Time for a new Guardsmens kit?

[War Angel]

 

 

And to the rest of you, are we really coming into a thread where the OP says he would like a new kit, which possibly includes more modern things, and then telling him he’s not allowed to want that? That’s what he wants, he’s allowed to have a different taste than you. Stop gatekeeping.

 

 

Edit: “but you can get all of those bits from third party companies” ok cool, so GW should never make anything for the guard ever again, because third party companies make everything. Another point against third party is that it’s not made of the same material, and for some people they actually maters.

I don't think anyone said specifically not to wish for GW to do things.

Obviously, resin and other parts are not adequate for everyone, the reason why I mentioned potential solutions for now with GW stuff.

As I mentioned before in this thread and elsewhere, GW will get to update guard, but doesn't seem to be their priority, so it might take a while.

Conversions will likely have to do for now for most things.

Am I misreading some of these posts? If I am, ignore it.

 

Edit: of course I wasn’t looking at you as thinking that way, just to be clear.

Edited August 12, 2020 by War Angel

[Captain Incompetence]

And to the rest of you, are we really coming into a thread where the OP says he would like a new kit, which possibly includes more modern things, and then telling him he’s not allowed to want that? That’s what he wants, he’s allowed to have a different taste than you. Stop gatekeeping.

 

Edit: “but you can get all of those bits from third party companies” ok cool, so GW should never make anything for the guard ever again, because third party companies make everything. Another point against third party is that it’s not made of the same material, and for some people they actually maters.

I'm not sure if mods cleaned up a bunch of posts, but I see literally zero posts gatekeeping anyone. If anything it's a bunch of people applying real-word logic to 40K miniatures and being very defensive about their opinions. Also, what's wrong with suggesting to people you can make backpacks yourself or buy third party ones? There's literally nothing wrong with that suggestion, yet you're acting like it's somehow directly telling GW's modeldesigners that they should never make backpacks for Imperial Guard models. That's quite a leap of logic you're making.

[War Angel]

 

 

And to the rest of you, are we really coming into a thread where the OP says he would like a new kit, which possibly includes more modern things, and then telling him he’s not allowed to want that? That’s what he wants, he’s allowed to have a different taste than you. Stop gatekeeping.

 

Edit: “but you can get all of those bits from third party companies” ok cool, so GW should never make anything for the guard ever again, because third party companies make everything. Another point against third party is that it’s not made of the same material, and for some people they actually maters.

I'm not sure if mods cleaned up a bunch of posts, but I see literally zero posts gatekeeping anyone. If anything it's a bunch of people applying real-word logic to 40K miniatures and being very defensive about their opinions. Also, what's wrong with suggesting to people you can make backpacks yourself or buy third party ones? There's literally nothing wrong with that suggestion, yet you're acting like it's somehow directly telling GW's modeldesigners that they should never make backpacks for Imperial Guard models. That's quite a leap of logic you're making.

No that’s not what I’m saying. I’m referring to the idea that since there are 3rd party bits, and GS, then GW should not make what your asking for. In general.

 

Edit: was saying it before it gets used as an excuse.

Edited August 12, 2020 by War Angel

[Brother Tyler]

I don't think that either extreme is necessarily the correct way to go.

 

The first post implies that a new range of Astra Militarum models should have the models heavily loaded. Subsequent replies by the OP imply that this should be the norm, with supporting arguments based on anecdotes about modern military forces.

 

The opposite extreme, which I don't quite think that anyone has suggested, is that there should be no options for loading miniatures.

 

The best option, I think, would be for Astra Militarum kits to include optional bits that might allow hobbyists to have as much or as little extra gear as possible.

 

The suggestions to sculpt/convert one's own bits or to use third party bits is fair, but I think it's provided as an option that players can exercise until/unless GW provides official options. That's not gatekeeping.

[War Angel]

I don't think that either extreme is necessarily the correct way to go.

 

The first post implies that a new range of Astra Militarum models should have the models heavily loaded. Subsequent replies by the OP imply that this should be the norm, with supporting arguments based on anecdotes about modern military forces.

 

The opposite extreme, which I don't quite think that anyone has suggested, is that there should be no options for loading miniatures.

