51 replies to this topic

[Kelborn]

The title says it all, BL announced a new character driven novel done by Gav Thorpe. It will cover Luther of the Dark Angels.

Can't copy links as of now due to limited rights at my work pc so it'd be appreciated if someone could link the related article.

Love him or hate him, he's going to do it.

I, for one, enjoy his DA stuff so I'm eager to read it. Curious if he'll conclude some loose strings from his previous work.

Hopefully, though I doubt it, will we have more about such DA enclaves like Wraight implemented in Wolfking. Those were a great inspiration, imho.

Cheers,
Kel

Edited by Kelborn, 13 August 2020 - 02:59 PM.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I haven't read as much of his stuff, but I'm excited to read it. Luther is one of my favorite characters in the setting, so I would very much like to see it.

The early DA is being filled out quite strongly right now, with the next HH campaign book, the Lion primarch novel and now Luther. I assume that, along with the other two books, this will define the faction quite a bit moving forward. I would conclude there is a bit of a purpose to releasing this given the context.

[Gederas]

Kelborn, it's Luther, not Luthor

 

Here's the article

 

The thing is, I'm reading the Dark Angels novel series now and I don't see where all the hate for Gav is coming from? It's not the best, but not the worst. Solid B so far.

[Ranulf]

Warhammer Community: First of the Fallen

 

 

 

 

I, for one, enjoy his DA stuff so I'm eager to read it. 

 

 

 

I'm expecting the worst. 

 

I really, really hope i'm wrong.

 

-Ran

 

Edit: Ninja'd by Gederas. 

Edited by Ranulf, 13 August 2020 - 03:01 PM.

[rookie40K]

Kelborn, it's Luther, not Luthor

Here's the article

The thing is, I'm reading the Dark Angels novel series now and I don't see where all the hate for Gav is coming from? It's not the best, but not the worst. Solid B so far.

The hate is because the Indomitus novel was so bad. Some of his stuff was not bad, but that novel is the cause for such a negative reaction.

[Gederas]

Kelborn, it's Luther, not Luthor

Here's the article

The thing is, I'm reading the Dark Angels novel series now and I don't see where all the hate for Gav is coming from? It's not the best, but not the worst. Solid B so far.

The hate is because the Indomitus novel was so bad. Some of his stuff was not bad, but that novel is the cause for such a negative reaction.

You haven't seen the Dark Angels/NRA forum's threads about this, have you?

[rookie40K]

No. I have not.

[Kelborn]

I stand corrected.

Thanks for the links, guys.

Would be cool if we get a Lorgar-ish equivalent for Caliban & Luther in terms of world building and such cause that was fantastic in his take on Lorgars past.

I agree, either one enjoys it or utterly hates his work it seems. Well, wait and see.

[theSpirea]

I'm quite surprised to see so many negative comments, mainly NRA section.

I just realised, I haven't read any Gav's 40K novel. Only audio drama Our Martyred Lady, which I think was superb. And The Read Feast (AoS), enjoyed that one as well.

I might skip the LE and will get just a regular hardcover. Unless I magically manage to catch up and read the Caliban trilogy by then.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think I'll get the LE, especially if it matches the Primarch novel ones.

I only have the LE Lion book and don't really intend to get any more LE primarch novels, so it would be nice to have the pair.

[theSpirea]

I believe we should expect the similar LE as Valdor. Doubt it will be the same as Primarchs LEs.

[Gederas]

I'm quite surprised to see so many negative comments, mainly NRA section.

I just realised, I haven't read any Gav's 40K novel. Only audio drama Our Martyred Lady, which I think was superb. And The Read Feast (AoS), enjoyed that one as well.

I might skip the LE and will get just a regular hardcover. Unless I magically manage to catch up and read the Caliban trilogy by then.

There's six Dark Angels novels by Gav across two Omnibuses actually. Specifically: Legacy of Caliban (Ravenwing, Master of Sanctity, The Unforgiven) and Knights of Caliban (The Purging of Kadillus, Angels of Darkness, Azrael).

 

And I swear, I think most of the negativity comes from Gav being the one who caused the "Fallen are Loyal, Lion is Traitor" memes because of Astelan's monologue rant. Despite, you know, Astelan being a Fallen.

 

I stand corrected.

Thanks for the links, guys.

