Primer on Effectiveness of Different Vehicle Weapons

[Cris R]

Hi Folks, I'm in the process of beefing up an infantry-heavy Blood Angels list and I've been reading a lot about which vehicles are strong selections for anti-infantry, air, and armor. That said, a lot of these sources don't explain the reason certain vehicle weapons are more effective against air and armor units. I've got a good grasp of which weapons work well against infantry but need a primer that outlines what works against the other two types of units in 30k. Does anyone have a good primer on this topic that they can share with me? Videos, forum threads, or websites all work for me. Thanks!

[Marshal Vespasian]

1d4chan about Legion units is pretty legit.

That said: everything that gains skyfire and or intercept is GOLD vs air units. High rate of fire is preferable due to jink saves. Which makes the sicaran dpibly good as its twin linked sunder and forxes rerolls on the jink save. Also note that most good aa weapons (sicaran, sicaran arcus (which is ridicoulously good vs everything short of av14) and dual kheres contemptors) will also hurt light armour and infantry. Most of these units also rock rending combined with lots of dice, so they will propably also at least thresten heavy/elite inftantry with 2+ saves.

 

When it comes to at you want several things a) reliable hits b) reliable pens c) good ap for that juicy +1 or +2

Broadly there is four categories:

 

- high shot low to mid strength guns with rending aka assault cannons aka your anti air. They will reliably pop a rhino a round and at least glance a sicaran or pred to get some hull points off. Note that against a rhino from behind even the humble boltpistol can fill this roll. Its pretty funny to have your melee squad pop a transport with their guns and then (disordered) charge its Contents. If your melee squad is close to an enemy transport do not forget about grenades. Take that s6 hit.

 

- Melee AT. Comes on different flavours and is certainly the most effective way if you only look at mathhammer. On the charge you will get a bunch of attacks, you will always hit the back of vehicles and armourbane is pretty easy to get. This is were meltabombs, chainfisted termis and contemptors and siegewrecker wielding leviathans dwell. Due to high strength, armourbane. and volume of attacls you will reliably threaten what you want to threaten and pen it as well. This does leave you Open to being shot at and charged by whatever that spartan or landraider or whatever was carrying next turn though.

 

- melta. Short range and sadly propably inefficient vs most expensive (200pts+) units die to people shelling out for armoured ceramite to protect their big hitters. Very good vs dreads and the like. And a squad of 8 to 12 melta guys (depending on deployment method) will still force glances on av 14. and hey maybe your opponent was being greedy and saved on the armoured ceramite.

Side note: plasma is s7 and will be able to threaten things like sicarans with 2 shots per gun at 12''.

 

- finally your big anti tank guns: low shot Count (so hopefully twin linked) high strength (9/10), ideally with ordnance, Tank hunter, armpurbane, sunder or something similar to give you mor chances to fish for that 4 or 5. Also low ap so you can blow something up on a 5 or 6.

 

I feel like you need a mix of all of them. The sicaran venator is super cool on paper. Two shots ordnance and glances lrs on a 4+. Or a deredeo, he will even potentially deal additional damage on a pen. If you pen. The low shot Count is why a lr looks like a good combined transport and gun plattform on paper but in reality rarely holds up in hunting other tanks. But that is not its job.

 

 

 

Hope this makes some sense and is sonewhat readable. Its pretty late and I'm typing on my phone. And of course I am certainly not a definitive Authority on anything and will be glad for someone to correct me if i am wrong.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Marshal Vespasian

[Erren]

Something to keep in mind also is that some people on here have quite competitive local metas. They need to reliably destroy a Spartan or a Kharybdis on turn 1 (2 at the latest). Maybe 2 of them, but then you're more in "don't play that person" territory for a lot of people. Space Marines have limited options if that's what they want to do - they'll often be using some sort of Grav weaponry (rapiers, dreadnoughts, land speeders) to get those transports dead before they get their terrifying CC contents across the table.

 

If you don't feel the need to kill a Spartan on turn 1, then your options open up a bunch.

[Cris R]

Something to keep in mind also is that some people on here have quite competitive local metas. They need to reliably destroy a Spartan or a Kharybdis on turn 1 (2 at the latest). Maybe 2 of them, but then you're more in "don't play that person" territory for a lot of people. Space Marines have limited options if that's what they want to do - they'll often be using some sort of Grav weaponry (rapiers, dreadnoughts, land speeders) to get those transports dead before they get their terrifying CC contents across the table.

 

If you don't feel the need to kill a Spartan on turn 1, then your options open up a bunch.

Thanks so far for the responses! Give me both options for tabling a Spartan in turn one as well as ones if I’m playing with a less competitive meta. My 30k outlet is the NOVA Open and it tends to be more narrative focused but I want to keep my options open.

 

Marshal, the Arcus and Venator are on the shortlist for tanks after reading the 1d4Chan Space Marines tactic page. Good to know it gets solid reviews from other folks.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Cris R

[The Scorpion]

 

Something to keep in mind also is that some people on here have quite competitive local metas. They need to reliably destroy a Spartan or a Kharybdis on turn 1 (2 at the latest). Maybe 2 of them, but then you're more in "don't play that person" territory for a lot of people. Space Marines have limited options if that's what they want to do - they'll often be using some sort of Grav weaponry (rapiers, dreadnoughts, land speeders) to get those transports dead before they get their terrifying CC contents across the table.

