Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

All Firstborn (AND CHAOS) get additional wounds!


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
798 replies to this topic

#751
mel_danes

mel_danes

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 404 posts

My point is molds for plastic things don't break.

They do wear out, which is what people are talking about.
They wear out based on use.
The marine molds get used far more often than the vyper molds. Its uses not years.

Edited by mel_danes, 14 August 2020 - 07:57 PM.

  • Noserenda likes this

#752
Interrogator Stobz

Interrogator Stobz

    ++ VILICUS PISCARIAM ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 7,168 posts
  • Location:Aotearoa
  • Faction: Dark Angels since RT.

+++Let's keep on track Brothers, it's easy to write something unclear and have everyone drift away. Be Vigilant, Be Wary, Behave.+++


Edited by Interrogator Stobz, 14 August 2020 - 11:48 PM.
COLOUR CHOICE :D

  • mel_danes, Juggernut and Silas7 like this

Be Pure, Be Vigilant, Behave.

 

gallery_48988_15465_19298.pngETL_2013_04_Primus_Inter_Pares.jpgImg_CH00_08Awards_02_LPC_2013B.gifImg_CH00_08Awards_05f_PtR_2012.gifETL_Medal_06.gifsml_gallery_48988_16045_3749.png

Stobz'z DAngles


#753
FinalCookie

FinalCookie

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 70 posts
  • Location:Oregon, USA

Cult marines are clearly the biggest winners with this change. I think most people got used to shooting at loyalists with two wounds, and outside of very specific builds, it's a pretty predictable amount of durability. Whereas Plague Marines and Rubric Marines have extra bonuses on top of being marines, and those durability buffs are going to suddenly become a lot more valuable. Berzerkers gain the most from the durability increase, simply because they didn't already have something built in that made them harder to kill. But now a MEQ with two wounds who can naturally fight twice? That's a great unit, I don't care who you are.


  • mel_danes, Marshal Loss and Marshal Valkenhayn like this

Raptors - 5th Company

Storm Lancers - 2nd Company

Kozhivan Imperial Guard - 5th Infantry Division

gallery_30308_9518_8597.jpg


#754
mel_danes

mel_danes

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 404 posts
I think you're on to the core here FinalCookie.
Cult troops, specifically those with codex support are going to be intimidating. DG post PA , now wound bump, oh yeah good stuff.
  • FinalCookie likes this

#755
Ishagu

Ishagu

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 17,610 posts
  • Location:Britannia, Holy Terra
  • Faction: Ultramarines
Plague Marines and Rubrics will walk away from this as the best Astartes Troop units, no doubt.
  • mel_danes, Sugarlessllama and FinalCookie like this

-~Ishagu~-


#756
Marshal Loss

Marshal Loss

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 5,012 posts
  • Location:New York
  • Faction: Emperor's Children

Now we just need new Berzerker & Noise Marine models...:P


  • mel_danes, Noserenda, FinalCookie and 2 others like this

bRxSYDV.png

Emperor's Children 22ᶮᵈ Millennial

Sons of Horus 29th Company


#757
Minsc

Minsc

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 706 posts
  • Location:Sweden.

Plague Marines and Rubrics will walk away from this as the best Astartes Troop units, no doubt.

Completely fine, as they'll most likely be the most expensive ones as well. :P


  • mel_danes and Archaeinox like this

#758
FinalCookie

FinalCookie

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 70 posts
  • Location:Oregon, USA

Now we just need new Berzerker & Noise Marine models...tongue.png

 

From your lips to GW's ears.

 

Hilariously, I think Noise Marines care about this bump the least. Sure, they're more durable and get to shoot longer because of it, but the bonus they bring naturally is predicated on them dying. So they're just devastators with a built in ancient, which a lot of loyalists brought anyways. MotA probably needs to be re-imagined at this point.

 

For loyalists, I think veterans like this change the most, as it certainly is going to make me take a long look at Sternguard for edge uses of that stratagem they get. But then the issue is they have some stiff competition in the Elite slot, which is what made Intercessors so valuable in the first place. I just keep circling back to the fact that this fundamentally changes very little for loyalists. 

 

Which, for the record, is fantastic. Chaos needs a boost, and they need to compete on the tabletop the way that the main antagonists of the setting should. Heretics should be dangerous!


Raptors - 5th Company

Storm Lancers - 2nd Company

Kozhivan Imperial Guard - 5th Infantry Division

gallery_30308_9518_8597.jpg


#759
chapter master 454

chapter master 454

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,279 posts
  • Location:Fife
  • Faction: Angels of Justice

Rubrics are going to be interesting, it ups their survival rate massively against things that already struggled against them but won't matter vs. the things that normally merc them (Tau with Heavy Burst Cannons) however plague marines just got a lot more chonky and hard to shift, their Disgustingly Resilient now being more potent as one pass out of 2 will waste the next shot that got through.

 

Grey Knights are certainly going to be far more intimidating providing their points don't get hiked back to the sky while deathwatch now drop primaris units like a lead brick for their traditional units that can take frag-cannon things, storm shields and storm bolters while also getting transport access. Not to say Primaris don't have a place in Deathwatch but...wargear choice is kind of a cornerstone of Deathwatch and Primaris don't exactly have a strong record of wargear choice.

