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Space Marines - leaks and datasheets (updated)


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#1001
Dark Shepherd

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Eradicators IMO work best coming in from reserves so theyd take up a lot of CP and wouldnt be great for centreboard control/objectives. And only one unit could overwatch so there are counters.

Such a list would be negative craic to play against for sure though, and well deserving of the inevitable points hike

#1002
Mandragola

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Eradicators remain pretty vulnerable to enemy shooting. They're a serious glass cannon unit. Also, there are other good heavy support options and you only get two slots in a battalion... though adding a spearhead or patrol might be an option.

 

I think I'll definitely run a unit of 6 Eradicators though. Even if they do get slightly nerfed I think they'll be pretty serious. However, I think that the Leviathan remains a good pick (especially for my Fists) so long as it retains something like its current stats. It's a really good unit to put the "all doctrines" strat onto. I don't expect it'll come out of the FW index unchanged though, so we'll have to see what we end up with.

 

Anyway, one good thing about marines is the enormous amount of redundancy in our codex. If your favourite unit just got nerfed the chances are that something else got buffed. Your army still works, but you wallet might sting for a while.


C+C always welcome on my Titanic Plog. Should really be painting Crimson Fists.

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#1003
Borgias

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Eradicators remain pretty vulnerable to enemy shooting. They're a serious glass cannon unit.

Excuse, could you please make a comparison between Eradicators and Fire Dragon, just to check who is a serious glass cannon?


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#1004
Karhedron

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Eradicators remain pretty vulnerable to enemy shooting. They're a serious glass cannon unit.

Excuse, could you please make a comparison between Eradicators and Fire Dragon, just to check who is a serious glass cannon?


For units that are so close in points and role, the differences in capability and durability are either hilarious or tragic (depending on your point of view).
Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#1005
Marshal Valkenhayn

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T5 3 wounds with a 3+ save is not exactly fragile. Stack on top of that the support they have available, such as bringing models back with apothicaries, -1 to hit from some chapters, Invulns from various sources, FNP from various sources, the ability to make a unit untargetable, the ability to put them inside a Repulser to carry them up the field turn 1, Transhuman, hiding them behind obscuring...

 

I mean, if you want to play them with X and Y defensive buffs stacked on, you can. Marines have every flavor, just pick your style.



#1006
Ishagu

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I'm running 5 Eradicators in a Repulsor. I'll use them as a high punch unit and get them delivered mid board. No interest in spamming any more than that.

Funny enough Sisters of Battle have the scariest Melta squads now, arguably, due to a few amazing rules they can be bolstered with in the right situation.

-~Ishagu~-


#1007
Mandragola

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Fair enough, I can't really argue with that. 6 Eradicators with 2 multimeltas cost the same as a Gladiator Valiant. 18 wounds on 6 bodies that can be brought back by an Apothecary won't be removed all that easily. Between stuff like Psychic fortress, Transhuman and the gravis strat for better saves against D1 guns, people will have to work to make them die. I guess there's even a chance my Repulsors might make it onto the battlefield, to protect these guys.


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C+C always welcome on my Titanic Plog. Should really be painting Crimson Fists.

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#1008
Ishagu

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Do any of you guys think that 6 Bladeguard on foot are viable?

I'm thinking up lists, and I literally can't afford a transport for them lol.

Basically I'm torn between 5 Flamer Aggressors, 5 Regular Aggressors or 5/6 Bladeguard Vets as a unit that provides some useful cc utitly and durability.

-~Ishagu~-


#1009
PeteySödes

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Do any of you guys think that 6 Bladeguard on foot are viable?

I'm thinking up lists, and I literally can't afford a transport for them lol.

Basically I'm torn between 5 Flamer Aggressors, 5 Regular Aggressors or 5/6 Bladeguard Vets as a unit that provides some useful cc utitly and durability.

 

With how quick those midfield obj get contested i think theres an argument for them. The durability would draw some heat and id be shocked if they failed to make it most times.


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#1010
Ishagu

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That's what I'm thinking, and obviously I can divert attention with other threats.

The way Transhuman phisiology works you'd be better off taking 5 instead of 6 to save CP.

Are they more useful than 5 Aggressors, that's the question. Keep in mind I'll be running Tiggy who can shroud a unit and grant it a 5++ on top.

-~Ishagu~-


#1011
Dark Shepherd

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BGV especially in larger unit sizes are going to be a nightmare to shift from objectives and awesome in cc

Speaking of cc...it would take 5 Eradicators on the charge to kill ONE intercessor, so theyll be really vulnerable to being tagged let alone tarpitted in close combat

#1012
Rik Lightstar

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That's what I'm thinking, and obviously I can divert attention with other threats.

The way Transhuman phisiology works you'd be better off taking 5 instead of 6 to save CP.

Are they more useful than 5 Aggressors, that's the question. Keep in mind I'll be running Tiggy who can shroud a unit and grant it a 5++ on top.


Take 6,dont use Transhuman Physiology until the first one has died, they can still soak LOADS of fire. 35 pts is worth the CP you save.

Rik

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#1013
Captain Idaho

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Did anyone see the Company Veterans datasheet?

Been thinking of using Invictarus Suzerain Squad as Company Veterans, with Power Axes, Combat shields and Bolt Pistols etc. I believe I can take those weapons but who knows eh?
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#1014
Medicinal Carrots

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Only DA Company Vets can take combat shields. Everyone else only gets the option for Storm Shields.

