Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

The New Anti-Personnel Question


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1
Iron Father Ferrum

Iron Father Ferrum

    ++ INTERFECTOR PRODITORES ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 6,556 posts
  • Location:NoVA
  • Faction: Iron Hands, Alpha Legion
So heavy bolters are going to D2 according to the WarCom article. Assuming they will suffer a small point increase in response, does this make them more attractive than chaincannons?

For non-Astartes targets, the chaincannons' higher rate of fire is an obvious benefit, but the nigh-ubiquity of Astartes makes the heavy bolter more inviting as a TAAC weapon.

Obviously we'll need to see point changes before we carve our final analyses in stone, but I'm curious about everyone's knee-jerk reactions.
  • Juggernut likes this
Posted Image

+Corruption of Purpose: Heretic Astartes+
+The Blade Unsheathed: Asuryani+






+AO+ Currently seeking a PhotoShopper to make me a Chaos banner for this signature. +OA+


#2
Juggernut

Juggernut

    ++ MEDICAE MONTANEA ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 6,723 posts
  • Location:Big Sky Country
  • Faction: All Things Khornate

I love heavy bolters, at least conceptually. This is a most welcome buff. Hopefully it's still 3 shots. Quad Heavy Bolters (assuming they'll still exist) are going to be very powerful, if pointed in a sane fashion.


Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


#3
WarriorFish

WarriorFish

    ++ PRÆFECT SOCIORUM ++

  • +++ADMINISTRATUM+++
  • 22,703 posts
  • Location:Blighty
  • Faction: Hunter Legion

I liked HBs enough already, but this does seem to give them a more specialised purpose compared to the heavier calibre anti-personnel role of yore. With D2 you're not going to be targeting basic infantry as much, but perhaps the light anti-tank role makes up for that with the enhanced Damage. That said, it's not like CSM are struggling for weapons to remove chaff, bolters and the like should do enough here especially with enhanced range.

 

As Jugs said it depends on the bigger picture like the price but if this isn't a major change I can see plenty of use. Perhaps as one of the more common "anti-MEQ" weapons? Given there's a big shake up clearly on the cards it's difficult to gauge currently as we don't know if other weapons will change also, hopefully we can see soon smile.png


gallery_48988_15465_8206.pnggallery_30308_9518_1551.pnggallery_30308_3239_3185.pnggallery_30308_9518_17558.pnggallery_30308_3239_193.pnggallery_30308_3239_17729.png
Painting Oaths Completed:
gallery_30308_3239_28.gifgallery_30308_3239_28.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_84.gifgallery_30308_3239_42.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_42.gifgallery_30308_3239_28.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_42.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gif
gallery_30308_3239_42.gifgallery_30308_3239_102.gifgallery_30308_3239_42.gif
In the grim predictability of online 40k, there can be only Sun Tzu quotes

SM Ironclad | IG Stormies | =][= Stormies | AM Armigers

CSM Terminators | TSons Rubrics | Daemons Daemonettes

DE Warriors | Tyranids Genestealers


#4
Maschinenpriester

Maschinenpriester

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 370 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction: Emperor's Children
I think every weapon has a special optimum target here. HB is good against Marines and chain cannons are good against stuff like necrons or sisters. And horde stuff of course.

#5
Captain Incompetence

Captain Incompetence

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 100 posts
  • Faction: Night Lords, Imperial Guard

I'm definitely interested to see what they're going to be doing to a bunch of weapon stats now. However, I think we'll have to wait for our own CSM codex til we get updated stats on a bunch of those. I'm thinking Reaper Chaincannon, but also Reaper Autocannon. Heavy4 ap-1 d1 seems extremely lackluster compared to the new H-bolter, so I'm assuming it'll also get a change eventually.

I personally do like that they made the H-Bolter more TAAC, as it's such an iconic 40K weapon. The Reaper Chaincannon might stay the same as right now to give it a more specific battlefield role of horde-clearing compared to the H-Bolter being more all-round. I think that sort of variety in specialization is a good thing for the game as a whole.



#6
Juggernut

Juggernut

    ++ MEDICAE MONTANEA ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 6,723 posts
  • Location:Big Sky Country
  • Faction: All Things Khornate

Yeah that's a great point. For at least 3 editions a common question of mine was "why would I ever take a heavy bolter?" and now there will be an answer, potentially. It's encouraging, if nothing else.


Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


#7
Llagos_Tyrant

Llagos_Tyrant

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 495 posts
  • Location:Ottawa, CAN
  • Faction: Iron Warriors

It's nice to see the Heavy Bolter get a bit more punch - but it makes me wonder what's in store for the Autocannon. If the Heavy Bolter is still 3 shots, it's shorter range is offst now that it's D2 at those shots.