 

If you don't feel the need to kill a Spartan on turn 1, then your options open up a bunch.

Thanks so far for the responses! Give me both options for tabling a Spartan in turn one as well as ones if I’m playing with a less competitive meta. My 30k outlet is the NOVA Open and it tends to be more narrative focused but I want to keep my options open.

 

Marshal, the Arcus and Venator are on the shortlist for tanks after reading the 1d4Chan Space Marines tactic page. Good to know it gets solid reviews from other folks.

The only way to reliably blow a +375pts Spartan (aka: with both flare shield and armored ceramite) is with the Kraken missiles of the Primaris Lighting, which is a flyer that starts in reserve and thus comes on turn 2 at best.

 

Note that 375pts is the price of the Spartan without non-durability upgrades or the even more expensive Deathstar that will be riding inside. That's a brick worth between a third and a half of your opponents army. Ignoring it or feeding it a tarpit it up can be a viable option.

Edited August 14, 2020 by The Scorpion

[Erren]

2 units of 3 Grav Rapiers will absolutely wreck a Spartan turn one. Much easier if you can infiltrate them (Raven Guard, Alpha Legion), though.

[Cris R]

 

 

Something to keep in mind also is that some people on here have quite competitive local metas. They need to reliably destroy a Spartan or a Kharybdis on turn 1 (2 at the latest). Maybe 2 of them, but then you're more in "don't play that person" territory for a lot of people. Space Marines have limited options if that's what they want to do - they'll often be using some sort of Grav weaponry (rapiers, dreadnoughts, land speeders) to get those transports dead before they get their terrifying CC contents across the table.

 

If you don't feel the need to kill a Spartan on turn 1, then your options open up a bunch.

Thanks so far for the responses! Give me both options for tabling a Spartan in turn one as well as ones if I’m playing with a less competitive meta. My 30k outlet is the NOVA Open and it tends to be more narrative focused but I want to keep my options open.

 

Marshal, the Arcus and Venator are on the shortlist for tanks after reading the 1d4Chan Space Marines tactic page. Good to know it gets solid reviews from other folks.

The only way to reliably blow a +375pts Spartan (aka: with both flare shield and armored ceramite) is with the Kraken missiles of the Primaris Lighting, which is a flyer that starts in reserve and thus comes on turn 2 at best.

 

Note that 375pts is the price of the Spartan without non-durability upgrades or the even more expensive Deathstar that will be riding inside. That's a brick worth between a third and a half of your opponents army. Ignoring it or feeding it a tarpit it up can be a viable option.

 

Yeah, the Primaris may pop into the Fast Attack slot in my DoR list for that specific purpose. Outside of Spartan tabling, what tanks in the Fast Attack slot are good for anti-armor and anti-air? I've heard the Sabres with the Neutron Blaster is one option but it's less hardier than other models in this slot.

 

Erren, I play Blood Angels and Dark Angels, so I'm limited with infiltration unfortunately. But I appreciate the tip!

Edited August 14, 2020 by Cris R

[The Scorpion]

As far as I know, sabres are the only unit in the FA slot that has the tank type.

 

The Proteus DT of the seekers is also an option, buy Land Raiders aren't tank destroyers.

Edited August 15, 2020 by The Scorpion

[Enurta]

For FA slots:

Landspeeder Squadron with Grav Gun+Multi Melta will make short work of most vehicles in the game.

 

Sabres with Neutron Blaster is okay. The lack of Ordnance means it is just single fancy lascannon. It excels more in light vehicle popping with Autocannon+Volkite.

 

Javelins are great for their points cost and will shred most Light and Medium Vehicles. Still fishing for 6s against AV14.

 

Lightning with Kraken Missiles will kill most vehicles pretty easily, unless it’s mine and rolls 4 1s against a Primarch death stars Spartan.

[The Scorpion]

How does graviton fare against those dreaded Spartans? Does the haywire + difficult terrain manages to slow them enough as to prevent them from earning back their points? Edited August 21, 2020 by The Scorpion

[Slips]

If youre taking Graviton for anti-tank youre not really using it for Difficult Terrain (unless the vehicle is carrying stuff which you subsequently slow down), youre taking it for the 2+ to glance and hoping to just delete the vehicle outright.

 

Hence why regular box dreads in pods with 2x Fists w/ Grav Guns were rather popular a few years back because they could just deepstrike and have each dread stand a good chance at stripping 2 HP off a vehicle each before the opponent could really do anything.

 

With the orbital assault permitting entire Box or Contemptor talons to take pods it makes for an interesting choice since you can drop down 6 grav guns pretty much wherever thanks to Inertial Guidance and stand a good chance at deleting a spartan and, if you position your pods just right, trap the contents of the spartan forcing the enemy to deal with 3 pods and/or 3 dreads.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Slips

[Marshal Vespasian]

How does graviton fare against those dreaded Spartans? Does the haywire + difficult terrain manages to slow them enough as to prevent them from earning back their points?

A grav volley can reliably kill a spartan a turn if its enough shots.for example two mechanicum potatoes which are 3 grav shots a turn will annihilate it. Since you glance on a 2+ and pen on a 5+ or 6+ youll just hullpoint the guy and go on

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's also important to note that each blast creates its own instance of difficult/dangerous terrain. So you critically damage a tank with your volley, and then force it to take a coinflip on the chance to take another hull point and immobilized.