 

It will be interesting however with the new roll-out of weapon improvements to see what goes where and how. Speaking as a Tau player as well, curious to see the changes to that arsenal of xenos wargear, will fusion blasters go to the new melta as well? MAYBE make our plasma raw damage 2? Make Burst Cannons worth it? Maybe give crisis suits Ballistic skill 3+ and Weapon Skill 4+? This just opens a whole new flood gate of ideas.

Though I suspect we will head into a new era of lethal power. Good news is the game actually rewards durability now with objectives being so important.


  • Commander Dawnstar likes this

I Chapter Master 454, Chapter Master of the Angels of Justice, Warboss of WAAAGH Gubskul, Commander of a Catachan Regiment, Phaeron of a Tomb World, Shas'O to a Cadre and Princeps of a lance of House Taranis hereby pledge that I will not take up any further models til all other prior have been fully built and painted to tabletop standards. There is no time limit for this task, there is no deadline. My oath is to solemnly complete the armies I have now, to see it that they can have their glory. Paint will be stripped from the old in need, thick may it be like ceramite I will see it removed so that plastic and metal alike may see light of new paint. Models yet to be, boxed and in darkness will be assembled with due care and attention. For this task I am permitted to still buy the supplies needed to do my task but not one model more.

http://www.bolterand...one-model-more/ the thread to my oath. My own reminder.

http://www.bolterand...rk-in-progress/ my own chapter
"The objective of playing a game is to win. The point of playing a game is to have fun. Never confuse the two"

 

 

 


#760
jaxom

jaxom

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,891 posts

Not to say Primaris don't have a place in Deathwatch but...wargear choice is kind of a cornerstone of Deathwatch and Primaris don't exactly have a strong record of wargear choice.

 

Upgrade sprue to go with the release of Deathwatch supplement?


gallery_48988_15094_2398.png sml_gallery_48988_11572_4589.png

 

Past Event Banners

Spoiler

#761
Lemondish

Lemondish

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,544 posts

 

Not to say Primaris don't have a place in Deathwatch but...wargear choice is kind of a cornerstone of Deathwatch and Primaris don't exactly have a strong record of wargear choice.

 

Upgrade sprue to go with the release of Deathwatch supplement?

 

 

Might be that the new Veteran Intercessor datasheet is more than just a port of the stratagem - it could actually be a true Veteran kit with bits to make both Bladeguard and Vet Intercessors, leading to the potential for wargear customization. Since DW Kill Teams are all Vets, this could be where Fortis hold their own.

 

Plus there's the unknowns of how any new Fortis Kill Teams will be built, or how the new Heavy Intercessor will interact with them. 

 

Lots we don't yet know that will impact DW, but for right now that army is looking like Vets have a chance to overtake Primaris as the base unit given just how powerful their wargear options are. You can build resilient, long lasting Veteran units that can flex into any other role pretty easily. I mean, the Infernus Heavy Bolter is looking MIGHTY tasty these days. With 2 Damage on the HB profile and an extra 4" on the HF profile, it could very well be worth considering. 


Edited by Lemondish, 14 August 2020 - 09:42 PM.


#762
Black Blow Fly

Black Blow Fly

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 15,167 posts
  • Location:Unto realms immortal...
  • Faction: TODESKOMPANIE
I’m wondering if Primaris are even worth it for Deathwatch.
=][= fortis Fortuna adiuvat . =][=
my 40k FB Page:
https://m.facebook.com/Terminus6Est
Terminus Est
Blood and Honor!

#763
Lemondish

Lemondish

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,544 posts

I’m wondering if Primaris are even worth it for Deathwatch.

 

Not at all until we learn more. Could be that the supplement makes a ton of changes we don't know about, and it isn't like we'll be seeing the wound boost until the Codex comes about, so we really don't have any idea. We have no idea if they'll get the Impulsor, the Infiltrators/Incursors, the Invictor, or the other new Primaris units like the Gladiator, or the Storm Speeder. 

 

Definitely not enough information, but with what little we do know they are definitely worth dropping for the old school Vets again.



#764
wildweasel

wildweasel

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,701 posts

 

My point is molds for plastic things don't break.

They do wear out, which is what people are talking about.
They wear out based on use.
The marine molds get used far more often than the vyper molds. Its uses not years.

 

 

They still make Marine bikes.