 

The best option, I think, would be for Astra Militarum kits to include optional bits that might allow hobbyists to have as much or as little extra gear as possible.

 

The suggestions to sculpt/convert one's own bits or to use third party bits is fair, but I think it's provided as an option that players can exercise until/unless GW provides official options. That's not gatekeeping.

I can stand by this assessment, and apologize for taking things the wrong way. I would like to again add (because you bring up the heavily armed/loaded) that a standard backpack (which my branch of service currently calls either assault pack or day pack) would not be heavily armed. On the otherhand, the size of the packs provided by GW in the HWT box, due to their overstuffed look, I would consider to be on the heavier side.

 

But yeah, the models shouldn’t be forced to have the backpack on them, just like they shouldn’t be forced to have the grenades and water skins.

[MechaMan]

I'm torn on this topic.

 

Within reason, any new kit would be wonderful. We haven't had a new release since April 2014 outside of characters and even the Tempestus Scions didn't necessarily fit neatly into the previous Imperial Guard aesthetic. (No less valid as an AM army, it just represented a different direction design wise and was originally presented as a separate codex). 

 

On the one hand I love the Imperial Armour aesthetic that draws inspiration from scale modelling and includes elements that are not focused solely on wargaming - like the support tanks and the Death Korps of Krieg at ease kits etc. Models that have been made primarily to create a sense of "realism" and allow hobbyists to construct narratives. Perfect diorama fodder. Similarly I love the now discontinued Forge World upgrade packs that allowed you to model your Cadians so it looked like they were on campaign, with kit bags, respirators and other paraphernalia. 

 

On the other hand I would hate for the Guard's aesthetic to actually be driven by pragmatism or slavish imitations of modern warfare. That would mean saying farewell to sponson weapons, world war one and world war two inspired tank designs and regiments whose design language is a quirky combination of features from military history anachronistically intertwined with the 41st millenium. That would metamorphose the Guard into something entirely new and unrecognisable.

 

That said, the Chapterhouse case set a legal precedent vis the scène à faire doctrine and miniature designs. If it can be convincingly argued that Games Workshop's designs are based on ones in the public domain of military history, they might not win copyright claims when a third party manufacturer imitates them. So the reality is, the days of regiments drawn from the fabric of military history (woven into new forms and laced with the 41st millenium) might already be long over. Edit: No comment on the case, no comment on the court's judgement or the jury's finding, just saying the verdict has probably influenced GW's design philosophy.

 

I guess we just have to wait and see. We've had two Catachan releases that have been upscaled in line with the new standard human scale, which is slightly less heroic (and for me, personally, preferable). It wouldn't surprise me if an updated line follows in those two models (as is, ridiculously overpriced and overly exclusive) footsteps. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by MechaMan

[The Mad Hermit]

I like the Cadian stuff for a number of reasons... ease of conversion is, of course, a big one for me.

 

All of the newest GW stuff has been really great in terms of looks/design but it has moved very very far away from being easy to modify/convert for those who enjoy the hobby aspects as much or more so than the playing aspects. It feels that way to me, anyway.

 

Hell, GW even capitalized on the modular nature by adding a  sprues of heads to make the generic Cadians into GSC stuff and those have been (for my meta at least) popular. Changing things over now would be a little odd, I think.

 

Also, I think the current trend of making Primaris all 'streamlined & operator-looking' (my own words here) and very ultra-modern makes them feel VERY out of place for me in terms of the general feel of 40K that I've always loved.

Edited August 22, 2020 by The Mad Hermit

[Warhead01]

 

 

Also, I think the current trend of making Primaris all 'streamlined & operator-looking' (my own words here) and very ultra-modern makes them feel VERY out of place for me in terms of the general feel of 40K that I've always loved.

I completely agree with you on that I find it most repugnant but sadly finally decided to get some of those mini's. Sadly because I know I put rules ahead of the rule of cool. I don't find them remotely cool.

 

And that's the thing with a new Guardsmen kit. I don't want a modern military mini. I want something far more scify bashed with some modern elements. 

I like long coats I like long ponchos I like a stack og magazines in the front where the soldier can easily change them out, as most of us in recent times learn to do it. 

Not for any other reason that it's practical. I like fighting knives and tomahawks as well, even E-tools. 