Would be cool if we get a Lorgar-ish equivalent for Caliban & Luther in terms of world building and such cause that was fantastic in his take on Lorgars past.

I agree, either one enjoys it or utterly hates his work it seems. Well, wait and see.

I mean, I feel he's a solid B so far of what I've read from his Dark Angels novels. Certainly better than Phil Kelly's War of Secrets

 

 

Edit: I'll just reiterate what I said about my thoughts on Gav in the NRA thread:

Oooh interesting, i think Luther has not done well in the main HH series so id be interested to see if Thorpe can recover it a bit, the framing of lots of interrogations sounds interesting too.

Yeah, this is very interesting. And seeing as how Gav wrote the vast majority for 40k Dark Angel novels (I think the only 40k novels I've read that are about Dark Angels that aren't Gav are Eye of Ezekiel (CZ Dunn, which is amazing) and War of Secrets (Phil Kelly, less said about this one the better... ) and the Space Wolf novel that involved a Fallen)

 

Edited by Gederas, 13 August 2020 - 03:42 PM.

[Knockagh]

I think I'll get the LE, especially if it matches the Primarch novel ones.

I only have the LE Lion book and don't really intend to get any more LE primarch novels, so it would be nice to have the pair.

I’m assuming it will match ‘Birth of the Imperium’

[Roomsky]

My frustration with this announcement is less that it’s Thorpe and more that it’s yet more Thorpe on a legion he’s probably had more influence on than any other Black Library author has had on something that isn’t their own creation. If it was, for example, Thorpe announced for a Malcador novel I’d be far less annoyed, even optimistic based on things like Lorgar.

 

The guy impresses me more when given a topic he really has to work at to develop because it’s been otherwise unexplored. Short of Angels of Caliban, he’s written nothing about the 1^st since Angels of Darkness I’ve found even remotely tolerable. To me it reads like he’s less concerned about actually telling a story at this point, and more about making his ongoing kudzu plot yet more convoluted.

 

I’ll be even less inclined if Astelan is inserted into another story to shoulder aside more relevant characters.

[Scribe]

I actually had no issue with Gav's original (I think?) DA book. Maybe its the mists of time clouding it, but compared to the absolute refusal I have to accept his Raven Guard works in 30K..it was fine.

[DarkChaplain]

From the writeup on WarCom, it sounds like it'll kind of be a spiritual successor to Angels of Darkness, in that it'll be a series of interrogations as a framing device to explore Luther as a character, his actions and decisions.

 

While we can extrapolate and interpret most of his overall actions during the Great Crusade and Heresy, and a bit before that, we never really got into his head. We never really had alone-time with him. Even Zahariel didn't really have "honest" chats about what was going on in the novels, and Astelan always manipulated and misrepresented everything to his favor.

 

We can see Luther being conflicted in many scenes across the Heresy series. Doubting himself, as much as the Lion or the Emperor. There's SO MUCH there that can be explored, and not in a simple plot, but throughout the various phases of his life: The miracle knight, the knightly lord, the father figure, the footnote in the Lion's shadow, the man seeking to free his people from the opressive nature of Caliban, just to tumble into a completely industrialized world rid of all the charms he cherished, a culture destroyed. A man who wondered if he made a mistake in saving Jonson, hesitating when faced with an opportunity. A man cast aside under the guise of honour. A man who wanted freedom from yet another system of oppression. A man who ended up learning too much of the lore of Caliban and the Warp, who saw yet another opportunity but did not wholly grasp it yet reject it until his hand was ultimately forced into treachery, with all other paths cut off.

 

There's so much to Luther as a character, little of which we've seen in detail - because even in the books, even as Zahariel becomes somewhat his protege, Luther himself was still always a distant figure on the sidelines, who had to hold up appearances.

I'm super duper stoked to see him be brutally honest in the cells of the Rock, to see the glimpses that shaped the man of honour and glory into one despised as an arch-traitor for not only rising up against the man he should have been the closest to, but also "killing" him before looking at his work in horror.

 

The more I think about Luther as a character, the more I am feeling like he might be one of the most compelling personalities in the entire fluff. And... he has a part to play yet, outside of the Rock.

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

I’m assuming it will match ‘Birth of the Imperium’

That would make sense, but to me would be a bit of a missed opportunity. To me, it seems obvious that someone would want to pair the Lion El'Jonson book with the Luther book. I think I'll still get it, but I do wish they would match.

