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All Firstborn (AND CHAOS) get additional wounds!


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#51
Captain Idaho

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This is great news! Terminators going to 3 wounds is amazing and makes them very competitive now.

And the weapons changes? Heavy Flamers are going to be worth looking at again.

Something folk aren't talking about... power swords going to +1 Strength means what for power axes... +2 and D2?
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#52
Doghouse

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While I would love the modeling possibilties 2 W marines would be strong competition for Intercessors. Stranger things have happened, I still remember marines making the change from human champion T3 to T4 and 4+ to 3+ save.

 

2W marines and 3W terminators would be huge for me personally for conversions.


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#53
wildweasel

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I'd put money on the classic power weapons (axe, maul, sword) all getting an extra point of stat each (S or AP - or even possibly D2 on the maul), so there is more room between them and chainaxes and Astartes chainswords


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#54
Sete

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Think all of marines, including chaos will get bumped.

Now will primaris get bumped to 3 wounds?
If not what's the point of introducing primaris in the first place?
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#55
Daynga-Zone

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I could see them making power swords/axes/mauls all the same stat line. Would be cool for modeling if I could use whatever I wanted for low level power weapons.

If not I doubt you’ll see D2 on those weapons but maybe one more strength and one less AP or something.
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#56
SkimaskMohawk

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The whole argument about the pandemic dragging out the release schedule is fair. But then you remember the last marine book dropped in August, was there only supposed to be a year between the codexes? How long was the current one supposed to be valid for? How many units are going to come up as the new thing to buy, right after people finished making their lists for the last book? The 2019 marine codex is pretty much the definition of planned obsolescence from what I can see.
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#57
Captain Idaho

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I doubt ordinary Marines will go to 2 wounds, I just couldn't imagine it now after all this time. It would also mean Indomitus 2 wound Assault Intercessors are out of date in the box already.
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#58
Reclusiarch Krieg

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Firstborn Marines going to 2W would also kinda make sense if Astartes Chainswords are supposed to be for everyone across the board.

Also... Imagine BT Hammernators at 3W each. Imagine Crusader Squads of 2W Initiates and 1W Neophytes.


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#59
Sete

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Out of the Indomitus box, not the multipart.
All bets are off until the codex hits.

Edited by Sete, 10 August 2020 - 06:39 PM.


#60
Captain Idaho

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Out of the Indomitus box, not the multipart.


Hey, me more than anyone wants to be wrong on this!

2 wound Marines makes my army so useful on the field.

It also makes 3 wound Primaris incredibly powerful.
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#61
Drudge Dreadnought

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I don't see any reason all marines can't be 2W. Its not a nerf to Primaris, its a buff to the others. If the breakdown was that Intercessors have +1a and the better bolt rifle, whereas tacs are a couple points cheaper base and can buy special/heavy weapons, that would work about right.


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#62
Inquisitor Eisenhorn

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Well I have 10 terminators (5 deathwing) sitting unpainted so maybe this'll finally get them clipped and built.


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#63
Dark Shepherd

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Theres some big variables in tacticals v intercessors if they get 2 wounds such as astartes chainswords or not and if points change for either

Price and transportability are big deals

To stay on topic if Termies stay at a similar points changes then they border on autoincludes

#64
Sete

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Out of the Indomitus box, not the multipart.

Hey, me more than anyone wants to be wrong on this!

2 wound Marines makes my army so useful on the field.

It also makes 3 wound Primaris incredibly powerful.
3 wounds primaris it's my question.
In the french forums, our reliable rumour dude seems to he sure that all marines, loyal and spiky are getting 2 wounds.

As for me, I'm gonna sit tight and see.
Next year we will have primaris sized MK7 marines to buy lmao.

Edited by Sete, 10 August 2020 - 06:41 PM.

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#65
WrathOfTheLion

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They had the intercessor with the MK VII helmet on the codex, might be less farfetched than you think.


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#66
RandyB

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Imagine Crusader Squads of 2W Initiates and 1W Neophytes.


As it should be.
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Put the toys on the table and throw the dice. Everything else is just noise.

 

...Unless you're just in this for the modeling. In which case, show your work. Yours likely looks better than mine, anyway.


#67
RedFox

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Out of the Indomitus box, not the multipart.

Hey, me more than anyone wants to be wrong on this!

2 wound Marines makes my army so useful on the field.

It also makes 3 wound Primaris incredibly powerful.
3 wounds primaris it's my question.
In the french forums, our reliable rumour dude seems to he sure that all marines, loyal and spiky are getting 2 wounds.

As for me, I'm gonna sit tight and see.
Next year we will have primaris sized MK7 marines to buy lmao.

can you link me please? is it the same reliable source thay leaked lots of info about the SM supplements?

#68
Sete

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Out of the Indomitus box, not the multipart.

Hey, me more than anyone wants to be wrong on this!

2 wound Marines makes my army so useful on the field.

It also makes 3 wound Primaris incredibly powerful.
3 wounds primaris it's my question.
In the french forums, our reliable rumour dude seems to he sure that all marines, loyal and spiky are getting 2 wounds.

As for me, I'm gonna sit tight and see.
Next year we will have primaris sized MK7 marines to buy lmao.
can you link me please? is it the same reliable source thay leaked lots of info about the SM supplements?
I'll DM you, and yes.
Check post history if you can.

Edited by Sete, 10 August 2020 - 06:52 PM.

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#69
wildweasel

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The whole argument about the pandemic dragging out the release schedule is fair. But then you remember the last marine book dropped in August, was there only supposed to be a year between the codexes? How long was the current one supposed to be valid for? How many units are going to come up as the new thing to buy, right after people finished making their lists for the last book? The 2019 marine codex is pretty much the definition of planned obsolescence from what I can see.