But there needs to be some unifying 40K ascetic where you look at them and just know they belong. I can see that for some people the older regiments don't have that. I can agree as well. I collected Mordians and Steel legion as well as a small bit of DKoK. But the models I want kinda don't exists currently.  And for all I know lots of people might not like them at all. 

There's a drawing er some art in one of the early PA books, the one with AM and who ever. On page like 68 or something. I like that look. would have liked that as a model. It looks like a bash up of maybe a GSC and AM and Mechanics trooper. 

 

And then it comes back to who you really want to give all the extra cool guy gear to. For me I see conscripts as getting very little more than they need, Infantry troop getting more because they do more and Veterans getting even more because they do even more but it still needs to look good on the table and I guess works better in writing than on the table top.

 

The real problem, as previously identified, as GW will put all of 4 cool kid bits in a box and not as much as you want so you will likely buy more and then mix it up between boxes to sell even more.  Remember not getting all the special weapons in the troop box. 

Or not who knows. In reference to Wargames Atlantic, if they have shown anything it's that you can pack a lot into a box. And I hope GW sees that and realizes it's will make them more money to start doing that again.  Any one else remember 16 Orks boys in a box and something like, what ways it, 20 Catacans per box. 

 

I do wish GW would run a very *controlled poll of what their fans want in a Guardsmen mini and use that to make a new regiment. 

 

* I mean one that can't be easily co-opted by internet trolls. So a letter campaign? or a text your vote? or something. I'd honestly pay them a Dollar to take my vote on that one. 

 

 

Lastly, just because it's on my mind. My previous post about GS and 3rd party was simply saying the option to choose is there and should at least be explored if what you want isn't a thing in production. I'm not, as you might be able to tell from the above, saying GW shouldn't do anything. (We'll except maybe make the Guardsmen a tad smaller... But it doesn't really matter.)  It's your money buy what ever you want from who ever you want.  

 

[The Mad Hermit]

Hell, man. I understand the feeling of them not making what you want.

 

It's why I've been slowly making a strange-looking little force of AM that are inspired by Revolutionary War guys. Like with tricorn hats and stuff.

 

Honestly, though... while I understand everybody's stances on this... I'm good with what we have.

[Akrim]

Astras troop line is horribly outdated. The current Cadians are about 19yrs old, the current Catachans are from 1999.

[Mana]

I started with the hobby last year, i have painted a couple of marines, plague marines, dark eldar, and a grand total of 15 cadians. I actually like the  current cadian sculpts. The sprues are what, from 2003-2004? so like 17-16 years. i can understand that someone who has been in the hobby for that long would actually want new guardsmen minis, in my case i like the current line enough, so i will buy a start collecting, finish my still 5 unpainted cadians and assemble a small ~500 points force.

 

When the 9th edition animated trailer launched, gw said everyone in the trailer will get minis, so i think they will release an updated cadian kit with both genders, also the cadians in the trailer had slightly different armor from the ones the current minis have, but still in the spirit of the current kits. Maybe they will get released when the next guard codex hits, like, next year?

[War Angel]

I started with the hobby last year, i have painted a couple of marines, plague marines, dark eldar, and a grand total of 15 cadians. I actually like the  current cadian sculpts. The sprues are what, from 2003-2004? so like 17-16 years. i can understand that someone who has been in the hobby for that long would actually want new guardsmen minis, in my case i like the current line enough, so i will buy a start collecting, finish my still 5 unpainted cadians and assemble a small ~500 points force.

 

When the 9th edition animated trailer launched, gw said everyone in the trailer will get minis, so i think they will release an updated cadian kit with both genders, also the cadians in the trailer had slightly different armor from the ones the current minis have, but still in the spirit of the current kits. Maybe they will get released when the next guard codex hits, like, next year?

I would be so excited for that.

[MechaMan]

 

When the 9th edition animated trailer launched, gw said everyone in the trailer will get minis, so i think they will release an updated cadian kit with both genders, also the cadians in the trailer had slightly different armor from the ones the current minis have, but still in the spirit of the current kits. Maybe they will get released when the next guard codex hits, like, next year?

