is good. Even if it does get FAQed, they can start off close to the Leviathan (which can pop Duty Eternal) meaning your opponent will have to chew through a lot of T8 2+/4++ wounds with -1D to get at the murderbots behind.

Are you still happy with combi-plasma, even with the likely incoming "Natural 1s" for overheats? If this happens, Fury of the First will no longer prevent overheats. Or do you plan to drop in the Wolf Lord with them to reroll 1s?
Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#9
TiguriusX

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I would not be surprised to see the Bjorn/Murderfang loophole closed by FAQ at some point but might as well enjoy it while the going is good. Even if it does get FAQed, they can start off close to the Leviathan (which can pop Duty Eternal) meaning your opponent will have to chew through a lot of T8 2+/4++ wounds with -1D to get at the murderbots behind.
 

 

I think there are a few loophole items that will be changed as part of the first update (army wide ObSec included)

 

But for now I enjoy my last ride of character blocking. 

 

I have to be honest and say I was REALLY disappointed I never got to use my 8th edition master piece list in a tournament.  The chaplain dreads combined with terminators and psyker buzz saw was testing very well.

 

That concept doesn't work in 9th and they are basically going to Legends the venerable chaplain dread...but for one last ride I can send Bjorn and Murderfang out to annoy people

 

My backup plan is indeed to use the leviathan for turn 1 protection

 

Are you still happy with combi-plasma, even with the likely incoming "Natural 1s" for overheats? If this happens, Fury of the First will no longer prevent overheats. Or do you plan to drop in the Wolf Lord with them to reroll 1s?

 

The decision to overcharge plasma really depends on my targets.

 

I prefer plasma over melta because it gives me so many options.  I love the rapid fire and increased range choices I get.

 

If the eradicators and bjorn do their anti tank jobs then my leviathan and terminators get to focus on clearing elite infantry and hordes.  If I am in rapid fire then I pop keen senses and unleash 20 plasma and 20 bolter shots.  If I want to leave the closest unit untouched so I can get my 7" charge then I can reach out to 24" and hurt something else.

 

I want the terminators to be rerolling 1s regardless of overcharge.  Their job is to absolutely delete a unit with overwhelming firepower.

 

The jump lord is one of the choices I find myself flip flopping most often when I review my list.  

 

I also like the phobos wolf lord with shoot and fade.  I have similar mobility after you factor in 2 moves and advances but I lose the option to drop deep behind enemy lines with reroll 1s if my opponent leaves their deployment zone undefended.  I lose the ability to charge a flyer and punch it to death but I get to add a PF back on the wolf priest and a chainfist on the terminators to make them more combat effective.


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#10
Rune Priest Jbickb

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Unless you are riding right now that character protection just changed...

Err, these are all out:

https://www.warhamme...warhammer-40000

Rulebook, munitorum field manual, PL, Saga of the Beast and the GT pack.


Now gotta be a 10+ wound vehicle for the character protection to work.

Ironically saga of the beast got a new errata, no change for obsec
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#11
TiguriusX

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Unless you are riding right now that character protection just changed...
 

Err, these are all out:

https://www.warhamme...warhammer-40000

Rulebook, munitorum field manual, PL, Saga of the Beast and the GT pack.


Now gotta be a 10+ wound vehicle for the character protection to work.

Ironically saga of the beast got a new errata, no change for obsec

 

 

That was to be expected

 

Plan B...Leviathan...move up a little bit but stay out of LOS

 

Bjorn peek around the corner and fire!


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#12
Karhedron

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On the plus side, 3Wound Terminators! jawdrop.gif
 
Terminators have 3 wounds now.
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Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#13
Rune Priest Jbickb

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That definitely bodes well for the future of all Firstborn marines but definitely the terminator bomb.
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#14
TiguriusX

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One can dream of Logan and his troop terminators in the future
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#15
Rune Priest Jbickb

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Oh to bring back my first army to the table. Still have all the models, and I would love to play logan, arjac, and wolfguaurd again. I loved that list...

Edited by Rune Priest Jbickb, 10 August 2020 - 06:07 PM.

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#16
Triszin

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One can dream of Logan and his troop terminators in the future


One thing I always thought was dumb it wasn't in there.

Chapter specific troop choices/named has/low unlocking troops that aren't normally troops.
banana

#17
FabulousRex

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You don't need Troops, just make Terminators ObSec when near Logan. Or better yet, make that the new Saga of Majesty aura, 6" of ObSec of you kill their Warlord.
I live to drink the blood of the innocents from goblets made of human skulls. I love to hear the tattered lamentations of those I've crushed, to see a shattered bleeding hulk of a once powerful man crawl limply to me on all fours to lick my hobnailed boot and beg for a quick and merciful dispatchment. I thrill with the power granted by me via foul incantations so unholy that their mere utterance blackens the lungs. Tears of joy greet my bloodstained cheeks when I inhale the pungent aroma of flayed flesh smouldering upon the wooden shards of blasted farmhouses, while my ears are filled with the piteous cries of terrified peasants scattering before my arcing blade. In all honestly, my goal within any situation is to become a solid mass of scar tissue and to stand atop a pile of indiscriminate human remains taunting the Gods themselves with my hideous unearthly strength.

#18
TiguriusX

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I have an updated version of my list.

Sad to say goodbye to bjorn and murderfang for now...i needed more infantry

Will be playing in T5S2 which permits changing WL traits...relics...etc before each game.