 

As for weapons, I would recommend lightning claws if you can. With +1 attack per claw, they outperform all other D1 weapons against all targets.

 

Also, Vanguard Vets have the same melee weapon options and costs, but are 1 point less per model. Company Vets have the bodyguard rule, the take up no slot shenanigans, the ability to go under 5 man, and access to better guns. If you want a 5+ man squad, aren't worried about snipers for nearby characters, have enough slots, and are going melee only, Vanguard are the better choice.


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#1015
UtariOnzo

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Can we cool off a little with the "Yeah buts" and the "But x are overpowered too's", along with the return sniping? Something patently being off the mark for balance isn't justified by other things being patently off the mark.

 

Inner Circle is pretty darn strong, and I agree slapped onto our characters in addition to strictly superior TH/SS (Knights) termies makes it a little silly. I can see it dialled back at some point, and I say this as one of the beneficiaries, being a long time DA player. Keeping the give some/take some aspect regarding falling back restrictions in exchange for maybe only being wounded at max on a 3+ might be better to reflect the old stubbornness aspect of DA/Deathwing and how they'll push themselves to extreme levels to hold the line, keeping the rule impactful and flavourful. But 4+ it is, and thems the apples.

 

I find the concept of having a given chapter/faction 'having their time in the sun' a very silly, if not cynical, way to balance things. There's accidently creating broken or stupidly powerful set ups via simple unforseen consequences, then there's this and the Iron Hands treatment that is far too clearly power creep. Hey ho, I'll enjoy it while it lasts


Edited by UtariOnzo, 06 October 2020 - 07:46 PM.

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#1016
Captain Idaho

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Only DA Company Vets can take combat shields. Everyone else only gets the option for Storm Shields.
 
As for weapons, I would recommend lightning claws if you can. With +1 attack per claw, they outperform all other D1 weapons against all targets.
 
Also, Vanguard Vets have the same melee weapon options and costs, but are 1 point less per model. Company Vets have the bodyguard rule, the take up no slot shenanigans, the ability to go under 5 man, and access to better guns. If you want a 5+ man squad, aren't worried about snipers for nearby characters, have enough slots, and are going melee only, Vanguard are the better choice.


It's a matter of WYSIWYG. I need the Combat Shields for the models to be usable.
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#1017
Rik Lightstar

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Just how often do people expect they'll want, or even need, to fall back with Deathwing Knights?

Even "tar pit" style units aren't going to be around long in combat with these guys. If you've got any Ravenwing Bikes in your list too you'll be able clear them off easily too.

Rik

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#1018
Medicinal Carrots

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Gotcha. I think the only non-DA that can take combat shields are Company Champions and Assault Marine sergeants. Champions are sword only, but you could use them as counts as Assault sarges.


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#1019
Borgias

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Just how often do people expect they'll want, or even need, to fall back with Deathwing Knights?

Rik

Sure, but what about our other characters with Inner Circle, like our libby, chaplain?



#1020
Medicinal Carrots

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Minor change I just noticed: Flakk and Hellfire strats are now specifically 1 shot for the phase, which I think removes the ability to double up on either of them with a Cherub.



#1021
CCE1981

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Do any of you guys think that 6 Bladeguard on foot are viable?

I'm thinking up lists, and I literally can't afford a transport for them lol.

Basically I'm torn between 5 Flamer Aggressors, 5 Regular Aggressors or 5/6 Bladeguard Vets as a unit that provides some useful cc utitly and durability.


I haven’t pointed stuff out but right now I am thinking 3x Impulsors with a 5-man unit of Bladeguard, and 2x 5-man Veteran Assault Intercessors, a Captain with the Warlord trait to make infantry around him objective secured, a Chapter Ancient, possibly bladeguard ancient, to make everything double objective secured, and a Librarian with Psychic Fortress, with a couple on Contemptor Dreadnoughts with Multimelta and Dreadfist. Midline would be Intercessors, backline Heavy Intercessors.
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#1022
Doghouse

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Did anyone see the Company Veterans datasheet?

Been thinking of using Invictarus Suzerain Squad as Company Veterans, with Power Axes, Combat shields and Bolt Pistols etc. I believe I can take those weapons but who knows eh?

I'm concidering legion breachers for those.


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#1023
ShinyRhino

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My biggest gripe is the lack of Digital Codex. Sorry GW, your app ain't cutting the mustard so stop trying. Battlescribe covered that angle better than you try to and unless you want to further nail in coffin your app with a C&D on battlescribe then just stop and give us E-Pubs and the like again. I like having all the codices on my tablet, lighter and easy to read and 100% less chance of stains on a book.

I honestly think it’s to stop the rampant piracy that goes on with the digital editions if they can stop that to any degree I’m sure it will save them way more money in the long run

also while I agree the app still isn’t great hopefully in a couple of months it would have improved it’s already great for checking data sheets etc

Yeah, there were secret stashes of all the digital content hidden online, you just needed to know the right people. Great for reference and curiosity, but felt quite dirty to replace a book with it.
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#1024
Master Sheol

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The only thing i would like to know is on what basse are now scouts, 25mm, 28mm, 32mm?
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#1025
Gederas

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The only thing i would like to know is on what basse are now scouts, 25mm, 28mm, 32mm?

Still 25mm






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