Lack of shady corporation in fluff?

[Plague _Lord]

So, many dark sci-fi franchises have a huge corporation doing shady stuff that is not allways in humanities best inerests (i.e. The Weyland-Yutani corporation in Alien). Do you feel we are missing something like that in 40k?

 

I always like the idea of a huge corporation that is essential to imperial industry/trade but often comes into conflict with the authorities and has it's own Agendas. On the battlefied I would imagine something akin to a militarum tempestus force that uses xenos tech and possibly xenos mercs (Zoats? Sslyth?).

 

In the fluff I would see them as doing shady off-books stuff like resaerch tyranid organisms like the inquisitorial base in Imperial Armour, or trade with tau, try and find ctan shards and so on.

 

Thoughts?

[Lysimachus]

I think you just described the AdMech?

[Plague _Lord]

I think you just described the AdMech?

 

But the admech doesn't give off this "not working in humanity's best interest" type of vibe, nor do they work as a corporation. They are a 100% imperial faction, despite their beginnings, and a branch of the government.

Well, ok Cawl is a xeno loving heretic but I think most of the admech are loyal.

[TheMawr]

Its not so much that its lacking in the setting.. but rather the way GWs narrative approach is done that ignores those.
40k strangely enough suffers from being a small scope setting because GW focuses on how big it is... and we are omniscient observers.

As said above -some- Admech forgeworlds fulfill the evil corporation role.. so do/could alot of the Genestealer cults, some Haemonculi covens and/or Kabals could/should have evil corporation elements as well.. when you make a logical deduction of how they operate behind the omniscient knowledge of their atrocities and warfare we have.. but not the in universe people influenced by and trading with them.

I think its a pity.. especially in the case of Genestealer cults.. an evil mining corporation with a hidden agenda (perhaps even the one cult that tries to control the tyranids instead of vice versa.) could give them a thing all other armies got-> named characters. it also allows them to get a bit more narrative potential.

Edited September 10, 2020 by TheMawr

[Robbienw]

No.  Its just not a 40k Imperial thing to have a big corporation interfering in stuff, it wouldn't sit right and would just feel like a transplanted american sci-fi.

 

Elements of the Inquisition and the Adeptus Mechanicus cover this kind of shady stuff.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Robbienw

[Kastor Krieg]

No.  Its just not a 40k Imperial thing to have a big corporation interfering in stuff, it wouldn't sit right and would just feel like a transplanted american sci-fi.

Have you ever read any Necromunda stuff and do you know anything about Spire Companies or the Hive Guilds?

[Plague _Lord]

Its not so much that its lacking in the setting.. but rather the way GWs narrative approach is done that ignores those.

40k strangely enough suffers from being a small scope setting because GW focuses on how big it is... and we are omniscient observers.

 

As said above -some- Admech forgeworlds fulfill the evil corporation role.. so do/could alot of the Genestealer cults, some Haemonculi covens and/or Kabals could/should have evil corporation elements as well.. when you make a logical deduction of how they operate behind the omniscient knowledge of their atrocities and warfare we have.. but not the in universe people influenced by and trading with them.

 

I think its a pity.. especially in the case of Genestealer cults.. an evil mining corporation with a hidden agenda (perhaps even the one cult that tries to control the tyranids instead of vice versa.) could give them a thing all other armies got-> named characters. it also allows them to get a bit more narrative potential.

 

 

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. A genestealer cult that gained selfawareness of their impending doom and moves from planet to planet under the guise of an imperial corporation would be really good.

[Brother Casman]

While I could possibly see a mega-corp existing (and doing shady stuff) on a given Hive World, I can't really see them existing as a major background player in the Imperium as a whole. Despite the fact that 40k is set in the far-future, the setting feels more medieval to me - the main power brokers are people like Lords (who've carefully built up a power base/inherited one) or the Church. Of course, given the size of the Imperium, there's probably some narrative space for EvilMegaCorp to exist, I just think you'll need to zoom into an individual planet to see it.

[Mazer Rackham]

Bill King has a good go at this in his novel Wolfblade.

 

He does a great show of the politicking and such between the Navigator Houses, and it's mostly set on Terra.  That might fit your bill (no pun intended).

 

MR.

[apologist]

The broad strokes of 40k are rooted in the mediaeval Dark Ages, whereas sinister corporations are a relatively modern 'clean sci-fi' trope. As a result, 40k owes a lot of its top-level imagery to Classical and Biblical sources, rather than modern ones.

 

Of course, 40k being as all-encompassing as it is, there's plenty of space for sinister Illuminati-type groups at a smaller scale – we've got a couple of 'canon' ones in the Star Child; the sector-spanning cabal of villains in the Eisenhorn books; and the literal capital-C Cabal of xenos in Legion et al. At a smaller scale still, more familiar Weyland-Yutani-like corporations probably exist on many, if not most, civilised worlds.

