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Iron Hands diffirent close combat style? (fluff)

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#1
Token

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Would Iron Hands have a diffirent close combat fighting style then other chapters, becaurse of their limbs being able to rotate and such, in dififrent ways then natural limbs? If they have the bionics...


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#2
MetalMammoth

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I don't think I've ever heard of a marine who's bionics didn't follow the normal human body plan, at least to the extent of the number and arrangement of joints. They'd move pretty much the same as flesh and blood marines.

#3
apologist

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As MetalMammoth says, such a concept hasn't been explored as for as I'm aware. Cool concept for a short story, though. 

 

The human form is sacred to a number of groups in 40k, including some factions of the Adeptus Mechanicus; so there might be some cultural reason (in addition to practicality) why bionics tend to follow human norms. Your Clan or individual's personal philosophy might therefore be important in crafting such a story.


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#4
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Thanks for the input, I do think that a marine captain or such had three hearts in one of the books, and survived becaruse of it, the enemy thought he pierced the marines both hearts, so they probably dont copy regular marine physiology 100 percent.


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#5
Juggernut

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Ooh very interesting to think about, though. Reminds me of general grievous from Star Wars, sans the lightsabers. Hands could fully rotate and such.

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#6
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Mostly just more resilient so could take higher risks.
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#7
Morovir

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You want to read David Guymer's 40k Iron Hands books. Iron Father Kristos is the sort of thing you're looking for.

 

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#8
Lord_Caerolion

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The problem with this as a wide-spread thing is that firstly, not all Marines are going to have the same bionics (other than the bionic hand that all Iron Hands have), and secondly that all bionics will not be to the same specifications and have the same abilities. It's hard for a squad to use a fighting style when half the members don't have the limb involved in a particular move being bionic but still flesh, and three quarters of those who do have bionics don't have the range of movement required, their bionics basically just being a metal replacement, nothing more.

 

It's a cool idea, but it's more something that each individual Marine would tailor to their own specifications and capabilities, rather than "the Iron Hands method".


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#9
Black Blow Fly

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Buzz kill...

 

Iron Hands are artisans like their great Primarch. They can fashion their bionic components as they see fit... it could be to run faster, strike harder or shoot better.


Edited by Black Blow Fly, 18 August 2020 - 12:41 AM.

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#10
Lord_Caerolion

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Which, coincidentally, is the name of the personal fighting style of Captain of the 8th, Iron Captain Doroor "buzzsaw bionics" Hesh.


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#11
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Buzz kill...

Iron Hands are artisans like their great Primarch. They can fashion their bionic components as they see fit... it could be to run faster, strike harder or shoot better.


Iron Hands aren’t artisans, they’re incredible pragmatists and dogged on doctrine and tradition. That’s part of why Stronos and Feirros are given the side-eye, and part of why Kristos needed to be ousted.
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#12
Black Blow Fly

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More of his organs and limbs are replaced with bionic augmetics, each inherently superior to the original. To some outsiders, this is a supreme blasphemy, for many of the organs eventually discarded are those that make a Space Marine what he is, and which are the direct inheritance of the Emperor and the Primarch.


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#13
Lord_Caerolion

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And this is why my Iron Hands successors think the Iron Hands are borderline heretics. Thinking you can improve upon the geneseed created by the Omnissiah Himself? Awful uppity, that.


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#14
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Maybe a techmarine could give kinda the same bionics to a whole squad, and they can then learn to use it as  whole squad, building on some basic technices the chapter has developed for that specific bionic?

Another thing: Im guessing that installing bionics also requires an apothecary?


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#15
jokaero weaponsmith

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Which regards to bionic installs I believe that was the role of the Iron fathers as they are neither apothecary or techmarine . 
To me it is why the were held in such Esteem and often on the clan council.

Over a period of time a Iron father may have conducted modifications on most if not all of his clan members.
With the recon of the fluff who knows.

With regards to a close combat fighting style Iron Hands use to have digital weapons that gave  a boost in the older lore,  I would have to look it up.

If the bionics don’t move in a natural way it would go some way to explaining exposed bionics as the armour would not accommodate a unnatural range of movement.

As for a uniform fighting style, I think that the clans of medusa may have developed fighting styles that maybe continued to be used by the Iron Hands. Maybe suited to the hand to hand in the close confines of a crawler boarder Action fighting.

But as stated unless all the members had the same range of movement it wouldn’t be possible to school the members.

That said all initiates have there left hand removed to become an Iron Hand maybe the fighting style is based on this fact and all their bionic hands can spin or something.
I didn’t realise how much I miss a good fluff discussion that said I still struggle to embrace the new stuff.


Edited by jokaero weaponsmith, 18 August 2020 - 07:33 AM.


#16
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Friendly warning... If we can’t avoid insulting and arguing in an innocuous thread like this, we shouldn’t be posting. One can disagree with ideas without insulting the frater who expresses them.

Edited by Juggernut, 18 August 2020 - 10:11 AM.

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#17
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A little story from a well played IH Techmarine in my Deathwatch group.

 

1. Fighting a trio of Tyranid Warriors, after a few rounds (that didnt went well) the IH activates a Krak grenade and rams it into a cut of the warriors carapace. He loses a hand (the iron one) but the Warrior. The IF leader furiously asks him, why he did such a foolish thing, better suited to a Space Wolf. His answer: "My calculations said it increased our chance of winning by 3,1%"

 

2. Still fighting Tyranids, the group needs to assault a position held by Genestealer Cultists with heavy weapons over an open area. Without informing the group leader, he orders the supporting Astra Militarum to charge, which motivated by the local commissar they did. The Deathwatch moved after them, killing the cultists but all soldiers died. His explanation: "We took less damage and we can now use the supply of the Cultists and the Soldiers."

 

To sum it up, I think IH would use any cybernetic enhancement neccessary to improve their odds in a pure calculated way. I think I read a story somewhere, where IH were massively enhanced with powerdrills and such for an assault. (so Centurions basically)


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#18
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On the main topic, I think this may be tied in to why IH are noted for favouring axes and hammers as their melee of choice (outside the hammer being Ferrus’ thing) - they’re not weapons that need the same finesse as a blade, so someone with an assault focus can leverage the extra strength from a bionic without it needing to have much delicacy in the implant. Just pure piston-driven.


Edited by Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch, 18 August 2020 - 02:37 PM.
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#19
Black Blow Fly

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It actually requires more skill to fight with an axe.


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#20
Raktra

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Finesse =/= skill.

#21
Black Blow Fly

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I’ve watched several YouTube channels on the subject and they both said axes require more skill.


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#22
Raktra

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Okay good for you but I said *finesse*. It’s the comparative delicacy of swordplay that’s the difference.

#23
Black Blow Fly

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There’s all kinds of axes though.


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#24
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All kinds of swords 🤷🏿‍♀️

#25
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It's worth noting that when senior Iron Hands have taken the stage in BL material, the emphasis tends to be on their brutality and the strength and speed which really high-grade augmetics bestow rather than drastically divergent technique. Henricos springs to mind especially in that regard.


Edited by bluntblade, 18 August 2020 - 10:21 PM.

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