The preset maps also have lots of breachable terrain that favors infantry

I made room for 2 units of bladeguard and ragnar replaced my generic WL

You will also notice I have the full 12 CP to work with every game based on the match up

Spoiler

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#19
TiguriusX

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Kept thinking about my list last night and made an edit.

 

I didn't have a good candidate for Morkai's teeth in my original list

 

Removed the assault intercessors and a single terminator to go Double Patrol with a Jump Lord instead

 

Costs me 2 CP but in reality I break even

 

I was almost always going to outflank Ragnar so he could go with terminators.  Now the jump WL does it for free

 

I was also going to spend a CP for wisdom of the ancients and reroll 1's with leviathan...now I do that for free

 

The big change is losing an objective babysitter in those assault intercessors...will have to just see how that goes

 

Spoiler

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#20
TiguriusX

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Having trouble piloting this list as I learn 9th edition. 

 

I am currently 0-2 in my first 9th edition RTT (also my first ever 9th edition games)

 

 

One of the biggest nuances I have picked up is the game is like whack a mole centered on objectives

 

Hiding/protecting a unit out of LOS and only revealing the minimum amount to kill and steal an objective is a different style of play I need to adjust to

 

In my 2 matches so far I have unleashed my terminators too early for bad trades (easy to see in hind sight...unable to forecast during actual game)

 

Game 1 (Battle lines...I went 2nd)

45-87 v Wulfen SW army with a scorpius 

Spoiler

 

 

I played scared and basically fell back from the middle objectives instead of standing my ground.  While I was able to mow down his wulfen doing this (and using tenebrous curse to slow his lines from closing the gap) I lost valuable time to score primary objectives.

 

I scored 5-5-5-10 with regards to primary

 

I also blew my secondary by taking linebreaker and being unable to get there at all.  My opponent left front line combat units back to zone me out and deny me points.  Since I hadn't really pushed his front lines he didn't pay the price for it.

  

I did get my deploy scramblers but that was basically it.

 

 

My brain was playing 8th edition instead of 9th edition.  Now that there are no kill or kill more points I should have been sacrificing units and focusing on the objectives above all else.

 

When I brought the terminators in i also had little room to work with and dropped in a bad position

 

Main lesson I took away...I need to be WAY more aggressive and get those primary points

 

 

 

Game 2 (Sweep and Clear...I went 2nd)

78-92 v Custodes

Spoiler

 

My goal was to be more aggressive...turns out I went too far

 

This was also a unique mission called sweep and clear that benefited my opponent.  

 

Usually custodes are outnumbered and can't spread out to play the objective game....however.  There is a special rule for this 1 mission that you keep an objective even though you move away from it

 

I also had never seen the special secondary for this map either.  In the future I will also pick it every time.  Basically it forces you to fight over the center objective.  All you need to do is control at the end of YOUR turn to get points.

 

 

This was the match where I learned the whack a mole style.

 

On turn 1 I pushed my terminators aggressively forward instead of keeping them as a counter strike unit.

 

The overwhelming firepower of terminators + leviathan was not needed for the single unit I could fire at.

 

On his turn he killed off my terminators and I didn't get value from them.

 

I should have played more cagey with them

 

I was able to score much better on the primary objectives but I need to adjust and find a better balance between aggressive and kamikaze 

 

Highlight of the game was a unit of eradicators rolling 6 for damage to erase Trajan after he had eaten a morkai bolt to open the shooting phase (trajan has 7 wounds total)

 

 

Will keep testing and report back when this pod experience is over (1 more match in this pod and I am signed up for another pod trial run too)


Edited by TiguriusX, 23 September 2020 - 03:14 PM.

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#21
QuarterPounder

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Great Intel! Thanks for reporting back for those of us yet unable to get a game in...

*Spelling...

Edited by QuarterPounder, 16 September 2020 - 08:10 PM.

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Homebrew Chapter: The Desert Ravens

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#22
BrotherRanik

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Great information! Thank you for bringing this back to us. I'll have to try to wrap my head around whack a mole tactics. Normally I just don't hold back so that'll be hard for me.

Looking forward to more from you.
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#23
TiguriusX

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Whack a mole is definitely a new thing I need to think about

 

In Game 2 against the Custodes it made a huge difference

 

Every single unit he had was ObSec

 

So he would just put 1 out every turn to take an objective away from me.  He didn't expose anything else.

 

He got secondary points for standing on the middle objective at the end of his turn and I lost primary points for losing the objective before my command phase

 

 

I need to adjust my tactics and flood an objective or consider adjusting my list

 

It doesn't seem like a big deal but it really changes how you approach the game and my default is still 8th edition


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#24
BrotherRanik

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Understandably so, I think a lot of us are still in 8th or even earlier edition mind sets. Objective secure troops are very much needed in lists now. How they are delivered is the question.
Greetings, Brothers! In approximately two minutes and four seconds, assuming we are not blown to hell in that time, we will make contact with our opponent. They undoubtedly think they are going to board us, and take our ship as a prize. We shall teach them a different lesson! -- Berek Thunderfist

#25
TiguriusX

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I modified my terminator list after getting hands on experience with 9th.

 

In order to play the whack a mole game I need more mobility 

 

Here is the terminator remix

 

Spoiler

 

Reasons behind the changes

 

Spoiler

 

 

The modified list performed very well in the debut and I got my 1st competitive 9th edition win (took me 3 games...1-2 tournament record now)

 

Batrep v Harlequins

T5S2 Vital Information mission

 

His list

 

Spoiler

 

BATREP

Spoiler

Edited by TiguriusX, 23 September 2020 - 03:09 PM.

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