 

Is the Autocannon still as attractive if it's going to be a longer range and higher strength, but fewer shots than a Heavy Bolter with the same damage? It might give the unit more survivability with the range, but boards are smaller now - it's easy for opponents to move to where they can fire back.

 

I almost want to hold off on building my new box of Havocs just to see what the weapon statlines are ... I'll probably still give them Autocannons just because it feels right, and I already have 4 Havocs with Heavy Bolters.


gallery_48988_15808_1006.pnggallery_48988_16308_20607.pnggallery_48988_15094_7480.pnggallery_48988_15094_6142.png

The Roar Before Silence Fell: WIP Thread

Iron Warriors//VIIth Grand Battalion: Liber Index

Hobby on Instagram at @GrimDarkHobby


#8
Kain Mor

Kain Mor

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 424 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO
  • Faction: Astra Militarum, Night Lords
Unless they are renaming the weapon on the Invictor Warsuit to a heavy Bolter pistol or some such it’s entirely possible the heavy Bolter is becoming heavy 1.

#9
Juggernut

Juggernut

    ++ MEDICAE MONTANEA ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 6,723 posts
  • Location:Big Sky Country
  • Faction: All Things Khornate

Certainly possible, but the article describes "a hail of armour-piercing, mass-reactive shells the size of tin cans" so I'm not sure how likely that is. Obviously that's just a line of text, but it would be a pretty dumb mischaracterization of the weapon to make it 1 shot. Still, the Invictor's formerly-heavy-bolter is only 1 shot, so who knows?


Edited by Juggernut, 13 August 2020 - 06:26 PM.

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


#10
Jings

Jings

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 221 posts

Unless they are renaming the weapon on the Invictor Warsuit to a heavy Bolter pistol or some such it’s entirely possible the heavy Bolter is becoming heavy 1.

 

I'll eat my hat if that happens. I think it's quite clear that the Invictor's either suffered a typo or it's Heavy Bolter Pistol is becoming a Heavy Bolter Pistol. Heavy Bolters getting nerfed to Heavy 1 is so unlikely that I don't understand why people keep bringing it up at this point. 


Edited by Jings, 13 August 2020 - 06:45 PM.


#11
Brom MKIV

Brom MKIV

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,685 posts
  • Faction: XX Legion XX
I don't see why I would take the new HB over a RCC?

#12
Marshal Loss

Marshal Loss

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 4,827 posts
  • Location:New York
  • Faction: Emperor's Children

For heavy bolters, the answer will depend on what happens to autocannons. But I'm really excited to see HBs potentially be a worthy choice. Our Havocs with HBs look awesome.

 

Can't see heavy bolters being made 1 shot as well. That would be ridiculous.

 

The maths:

 

HB with 3 shots vs 2W MEQs: 1.333 dmg @ 36" range. RCC @ 24": 1.778 dmg.

 

So as it currently stands the RCC would maintain an advantage albeit with a far shorter range (pending whatever points cost both end up being).


Edited by Marshal Loss, 13 August 2020 - 08:42 PM.

rCsoqE7.png

Emperor's Children 22ᶮᵈ Millennial

Sons of Horus 29th Company


#13
Llagos_Tyrant

Llagos_Tyrant

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 495 posts
  • Location:Ottawa, CAN
  • Faction: Iron Warriors

For heavy bolters, the answer will depend on what happens to autocannons. But I'm really excited to see HBs potentially be a worthy choice. Our Havocs with HBs look awesome.

 

Can't see heavy bolters being made 1 shot as well. That would be ridiculous.

 

The maths:

 

HB with 3 shots vs 2W MEQs: 1.333 dmg @ 36" range. RCC @ 24": 1.778 dmg.

 

So as it currently stands the RCC would maintain an advantage albeit with a far shorter range (pending whatever points cost both end up being).

 

Considering my plan was to rush RCCs in a squad or two in a Rhino up the board and the unleash them in my opponents face, I'm pleased to hear they're better when they're in range - the problem of course is getting them there, and then staying alive. That, and flavour, has made my Iron Warriors lean further to ACs out of range where the enemy can't hit back.


Edited by Llagos_Tyrant, 13 August 2020 - 08:55 PM.

gallery_48988_15808_1006.pnggallery_48988_16308_20607.pnggallery_48988_15094_7480.pnggallery_48988_15094_6142.png

The Roar Before Silence Fell: WIP Thread

Iron Warriors//VIIth Grand Battalion: Liber Index

Hobby on Instagram at @GrimDarkHobby





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users