The New Anti-Personnel Question

[Iron Father Ferrum]

So heavy bolters are going to D2 according to the WarCom article. Assuming they will suffer a small point increase in response, does this make them more attractive than chaincannons?

 

For non-Astartes targets, the chaincannons' higher rate of fire is an obvious benefit, but the nigh-ubiquity of Astartes makes the heavy bolter more inviting as a TAAC weapon.

 

Obviously we'll need to see point changes before we carve our final analyses in stone, but I'm curious about everyone's knee-jerk reactions.

[Khornestar]

I love heavy bolters, at least conceptually. This is a most welcome buff. Hopefully it's still 3 shots. Quad Heavy Bolters (assuming they'll still exist) are going to be very powerful, if pointed in a sane fashion.

[WarriorFish]

I liked HBs enough already, but this does seem to give them a more specialised purpose compared to the heavier calibre anti-personnel role of yore. With D2 you're not going to be targeting basic infantry as much, but perhaps the light anti-tank role makes up for that with the enhanced Damage. That said, it's not like CSM are struggling for weapons to remove chaff, bolters and the like should do enough here especially with enhanced range.

 

As Jugs said it depends on the bigger picture like the price but if this isn't a major change I can see plenty of use. Perhaps as one of the more common "anti-MEQ" weapons? Given there's a big shake up clearly on the cards it's difficult to gauge currently as we don't know if other weapons will change also, hopefully we can see soon

[Maschinenpriester]

I think every weapon has a special optimum target here. HB is good against Marines and chain cannons are good against stuff like necrons or sisters. And horde stuff of course.

[Captain Incompetence]

I'm definitely interested to see what they're going to be doing to a bunch of weapon stats now. However, I think we'll have to wait for our own CSM codex til we get updated stats on a bunch of those. I'm thinking Reaper Chaincannon, but also Reaper Autocannon. Heavy4 ap-1 d1 seems extremely lackluster compared to the new H-bolter, so I'm assuming it'll also get a change eventually.

I personally do like that they made the H-Bolter more TAAC, as it's such an iconic 40K weapon. The Reaper Chaincannon might stay the same as right now to give it a more specific battlefield role of horde-clearing compared to the H-Bolter being more all-round. I think that sort of variety in specialization is a good thing for the game as a whole.

[Khornestar]

Yeah that's a great point. For at least 3 editions a common question of mine was "why would I ever take a heavy bolter?" and now there will be an answer, potentially. It's encouraging, if nothing else.

[Llagos_Tyrant]

It's nice to see the Heavy Bolter get a bit more punch - but it makes me wonder what's in store for the Autocannon. If the Heavy Bolter is still 3 shots, it's shorter range is offst now that it's D2 at those shots.

 

Is the Autocannon still as attractive if it's going to be a longer range and higher strength, but fewer shots than a Heavy Bolter with the same damage? It might give the unit more survivability with the range, but boards are smaller now - it's easy for opponents to move to where they can fire back.

 

I almost want to hold off on building my new box of Havocs just to see what the weapon statlines are ... I'll probably still give them Autocannons just because it feels right, and I already have 4 Havocs with Heavy Bolters.

[Kain Mor]

Unless they are renaming the weapon on the Invictor Warsuit to a heavy Bolter pistol or some such it’s entirely possible the heavy Bolter is becoming heavy 1.

[Khornestar]

Certainly possible, but the article describes "a hail of armour-piercing, mass-reactive shells the size of tin cans" so I'm not sure how likely that is. Obviously that's just a line of text, but it would be a pretty dumb mischaracterization of the weapon to make it 1 shot. Still, the Invictor's formerly-heavy-bolter is only 1 shot, so who knows?

Edited August 13, 2020 by Juggernut

[Jings]

Unless they are renaming the weapon on the Invictor Warsuit to a heavy Bolter pistol or some such it’s entirely possible the heavy Bolter is becoming heavy 1.

 

I'll eat my hat if that happens. I think it's quite clear that the Invictor's either suffered a typo or it's Heavy Bolter Pistol is becoming a Heavy Bolter Pistol. Heavy Bolters getting nerfed to Heavy 1 is so unlikely that I don't understand why people keep bringing it up at this point. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Jings

[Brom MKIV]

I don't see why I would take the new HB over a RCC?

[Marshal Loss]

For heavy bolters, the answer will depend on what happens to autocannons. But I'm really excited to see HBs potentially be a worthy choice. Our Havocs with HBs look awesome.

 

Can't see heavy bolters being made 1 shot as well. That would be ridiculous.

 

The maths:

 

HB with 3 shots vs 2W MEQs: 1.333 dmg @ 36" range. RCC @ 24": 1.778 dmg.

 

So as it currently stands the RCC would maintain an advantage albeit with a far shorter range (pending whatever points cost both end up being).

Edited August 13, 2020 by Marshal Loss

[Llagos_Tyrant]

For heavy bolters, the answer will depend on what happens to autocannons. But I'm really excited to see HBs potentially be a worthy choice. Our Havocs with HBs look awesome.

 

Can't see heavy bolters being made 1 shot as well. That would be ridiculous.

 

The maths:

 

HB with 3 shots vs 2W MEQs: 1.333 dmg @ 36" range. RCC @ 24": 1.778 dmg.

 

So as it currently stands the RCC would maintain an advantage albeit with a far shorter range (pending whatever points cost both end up being).

 

Considering my plan was to rush RCCs in a squad or two in a Rhino up the board and the unleash them in my opponents face, I'm pleased to hear they're better when they're in range - the problem of course is getting them there, and then staying alive. That, and flavour, has made my Iron Warriors lean further to ACs out of range where the enemy can't hit back.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Llagos_Tyrant