 

While I think this is by no means a guarantee, it would be wonderful. We also have the Warhammer Darktide game coming out in 2021, which may or may not mean something. If it did tie in with a new release it would be a good marketing and sales strategy.

 

I would love for the Cadians (or almost any of the other regiments) to get a release in line with the Sisters of Battle relaunch. That, to me, was just the perfect update. It respected the original aesthetic, felt like a love letter to the original models but also demonstrably improved upon them. It also offered lots of options for customisability, helmeted and unhelmeted heads etc etc. That would be fantastic, although I think a horde army like Guard would need to be a bit more modular and a bit less monopose, to avoid the Tempestus Scion Plasma gun problem. If it included all of the options from the discontinued Forge World sets that are depicted in the trailer, that would also be brilliant.

 

It does seem like a bit of a no brainer, they're a popular army, in dire need of an update and also a fantastic way of capturing the diversity of the setting. 

[Inso]

If a new kit / range of kits turn up, I hope that they retain the modular nature of the old kits and not turn into 'single pose' miniatures like those in other ranges. I also hope that the scale stays the same and that they don't end up like the new Sisters of Battle range, which is markedly different in size/scale to its predecessor.

 

An updated Cadian range would be a wasted opportunity to add some variety to the Astra Militarum... especially when you think about all the different regiments that are mentioned in the various Codexes, over the history of the game and how different they all look.

 

Apart from that... A return of the Squats as an Astra Militarum regiment, would be awesome... (regiment traits used to adjust stats accordingly ).

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Inso

[GreenScorpion]

@Inso: If the blackstone fortress traitors are any indication, it seems a new guardsmen line would be roughly the same height, but with slightly slimmer arms, legs and so on. It is similar to what was done with tempestus and GSC hybrids, same height as the cadians, but less bulky, except where they have armour.

The traitors did have female versions as well, which are way thinner (maybe only the males get adequate food) and a newer kit would likely do something similar.
I do feel like the modularity of cadians is way better than that of tempestus and GSC, with their stranger connection between torso and legs.

 

The cadians are great in terms of modularity and it is a shame that GW is moving more towards monopose models.
I have built eschers for example and while they are great kits, the way you have 5 exact bodies to only go in one way is not that great for customization.

With cadians you can replace a torso with another and look will already change significantly without the need of any greenstuffing or modelling skills, which is great.

[Gederas]

Regarding heights:

Jes Goodwin said on a Voxcast that the Skitarii are the new scale for baseline humans. The Sisters and Blackstone Fortress Traitor Guard are all similar in height to the Skitarii.

 

Ergo, any new Guard will be the same size as the Traitor Guard

Edited August 15, 2020 by Gederas

[steellegionnaire85]

Always remember the lighter you are the better you fight. Troops generally only carry around heavy kit if they’re not expecting heavy fighting or setting into a new OP. Now I don’t think that’s at all the reason for the current Cadian kit, but still...

[TootiusNootius]

 

When the 9th edition animated trailer launched, gw said everyone in the trailer will get minis, so i think they will release an updated cadian kit with both genders, also the cadians in the trailer had slightly different armor from the ones the current minis have, but still in the spirit of the current kits. Maybe they will get released when the next guard codex hits, like, next year?

Don't suppose you've got the source of that everyone getting new mini's claim?

 

I am very ready for that. I assume a lot of factions will get new releases alongside their codex's this time around - We've seen hints, obviously the new SM and Necron kits coming alongside their codex's but even after that we saw flashes of Drukhari models in previews and such and seeing as they released a couple of models/units per PA I assume new books could mean new models moving forward to drive sales.

 

If a new Cadian infantry kit comes with the guard codex I will be very happy. I am rebuilding my Guard at the moment and even shaved down all those heretical spikes from the Blackstone Fortress models to make a rough looking grenadier squad for my Cadians and they actually look pretty good next to the normal Cadians so it won't invalidate the old existing models either. With the influx of new Catachan special models I can see the old Catachan infantry squad being retired too to have a better presence next to the better HWT and Command squad models. The tanks won't really need much changing at all, they hold up well and are so iconic in silhouette I doubt GW would risk making sweeping changes to their design so retiring the old Infantry squad kits would be a real step forward for the guard when backed up with new rules.

Edited September 20, 2020 by TootiusNootius