798 replies to this topic

[lythari]

I'm holding out hope that Firstborn is the new copyrightable word they use to describe old marines, and that it sticks and spawns good things.

I hope they take the Space Marine Heroes Tactical Marine models and make a new tactical squad kit of them. Those are essentially truescale Firstborn.

[War Angel]

Primaris? Actually played like Space Marines.
 
Firstborn? ... Were they even worth table space from most of 6th, 7th, and 8th? 9th means to address this fact.
 
GW let the NorMarines be gimped; now that it's fixed, faceroll isn't so faceroll now.
 
It's like being mad that you can't beat up some punk kid and take his lunch money, because his brother is the older and stronger and can actually fight back.
 
At all.

Off topic, but I’m not seeing how that metaphor works.

[Interrogator Stobz]

GW could truescale all Astartes with 2W by making smaller human minis.
Astartes are the standard after all, the game is not human centric, it's Astartes centric.

[War Angel]

GW could truescale all Astartes with 2W by making smaller human minis.
Astartes are the standard after all, the game is not human centric, it's Astartes centric.

As a guard player I would not like that for the guard. and as a space Marine player I would not like that for the space Marines.


Feel like taking about models is off topic though.

[jaxom]

GW could truescale all Astartes with 2W by making smaller human minis.
Astartes are the standard after all, the game is not human centric, it's Astartes centric.

According to Jes Goodwin the current human scale was set by skitarii.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

GW could truescale all Astartes with 2W by making smaller human minis.
Astartes are the standard after all, the game is not human centric, it's Astartes centric.

 

I think they did do this, for Astartes AND true-scaling humans. The new plastic humans are very well-proportioned and slightly taller than old IG plastics. Additionally, the new plastic CSM which are excellent are even taller and more well-proportioned than the Space Marine Heroes S1. You have Primaris plastics for Primaris, and CSM plastics for W2 Firstborn. GW definitely is not going to keep doing the old lumpy IG and stumpy, bow-legged, stomach-less Firstborn. It remains to be seen if they will be willing to continue further development of the loyalist Firstborn plastic line to coincide with their rules development.

[Dracos]

Its cool for club play but I wouldnt try bringing those Primaris Tactical/Assault conversions to a tournament if your list has Firstborn models in it also. 

[Master Sheol]

I'm holding out hope that Firstborn is the new copyrightable word they use to describe old marines, and that it sticks and spawns good things.

I hope they take the Space Marine Heroes Tactical Marine models and make a new tactical squad kit of them. Those are essentially truescale Firstborn.

Space Marines Heroes are still smaller than new CSM that are not just 1 mm taller but beefier too
Firstborn also the taller ones like Heroes series and Deatwatch are skinny compared to primaris and new CSM

Edited by Master Sheol, 15 August 2020 - 05:41 AM.

[Spinsanity]

Its cool for club play but I wouldnt try bringing those Primaris Tactical/Assault conversions to a tournament if your list has Firstborn models in it also.

As long as they're played as all-firstborn or all-Primaris, I’m pretty sure mixed models would be just fine...

[Master Sheol]

GW could truescale all Astartes with 2W by making smaller human minis.
Astartes are the standard after all, the game is not human centric, it's Astartes centric.

I think they did do this, for Astartes AND true-scaling humans. The new plastic humans are very well-proportioned and slightly taller than old IG plastics. Additionally, the new plastic CSM which are excellent are even taller and more well-proportioned than the Space Marine Heroes S1. You have Primaris plastics for Primaris, and CSM plastics for W2 Firstborn. GW definitely is not going to keep doing the old lumpy IG and stumpy, bow-legged, stomach-less Firstborn. It remains to be seen if they will be willing to continue further development of the loyalist Firstborn plastic line to coincide with their rules development.

My idea is that HW will never redo firstborn models and this W2 upgrade is the swansong of the loyalist firstborn IMHO

[Captain Smashy Pants]

I think firstborn will be around until either they stop selling or the moulds break. If there is a market for them and the moulds are still functional, it would be wasteful to scrap the molds. When they stop selling or the molds break, they'll either legendise the range or maybe produce some new models in the same vein as the the new CSM. The newest of the firstborn are very new. BA tac squad came out late 2014, and the dev and RAS kits came out mid 2015. The DW vets are newer still, 2016, and IIRC are less than a year older than the Primarines. The DW vets and the TS range are even scaled the same size as the CSM, although they go together the same way the Goodwyn range do with the ball joint at the waste.

[Bryan Blaire]

Meh, using the term "first born" for standard Astartes sounds like a sibling that can't find anything they do better than another and have to pathetically seize on birth order to find meaning and worth for their lives. "We get it Tomas, you made it big in the market, have a nice car, house, wife and kid, and all that, but I'm first born, so nyah!"

Parents in the background "Yeah, but we do still like Tomas more..."

-------------

Seriously though, they are all just Marines, and it's great that they have all been brought up to the same base Wound count - really hoping that we can see some more Chaos on the tables.

And people were saying that 9th Edition wasn't going to shake things up much... (oh wait, that was me, calling it 8.5). Glad to be wrong, really looking forward to seeing new army options/types come to the fore.

