General Tullius Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) I've been mulling over doing a list with some backfield artillery and 5 Duneriders carting barebones Vanguard squads to the midfield. Yes, it's more thematic than tactically sound, but seizing control of the midfield by overwhelming the opponent in numbers and volume of fire could be a wirthwhile strategy in some match-ups. No, that approach is completely original and has never been done before. I'm at 2100 points now and trying to figure out what to drop. Now I'd have to do 2 Battalions and at least one 10 man Vanguard Squad instead of 2x5 to fit all this into a battle forged army. So far I'd like to run this: 3x Enginseer 1x Daedalosus (or that spiffy new Skitarii HQ that has been teased) 10x5 Vanguard 3x5 Rangers w/ 1 Transuranic Arquebus 3x Skorpius Disintegrator w/ Energy Cannon 3x Onager Dunecrawler w/ Stubber and Icarus Array 5x Skorpius Dunerider So what to drop? Apart from the 4th HQ, I don't really see anything I want to give up [Edit: And, of course, I can't give that one up.]. What's most situational of all this are the Icarus Arrays, but I really like the Dunecrawler model What redundancies do you see? Any glaring tactical mistakes? Edited August 12, 2020 by General Tullius Xisor 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) I would replace an Enginseer with a Manipulus for the extra range/charge range. Did they fix Daedalosus not being able to go in transports? Just a mention if you wanted him to move up front. Are you going double Battalion or the fabled Brigade? I am not sure you can fit 10x Vanguard teams in one :D The only problem I see right now is the new costs for our Skorpius tanks, they are pricey now. Edited August 12, 2020 by Black_Knight General Tullius 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tullius Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 I would replace an Enginseer with a Manipulus for the extra range/charge range. Did they fix Daedalosus not being able to go in transports? Just a mention if you wanted him to move up front. Are you going double Battalion or the fabled Brigade? I am not sure you can fit 10x Vanguard teams in one The only problem I see right now is the new costs for our Skorpius tanks, they are pricey now. The Manipulus is just too pricey for this list. That's why I went with the cheapest options - including Daedalosus. He's just the HQ Tax for the second Battalion and will move up after the first wave if I want to make use of him. He's not really there for his abilities though. I'd love to go Brigade, but wuth what I want to run, I'm already busting the limit on points for my two brigades (like I said, I'd have to merge 2 5 man squads into 1 10 man squad to fit it all into detachments) Yeah, the tanks are darn expensive - that's why I need to lose 100 points someway :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Might be worth loosing a transport, you don't need to have everything move up at once and you could probably run some Vanguard to the middle objectives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 You absolutely want some Plasma, or even Arc in those Vanguard Squads. They're lacking punch as is! General Tullius 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tullius Posted August 13, 2020 Author Share Posted August 13, 2020 You absolutely want some Plasma, or even Arc in those Vanguard Squads. They're lacking punch as is! I was hoping to counter their anemic statline by sheer numbers. Upgrading their loadout means I can effectively take less bodies and less volume of shots. If I drop one transport and its load, I can comfortably fit one Caliver in each squad (for two Calivers per Dunerider) without getting over 2000pts. If I drop two transports and their load, I can fit two in each squad, double up on the Transuranic Arquebuses, still be below 2000 and have a total of 45 Skitarii. That seems... very little. Arc Rifles... I mean, I build models carrying them (no heads yet, I will make them Vanguards though) but... yeah, I can't really say why I don't want to use them since the Vanguards won't advance after getting out. I could do 4 transports with 2 calivers and Arc Rifles each without having to scour the web for more Calivers (that's a plus), but resolving the shots will take forever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Having a lot of experience with Vanguard let me tell you... Rad Carbines mostly suck, sadly. The Volume just doesn't really make up for the S3 and the 2D proc is wasted when you're firing at most infantry. One Caliver per squad would be nice, for sure. However, what about close clombat? The Vanguard have an *excellent* -1T debuff that units like Electropriests can make great use of, a bot full of them would be ace. What are you thinking for Forgeworld Dogma? Using the create your own ones from Engine War could be pretty useful here, especially the Rad-Saturated choices which have great synergy with massed Vanguard (albeit the Primary wouldn't help much with you being in transports). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tullius Posted August 13, 2020 Author Share Posted August 13, 2020 Having a lot of experience with Vanguard let me tell you... Rad Carbines mostly suck, sadly. The Volume just doesn't really make up for the S3 and the 2D proc is wasted when you're firing at most infantry. One Caliver per squad would be nice, for sure. However, what about close clombat? The Vanguard have an *excellent* -1T debuff that units like Electropriests can make great use of, a bot full of them would be ace. What are you thinking for Forgeworld Dogma? Using the create your own ones from Engine War could be pretty useful here, especially the Rad-Saturated choices which have great synergy with massed Vanguard (albeit the Primary wouldn't help much with you being in transports). :( Yeah, I'll include at least one Arc Rifle or Caliver per Squad then. Probably both. I'd like to stick to what used to be the Skitarii Codex units (not opposed to the 2020 releases though), at least 'til I get tabled often enough to really want to go for other AdMech. Forgeworld? I'm torn between Custom (Rad-Saturation +1 AP to Radium) and Graia. I feel like the Vanguard will get decimated in CC anyways so everything that helps them thin the enemy ranks before they die is welcome. I don't think I should plan further than that. But I'm moving further and further away from the initial idea for this list. By now, I could just as well only take 3 transports and use the remaining 200pts or so for some air support or cavalry? I'd sure like to just shove 50 Vanguard up the table though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magos Takatus Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 It's a shame really, from what I heard when Skitarii were first introduced their Radium Carbines were pretty fearsome. Since then they have lost a lot of their bite verses many targets. At least if what I heard is correct and standard marines are going up to 2 wounds then