 

a huge corporation that is essential to imperial industry/trade but often comes into conflict with the authorities and has it's own Agenda

This could quite happily describe an offshoot of the Ministorum, Administratum or Munitorum – precisely because they're so monolithic, they lend themselves well to fracturing at smaller scales; and that'd be a really interesting path to pursue.

 

We don't see much of the Administratum, and they're ripe for development into something as rich as the Inquisition or Ecclesiarchy.

[Robbienw]

 

No.  Its just not a 40k Imperial thing to have a big corporation interfering in stuff, it wouldn't sit right and would just feel like a transplanted american sci-fi.

Have you ever read any Necromunda stuff and do you know anything about Spire Companies or the Hive Guilds?

 

 

Completely different thing.  The OP and I are both talking about in a 40k imperium wide context.

[Fajita Fan]

So, many dark sci-fi franchises have a huge corporation doing shady stuff that is not allways in humanities best inerests (i.e. The Weyland-Yutani corporation in Alien). Do you feel we are missing something like that in 40k?

 

I always like the idea of a huge corporation that is essential to imperial industry/trade but often comes into conflict with the authorities and has it's own Agendas. On the battlefied I would imagine something akin to a militarum tempestus force that uses xenos tech and possibly xenos mercs (Zoats? Sslyth?).

 

In the fluff I would see them as doing shady off-books stuff like resaerch tyranid organisms like the inquisitorial base in Imperial Armour, or trade with tau, try and find ctan shards and so on.

 

Thoughts?

Funny you should mention Weyland-Yutani because my genestealer cult happens to be based on a planet being mined by the Weyland-Yutani Mining Guild!  The stencils I made for my Gaslands shipping containers will work just fine on my 40k shipping containers that I need to get sprayed when it stops raining.  These containers are less than 5" long and only 1.5" tall so they will cargo pods rather than containers as scatter terrain for 40k games, they look like real 40' shipping containers next to Hot Wheels for Gaslands.

 

 

I love this kind of fluff and I think there's absolutely over-the-top crazy corporations in 40k looking to exploit everyone around them to gain power.  I'd love to see more of this in fiction, members of powerful guilds are usually just side characters in the typical Imperial vs Chaos vs Xenos formula story.  Dan Abnett would probably do a great job layering a story like that as he's good at weaving plots that build to explosive action.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Fajita Fan

[chapter master 454]

The main focal characters of any planet tend towards planetary governors, lead military officials or someone who is in a reasonably high ranking spot making their play for top dog. Really each planet could be seen as a "company" where planetary governor is more like being a CEO, for some they want to do it for the good of the imperium however a good number of them want it just to live a fat rich life and dismiss the Imperium as unnecessary but see the tithes as the means to keep imperial eyes off them so thus focus on just keeping the tithes paid and living the high life.

 

By all means that exact thing could lead to an evil mega-corp idea, where the governor sets up a system of oppression that not only ensures he keeps the masses in line but also brutally ensures tithes are paid. In our standard literature, this would be where a noble hero steps up to the plate and works his way through trials, suffering and set-backs to ultimately win the day, get the girl and everyone was happy. But this is 40k, that mega-corp is encouraged by the imperium because it keeps the tithes coming in which in turn HELPS keep other planets safe from chaos, xenos and other minor issues and that noble hero is actually a genestealer cult agent or chaos insurgent (heck, maybe both happen at the same time) and will ultimately be the reason the planet becomes a wasteland, devoid of all life after a series of cyclonic torpedos, virus bombs and other nasty munitions are used on it for turning from the Emperor's light.

 

Morality in 40k is, what barbossa would call, more like guidelines than rules. Those Guidelines however are regularly used as doormats, toilet paper and sometimes by slannesh cult clean-up crews. I have read a story where the Chaos insurgents are shown to be "the good guys" because they ultimately overthrow a corrupt eccleisarch priest (and corrupt not by chaos or genestealer cult, he was corrupted by greed and nothing else).

 

Welcome to 40k, it wouldn't be out of place to have these mega-corps but they will likely just be the setting for a planet, never a mover and shaker. However the closest you can get is the Admech who are sketch as all get out with how they do business. Basically, be sure to not be in front of any of their guns or you may suffer from "malfunctioning targeting routines".

[Scribe]

 

 

 

 

No. Its just not a 40k Imperial thing to have a big corporation interfering in stuff, it wouldn't sit right and would just feel like a transplanted american sci-fi.

Have you ever read any Necromunda stuff and do you know anything about Spire Companies or the Hive Guilds?

Completely different thing. The OP and I are both talking about in a 40k imperium wide context.

Yeah, as far as I'm aware, no Corporate, non-Imperial Government, entity exists that spans the Galaxy.

 

Hive or maybe even across multiple world's? Very possible.

 

Incandescent also imagine a powerful Rogue Trader house, could take on such a role/trope?

[Ishagu]

There will be all sorts of shady corporations or guilds that exist on various worlds. It's just a matter for the BL authors to flesh out.