[Scribe]

GW could truescale all Astartes with 2W by making smaller human minis.
Astartes are the standard after all, the game is not human centric, it's Astartes centric.

According to Jes Goodwin the current human scale was set by skitarii.

I'm fine with that. I believe that's the same as GSC box.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

My idea is that HW will never redo firstborn models and this W2 upgrade is the swansong of the loyalist firstborn IMHO

 

I also suspect this may be the case.

 

Meh, using the term "first born" for standard Astartes sounds like a sibling that can't find anything they do better than another and have to pathetically seize on birth order to find meaning and worth for their lives. "We get it Tomas, you made it big in the market, have a nice car, house, wife and kid, and all that, but I'm first born, so nyah!"

Parents in the background "Yeah, but we do still like Tomas more..."

-------------

Seriously though, they are all just Marines, and it's great that they have all been brought up to the same base Wound count - really hoping that we can see some more Chaos on the tables.

And people were saying that 9th Edition wasn't going to shake things up much... (oh wait, that was me, calling it 8.5). Glad to be wrong, really looking forward to seeing new army options/types come to the fore.

 

It's just a name. It's what GW officially calls them so the name is obviously going to stick. Before the term became popular I just called them manlets or original/regular Space Marines, which was far more cumbersome to type. If the discussion is in relation to Primaris, you do have to differentiate between the two so you can't just call them Space Marines and calling them non-Primaris is both awkward and takes more effort.

 

To me, Firstborn never carried any sense of prestige because we as the playerbase had literally years to drench in the stigma of being squatted or rendered obsolete. "Firstborn" basically meant "squatted" or "not Primaris" or "old and busted" for the longest time, I know I can't be the only one who has some small negative, subconscious connotations with the word. In that sense, maybe it's apt that in the lore some Firstborn took to calling themselves that as a response to what they saw as Primaris usurpation and impending obsolescence.

[Bryan Blaire]

I get that it's "just a name" - doesn't stop it from sounding petulant. There had to have been something better GW could have used.

[Petitioner's City]

Wasn't it ADB's name used first in Spears of the Emperor?

Edited by Petitioner's City, 15 August 2020 - 06:22 AM.

[Lucerne]

I get that it's "just a name" - doesn't stop it from sounding petulant. There had to have been something better GW could have used.

How about Trueborn.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Meh, using the term "first born" for standard Astartes sounds like a sibling that can't find anything they do better than another and have to pathetically seize on birth order to find meaning and worth for their lives. "We get it Tomas, you made it big in the market, have a nice car, house, wife and kid, and all that, but I'm first born, so nyah!"

Parents in the background "Yeah, but we do still like Tomas more..."

-------------

Seriously though, they are all just Marines, and it's great that they have all been brought up to the same base Wound count - really hoping that we can see some more Chaos on the tables.

And people were saying that 9th Edition wasn't going to shake things up much... (oh wait, that was me, calling it 8.5). Glad to be wrong, really looking forward to seeing new army options/types come to the fore.

 

 

Or, you know, it could be a last bit of respect for the guys who paved the road for everyone who came after. The OG marines fought alongside the Emperor when the trators turned against them, and have stood against the tides of chaos and xenos threat for ten thousand years. They might be about to die out, but the new guys can pay homage to the fact that without them, Primaris wouldn't have even had  a mold to break. Hell, these new guys don't even know Chaos Marines like the OG. It's almost sad that they'll have to continue a fight against twisted mirror images of a race of their former generation that doesn't even exist anymore.

 

Or, you know, we could do them like the Thunder Warriors and take them out back behind the shed, but I prefer the last bit of respect.

 

It's going to feel Really, Really good putting 2 wound Berserker's on the field in this edition. Daddy's home, and he has a lot to say to the newbies who have been having it way too damn easy thus far.

[Reinhard]

Funny you mention Thunder warriors, which is the main reason why I don't use the firstborn term for classic marines...

[Ishagu]

Firstborn isn't a fitting term for the classic Astartes.
It also implies superiority, and that is definitely not the case.

The Primaris are closer to the Primarchs, and thus the Emperor genetically, but many of them also hail from the era of the Great Crusade and Scouring.

MKI Astartes is a more fitting title, imo.

Edited by Ishagu, 15 August 2020 - 06:56 AM.

[Dosjetka]

Not sure the discussion is about what is or isn't an appropriate name.

Personally, glad to see what was an semi-abandoned collection of mine given a second lease of life of sorts.

[Ascanius]

Firstborn isn't a fitting term for the classic Astartes.

 

Anyone who wants to fight AD-B about this question, and isn't Dan Abnett, is on the losing side.

[Ishagu]

Firstborn isn't a fitting term for the classic Astartes.

Anyone who wants to fight AD-B about this question, and isn't Dan Abnett, is on the losing side.

I've read the book. It's a term coined by a single, somewhat divergent chapter located in the Dark Imperium.

It's not widely used, as per ADB's own writing.

In another book the classic Astartes were referred to as "Thin Bloods" but obviously this term carries an inferior connotation.

Neither is the official term.

Edited by Ishagu, 15 August 2020 - 07:48 AM.

[WarriorFish]

It seems we are out of both news and on topic posts, so as cautioned previously this topic is being closed. When we hear something new an appropriate topic can be created accordingly as normal