#765
Kobrakei

Kobrakei

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 908 posts
  • Location:Coventry, UK
  • Faction: Crimson Shrikes/Dark Angels
A lot of speculation of how good things are going to be is based on what they are now. Someone made a comment on the Dev team finally cutting loose and being innovative, rather than broadly following what's come before, which fills me full of hope...I'm looking at my old firstborn armies now and thinking of what I can do with them, which considering I was going to eBay them off is a great step. It's going to be a painful transition for a while, but I have faith it'll be best for the game.
  • Interrogator Stobz and Lucerne like this

'For nine days and nine nights I hung from the spines of that great tree, my blood awash with toxins, my mind awash with visions. Where brothers died, I was reborn. This is what it is to be a warrior of the Thorn Wreath'  - Jor Yestine, I Company, Crimson Shrikes Adeptus Astartes

 

A Dark Song - A collection of armies

Redmeption At All Costs - Dark Angels Fifth Company

Instagram

 

 

gallery_70393_10089_14170.png


#766
Inquisitor Eisenhorn

Inquisitor Eisenhorn

    ++ CANTOR ARDENS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 1,083 posts
  • Location:=][=Classified=][=
  • Faction: Forces of the Imperium

They have effectively flattened the stat lines for Deathwatch Veterans and Intercessors, with Intercessors having one less LD, so they are getting close to removing a meaningful distinction between old/new marines with this move, and that's a great thing IMO.


  • Roland Durendal, Lucerne and wildweasel like this

#767
Toxichobbit

Toxichobbit

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,084 posts

 

 

My point is molds for plastic things don't break.

They do wear out, which is what people are talking about.
They wear out based on use.
The marine molds get used far more often than the vyper molds. Its uses not years.

 

 

They still make Marine bikes.

 

Marine bikes have been re-done. The current rider is different to the rider it was released and as he's on the same sprue as the bike, I assume that means they made new moulds?



#768
wildweasel

wildweasel

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,701 posts

 

Marine bikes have been re-done. The current rider is different to the rider it was released and as he's on the same sprue as the bike, I assume that means they made new moulds?

 

 

 

The "new" bike is still old as sin.

Yes, molds for plastic things do *eventually* wear out - but the volume of sales that would take would entail the things still selling more than well enough to justify redoing them if and when that happens. Practically speaking, "never break" is much more reflective of the reality than "just run them till they break and retire the range."



#769
Sugarlessllama

Sugarlessllama

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 483 posts
  • Location:Bellingham, Washington
  • Faction: Imperial Consuls

Plague Marines and Rubrics will walk away from this as the best Astartes Troop units, no doubt.

 

I'm really ok with this. There has been a real lack of CSM players in my area, and hopefully this will bring them out to play. Because as it is right now, I have been facing off against a lot of "Iron Hands Successors" that are rather spiky. 


Edited by Sugarlessllama, 15 August 2020 - 02:08 AM.

  • Lucerne likes this

Work hard. Be kind.


#770
jaxom

jaxom

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,891 posts

I finally had an opportunity to look through the model picture sections of the new rule book. There are no pictures that I remember seeing which included miniatures older than the revamped Dark Eldar range and new Eldar jet bikes. The only non-Primaris Marines I saw were Grey Knights, Terminators (in general), Dark Angel flyers, Sanguine Guard. The Heretic Astartes only showed newer kits: Thousand Suns and later.

 

I think this 2W marine/3W Terminator puts Firstborn in line with Primaris so that all Space Marine armies are working from the same basic starting point. The choice becomes more about aesthetics. Prefer Firstborn? Buy Firstborn. Prefer Primaris? Buy Primaris. However, considering the rule book, don't expect any new Firstborn kits. It's clear from the media shots that they are now persona non grata.


gallery_48988_15094_2398.png sml_gallery_48988_11572_4589.png

 

Past Event Banners

Spoiler

#771
WrathOfTheLion

WrathOfTheLion

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,566 posts
  • Location:South Carolina, USA
  • Faction: Dark Angels, WB & SW
They obviously have done very well selling Primaris regardless of their stats. They don't need to continue the power disparity to that degree, the kits will still have a strong appeal to many people.

sml_gallery_48988_16308_4210.png


#772
BrainFireBob

BrainFireBob

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 860 posts

I understand Space Marine players being happy, and certainly Chaos Space Marine players being happy. But I don't understand this shock at xenos players being unhappy, as if the post-Space Marine Codex of 2019 time period never happened. Space Marines were the most powerful army in the game and are getting buffs that open up a large section of their codex that was previously perhaps not as viable anymore. That is awesome for Space Marine and CSM players. It makes perfect sense why others would not be jazzed.


Why are Firstborn with 2W- at a corresponding higher cost!- worse than the last 3 years of Primaris?
  • Lucerne and Volt like this

#773
Karack Blackstone

Karack Blackstone

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,235 posts
  • Location:The Fang, Fenris
  • Faction: Vlka Fenryka

Primaris? Actually played like Space Marines.

 

Firstborn? ... Were they even worth table space from most of 6th, 7th, and 8th? 9th means to address this fact.

 

GW let the NorMarines be gimped; now that it's fixed, faceroll isn't so faceroll now.

 

It's like being mad that you can't beat up some punk kid and take his lunch money, because his brother is the older and stronger and can actually fight back.

 

At all.


  • OttoVonAwesome likes this

#774
Borgias

Borgias

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 35 posts
  • Location:Nantes

In the warcom article, they are called “first born” too.



#775
Marshal Valkenhayn

Marshal Valkenhayn

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 452 posts
  • Location:Oklahoma
  • Faction: Daemons Of Khorne

I'm holding out hope that Firstborn is the new copyrightable word they use to describe old marines, and that it sticks and spawns good things.


  • m0nolith, Silas7, lythari and 1 other like this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users