[Triszin]

I think the tau might fall under this.

 

I.e Earth caste, you work for the greater good or get sent to a reeducation camp

[Xenith]

Cool idea. As has been mentioned already, 40k tends to focus on sector scale, or skirmish scale, with little in between. The closest you would maybe get is rogue traders allying with xenos, using xeno tech (like weyland yutani), or possibly the houses in Necromunda.

 

In BL fiction, planetary governers usually have a short lifespan, because they've been involved in some shady stuff. They dont really go into this, but why not have a corporation buy out the governer and make him stop sending the planets tithe to the imperium so they can make more profit, or something along those lines. 

[Zebulon]

Ah’merz-on Primus. Delivering goods, high explosive death and bumper profits for their shareholders... :tu:

[Grotsmasha]

If you want to go beyond a single system, a Rogue Trader could potentially have that kind of pull. There's a BL novel (I've forgotten the title) thaat explains that a Rogue Traders writ of Authorization comes directly from the Emperor himself from before the Crusade.

[Snazzy]

We need no alternative forms of nefarious bad guys when the Imperium has several departments of bad guys.

[Azekai]

'Evil' corporations already exist, they just aren't called that. Part of this is due to the fact that basically every organization in the Imperium is monstrous, so designating one group of exploitative jerks as evil kinda loses its punch when lobotomizing people into flesh-robots is considered normal.

Part of the issue is simply nomenclature. 'Corporation' evokes a certain neon-lit flavor a la Neuromancer or Blade Runner. Guilds, feudal houses and tech-cults hew a bit closer to the feel 40k is going for. The lines between government and corporation are often blurred as to become meaningless, especially at the higher echelons. The entire Administratum exploits worlds across the galaxy and enslaves untold billions, maybe trillions, all to feed a mind-bendingly huge military industrial complex.

That said, there are some smaller groups that act as profit-driven. The Badab War broke out in part due to trade disputes, and the concerns of the guilds of Karthago were so closely tied to the governing Satrapy that they were almost indistinguishable.

The Severan Dominate is an entire break-away faction of the Imperium started by a nutty Rogue Trader, a guy rich and powerful enough to control planets and make venture capitalists weep. 

And- just throwing this in there because someone said something about the Admech 'helping out.' The Cult of Sollex is a sub-faction of the Adeptus mechanicus that primarily deals in finely crafted energy weapons, and they are warmongering fanatics to boot.  Inhuman even by the cold standards of the Admech, they are unafraid of testing their weapons on the undeserving and they are easily cast as 'bad' guys. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Azekai

[Firedrake Cordova]

So, many dark sci-fi franchises have a huge corporation doing shady stuff that is not allways in humanities best inerests (i.e. The Weyland-Yutani corporation in Alien). Do you feel we are missing something like that in 40k?

Possibly, the galaxy-spanning scale of the Imperium of Man means that you're unlikely to see such a thing?  Locally, you'll see things like guilders, rogue planetary governors, inquisitors, rogue traders, etc, which could all qualify (on a smaller scale), but nothing on the large scale... (unless you want to get a bit meta and suggest that the Imperium of Man itself is such an entity )

Edited September 10, 2020 by Firedrake Cordova

[Bryan Blaire]

The thing with corporations is that they have to fit into the overall Imperial structure, which doesn't really let them have the span of control in-universe that an entity like Weyland-Utani has in the Aliens-verse - the scope of the two is very different and the mega-corp concept with exterior to the world influence is already filled space by Administratum and AdMech. So there would need to be some careful figuring on how exactly it would interact, what influence the AdMech would have on the technological aspect (would the AdMech Biologis be required to have control over the use of the biological tools, etc.) - I don't think you'd get quite as much story telling impact out of the "shady mega-corp" in the 40K universe without being very focused in, it certainly doesn't seem like it would be a galactic, or poss. even Sector player, maybe planetary, system, or even sub-sector is probably what you are looking at.

 

Edit: the aforementioned idea of a Rogue Trader being cast into a role like this is also a very good one, but even there, I think that once you get to a certain level, like impacting a Sector, other segments of the Imperium are going to come looking and if you are violating their rule, not sure even a Writ of Authorization will stop what's coming.

 

Now, an Inquisitor might be able to play a role like the head(s) of Weyland-Utani and get away with it for a while as well...

[WrathOfTheLion]

It could exist, but I think it wouldn't happen on a large scale. The inquisition and other parties wield significant power, and much of the manufacturing is handled by the mechanicum. The theocratic and autocratic style of government doesn't really mesh well in my mind with unrestrained corporations of galactic size. Maybe something on a sector level, the Imperium doesn't really care as long as it's compliant.

[Marshal Rohr]

There’s no such thing as a corporation in any modern sense in 40K because there was no such thing as a corporation in the dark and bronze ages. Merchant guilds, bankers, sure, but not in an meaningful analogous comparison to like Apple.