[Fedor]

Release date is earlier than i expected. I'm not clued up on all Thorpe's 40k work, so i hope this goes much more into the direction of being a character work that can stand alone.

[Knockagh]

I’m also hoping Gav uses the interrogation of Luther as format of the book. If anyone has been subjected to prolonged interrogation it’s Luther. Poor mans head must be fried. It’s a perfect opportunity to show us his prison properly and reveal his thoughts.
Luther has a prominent role in current lore which has yet to be explained. This would certainly set the scene for a current event book telling us how he got involved with all his current meddling

Edited by Knockagh, 13 August 2020 - 09:33 PM.

[mc warhammer]

generally, i really like gav's shorter form stories like lorgar and the his anthology stuff. so here's hoping for that to be the case here.

 

though, i'm just not interested in luther, for some reason.

[Bobss]

We don't really know this book's genesis - did Gav Thorpe pitch this idea, and no one else is really interested to challenge him for it or pitch it earlier; or was he approached by The BL Boys because he has a history of doing Dark Angels?

 

Either way, regardless of whether it is a solid look at Luther or just another part of Thorpe's Dark (Angels) Coil pet project, it is a waste of potential for another author to have a crack at them. I'm not hugely keen on David Guymer's writing, but his Dark Angels in the Lion's Primarchs book properly conveyed the scale, mindset, role, relationship and technological idiosyncrasies of the First Legion in the Warhammer 30k setting - without shoehorning Fallen foreshadowing or Flanderized secrets boring bollocks into the mix

Edited by Bobss, 14 August 2020 - 12:39 AM.

[mc warhammer]

have to agree that i'd have preferred another author's take on DA, just for the sake of fresh perspective if not a knock on thorpe. that's generally how i feel about mcniell and the TS and wraight and the WS too. strangely, it's the opposite with abnett and the AL. i feel like he needs to come back and pick up what he put down in legion.

[Fedor]

We don't really know this book's genesis - did Gav Thorpe pitch this idea, and no one else is really interested to challenge him for it or pitch it earlier; or was he approached by The BL Boys because he has a history of doing Dark Angels?

 

Either way, regardless of whether it is a solid look at Luther or just another part of Thorpe's Dark (Angels) Coil pet project, it is a waste of potential for another author to have a crack at them. I'm not hugely keen on David Guymer's writing, but his Dark Angels in the Lion's Primarchs book properly conveyed the scale, mindset, role, relationship and technological idiosyncrasies of the First Legion in the Warhammer 30k setting - without shoehorning Fallen foreshadowing or Flanderized secrets boring bollocks into the mix

Thorpe does mention at the start of the previously linked interview that it was a pleasant surprise to be asked by one of the editors to do a character series book on Luther. So seemingly a BL idea.

[Kelborn]

have to agree that i'd have preferred another author's take on DA, just for the sake of fresh perspective if not a knock on thorpe. that's generally how i feel about mcniell and the TS and wraight and the WS too. strangely, it's the opposite with abnett and the AL. i feel like he needs to come back and pick up what he put down in legion.

Did you read the Ahriman trilogy or The Last Hunt (WS) by MacNiven?

Can only recommend these two.

But overall, I agree, sometimes a fresh take can be pleasing but unfortunately it sometimes is not, as well.

Think it's overall a difficult decision of who's doing what, etc.

[mc warhammer]

have to agree that i'd have preferred another author's take on DA, just for the sake of fresh perspective if not a knock on thorpe. that's generally how i feel about mcniell and the TS and wraight and the WS too. strangely, it's the opposite with abnett and the AL. i feel like he needs to come back and pick up what he put down in legion.

Did you read the Ahriman trilogy or The Last Hunt (WS) by MacNiven?

Can only recommend these two.

But overall, I agree, sometimes a fresh take can be pleasing but unfortunately it sometimes is not, as well.

Think it's overall a difficult decision of who's doing what, etc.

i've read the first two ahriman, which i dig, but for some reason doesn't feel like a tsons book to me so much as an ahriman book? not really sure why

but i suppose i should clarify that i meant 30k specifically. overall, i agree. it's case by case but after a few books, i find some authors tend to retread the same themes on a legion rather than revealing new levels