 

*adamantine foil hat time*

So I've maintained for a while that Shadowspear was originally supposed to be the 9th Edition starter for the summer of 2019. At the time we had some pretty strong indications towards GW doing new edition updates on a 2 year cycle. What I believe happened is that 9E was originally going to just be more of a rulebook refresh - incorporate the errata and FAQs to date, tweak a little bit, but largely just be a clean up after the massive change that 8E was.

 

However, based on the feedback they were getting about 8E and looking at what to do, they realized the game would need a more significant overhaul, and pushed the new edition out a year to create deeper and more comprehensive changes to it. That left them with the Shadowspear sprues already commited in terms of mold making and having them to drive the CSM refresh and Vanguard Marine releases, so they put that together as a battle box cause they couldn't just leave that big a gap in their release schedule. WHich is why we got this outlier of a battlebox of all new sculpts and as monopose models.

Now, on top of that, we also have to consider they had, of course, planned on doing a new Marine Codex alongside the new edition. However, scrapping a 2019 Codex and saying "Here's a PDF or supplement with all the new Vanguard stuff" would also have to include the Combat Doctrines and such, as the six Codex Supplements were dependent on that and they couldn't just easily pull out and schedule that many releases. So they either release a massive PDF adding all this stuff to the 2017 Marine Codex, invalidating a bunch of entries, and put up with everyone going "too many updates, why not make new book??" for a year, or do the new book and put up with "OMG 3rd book in 3 years".

Whether that's the right call or not I leave up for the reader. 


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#70
Squike

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I still don’t understand why they didn’t make all these changes at the start of 9th with a big FAQ for this stuff, rather than bring it out piece meal. They must know what there final play tested version of 9th is, why not bring us straight up to that level instead of slowly drip feeding the changes............


This was not their planned release schedule, I can almost guarantee that. Sometimes you can't slow everything down so it all lines up as they originally intended, and having a pandemic ruin the schedule was not part of the planning process ;)

I get that COVID has probably ruined their schedule but that doesn’t mean you can’t do an FAQ as soon as you make the decision to bring forward the 9th release to bring all the rules up to the standard that you want them, why do we have to wait for the first codex’s that potentially haven’t been delayed to get the complete rules for the new edition and updated rules for units that fit this edition.

Going by the logic that it will only change with the codex, if SM tac squads go to 2W the other codex like CSM would have to wait until their codex for the same change, which hopefully they don’t do as that would be super lopsided. So why not make them all 2W with the 9th drop? Along with all the other changes like storm shields weapon profiles and POTMS....

#71
wildweasel

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I doubt ordinary Marines will go to 2 wounds, I just couldn't imagine it now after all this time. It would also mean Indomitus 2 wound Assault Intercessors are out of date in the box already.

 

Not as Troops with Astartes chainswords and heavy bolt pistols. And especially not if the Codex gives the sergeant melee weapon options.


 

 

I still don’t understand why they didn’t make all these changes at the start of 9th with a big FAQ for this stuff, rather than bring it out piece meal. They must know what there final play tested version of 9th is, why not bring us straight up to that level instead of slowly drip feeding the changes............


This was not their planned release schedule, I can almost guarantee that. Sometimes you can't slow everything down so it all lines up as they originally intended, and having a pandemic ruin the schedule was not part of the planning process msn-wink.gif

I get that COVID has probably ruined their schedule but that doesn’t mean you can’t do an FAQ as soon as you make the decision to bring forward the 9th release to bring all the rules up to the standard that you want them, why do we have to wait for the first codex’s that potentially haven’t been delayed to get the complete rules for the new edition and updated rules for units that fit this edition.

Going by the logic that it will only change with the codex, if SM tac squads go to 2W the other codex like CSM would have to wait until their codex for the same change, which hopefully they don’t do as that would be super lopsided. So why not make them all 2W with the 9th drop? Along with all the other changes like storm shields weapon profiles and POTMS....

 

 

So why not just released all the revised Codices all at once? I mean if you are releasing updated statline across the board, then why not also revise abilites like PotMS across the board, then why not update all the sub-Faction traits at once, then why not...


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#72
Doghouse

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If the two wound thing is true I bet a lot of marines are kicking themselves for risking death crossing the Rubicon Primaris! :D


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#73
Shinespider

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I hope it's finally happening. Giving the remaining marines an across-the-board wound bump would benefit the game overall, imo.

 

Though doing it piecemeal is idiotic. 9th edition should have launched with a whole series of articles "Hey, we're fundamentally revisiting what a Space Marine is on the tabletop, and here's how we're doing, and here are the new datasheets."


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#74
Dr. Clock

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Having 3x5 Salamanders Termies + the whole of Space Hulk painted as Lamenters... I'm so ready for this.

 

2W marines across the board would work pretty well too, IMO, but at that point one almost expects that they'd return to a '6-man special+heavy' model. With no AP at all, bolters are v weak on a 2W mini. But with a grenade, special, heavy and combi-, you've just got the two bolters there as ablatives anyway in a min/max, and the bolters add up eventually if you choose the right support buffs etc. to pick up more bolter dudes... But in general I feel like you can make more interesting armies if you can take specials and heavies together from 6-10 on tacticals (and CSM).

 

Essentially at 2W each, 6 guys with 2 specials and a heavy on 12W of marines makes alot more sense than our current paradigm.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.


These are the droids we are looking for.

#75
Doghouse

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So one serious question, does this mean transports will still be divided between the two elements of the Astartes? I don't think it would but this could be a big deal for flying transports for armies like Death Watch if it were.


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