Radium Carbines will deal with the change a little better than some other weapons with their special ability. General Tullius 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 I wish the extra wound that Radium Carbines produced on a 6 would 'spill over' to extra models in the unit if they only have one wound. It could be a modest improvement to the weapon that would be somewhat unique and actually be in line with how Rad Carbines are described as working. It's complete wish-listing but GW seems to be really shaking things up this edition so it's within the realm of possibility. My current (but obsolete) list has 40 Skitarii Vanguard and 10 Rangers so I can appreciate the desire to drop lots of bodies on the table. However, I also created the list before the Dunerider was an option, planned on playing Lucius for the option to teleport units, and then all of the other new toys AdMech received were released so now I'm sorta in the same boat; I want to find a way to keep as many Skitarii bodies as possible without sacrificing too many fun toys to do it. Massed infantry can be very effective but it tends to be a hit-or-miss approach as some people will be caught off guard and struggle to put out the volume of firepower needed to deal with it all, conversely other opponents will wipe you off the table quickly because you don't have enough hard units to blunt their offense. A lot will depend on your local meta, as always. P.S. The AdMech line was artificially split into two factions in a really hamfisted manner that was more about marketing and sales rather than any logical reason why they should be considered separate in some way. Don't let that constraint box you in to a list you'll enjoy less because you want to honour the strange choice GW made years ago that has since been reversed. Magos Takatus and General Tullius 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magos Takatus Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 I'm not normally someone that sticks to the "boys before toys" adage but I love the standard Skitarii models so even I want to see lots of them on the table. The bonus wounds used to spill over in 7th, right? With Marines of all stripes getting extra wounds regaining better firepower could really help us. General Tullius and Xisor 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tullius Posted August 15, 2020 Author Share Posted August 15, 2020 P.S. The AdMech line was artificially split into two factions in a really hamfisted manner that was more about marketing and sales rather than any logical reason why they should be considered separate in some way. Don't let that constraint box you in to a list you'll enjoy less because you want to honour the strange choice GW made years ago that has since been reversed. It's really just that I love the looks of the Skitarii models. The rest of AdMech, like Electropriests, well... not so much. So the fact that the rift between the designs I like and those I don't runs exactly where GW decided to split the army is mere coincidence. Fielding a lot of baseline infantry is my favorite part of 40k and I'm trying to make it work with AdMech. If Vanguard in transports lack punch, maybe 3 transports full of Vanguard and 30 Rangers with 6 Transuranic Rifles might satisfy that desire while keeping the points down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 I've always found my Ruststalkers to be almost good. Not astonishingly good like Electropriests (when they work), but able to pull off nifty little surprises and unexpectedly handy contributions. I used to play Graia, so that 6+ don't die roll (rather than 6++ vs wounds/MWs), was weirdly invaluable. (But also weirdly unhelpful, as there's no possible way I could see to rely on it, short of going to town with 20 model electropriest units and 12-model destroyers, and even then...) I digress. I recall rad-saturated forge-worlds have a combo that seems particularly deliberately suited to this sort of list. I'd think possibly something like this: 2x Enginseer 1x Daedalosus (or that spiffy new Skitarii HQ that has been teased) 10x3 Vanguard 2x5 Vanguard 1x5 Rangers w/2 TUA 2x5 Ruststalkers (to go in with the 2x5 Vanguard) 3x Skorpius Disintegrator w/ Energy Cannon 3x Onager Dunecrawler w/ Stubber and Icarus Array 5x Skorpius Dunerider Haven't worked the points, but something along those lines might work better, give you a few more options, and fit more into the five boats. (3 dealing 'heavy shots', 2 'packing a little punch' [err, claw?]) Better than that, everyone has such a low opinion of Ruststalkers, it's almost* guaranteed they'll exceed expectations! * It is not at all guaranteed. General Tullius and Magos Takatus 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magos Takatus Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 With the Rad Saturation being everywhere in the army is could make the Ruststalkers punch a bit above their weight. That does sound kinda fun. I would need even more Vanguard to run that list though, I have 2 full Vanguard squads and a full Ranger squad. If I grab any of the new Start Collecting boxes it would get me a lot closer to completion though. I don't think I'll do that right now but I'm going to keep an ocular implant trained on this thread though. walter h and General Tullius 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tullius Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) With what has been said in this thread, I've thrown together this list, still trying to maximise the amount of troops on the field while adding more punch to the units. I've purposefully forgone options such as Ruststalkers or anything Engine War, really, to try and go heavy on Skitarii. The plan here would be what it always has been, with the exception of the 3 Arc Rifle Squads forming some kind of second row support, either following behind the transports or dropping in from reserves. They won't do that quite as well as other units might. The burning wuestion is wether to make them Rangers or Vanguards though. I'm kinda set on rangers since they'd all be wielding RF weapons and won't ever get close enough for Rad Saturation to make a difference. It's just that once I want to change this setup, I'm stuck with 24" Rangers... Sure, I could always use nondescript are heads (don't wanna, but I could), but that aside, should I go with Rangers or Vanguard for the second row? Or for a completely different list 3x Enginseer 1x Daedalosus (or that spiffy new Skitarii HQ that has been teased) 6x5 Vanguard 3x5 Skitarii? w/ 2 Arc Rifles 3x5 Rangers w/ 2 Transuranic Arquebuses and Omnispex 3x Skorpius Disintegrator w/ Energy Cannon 3x Onager Dunecrawler w/ Stubber and Icarus Array 3x Skorpius Dunerider 1940 points total I'm now taking Xisors post to heart and am both looking for other units I might want to use instead as well as a Forgeworld that suits this list. Edited August 18, 2020 by General Tullius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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