191 replies to this topic

[Brother Yroc]

I might have to lie down for a bit. The heavy intersecors might be my favorite GW models of all time.

Agreed! I did not expect to immediately be *so* enamored with any of the new reveals. I was kind of lukewarm on the Indomitus models, but these guys just work. Wow. Kudos to the design team.

[01RTB01]

These look fantastic but along with the news that they're not sharing a kit with the Eradicators, feels like the SM range is bloating out of control.

1 extra kit doesn't make that much difference surely? I'd argue it had already bloated out of control!

(Looking at the webstore space marines have 100 entries compared with 50/60 tops for some other races).

ATV
Turret
Chaplain bike
Captain variant
Bladeguard vets
Heavy intercessors
Exterminators
Assault Intercessors
New tank (gladiator)
New floaty speeder

All to be added in October 😳
Grateful I only really want to add the gladiator

Edited by 01RTB01, 12 September 2020 - 02:58 PM.

[Scribe]

These look fantastic but along with the news that they're not sharing a kit with the Eradicators, feels like the SM range is bloating out of control.

 

That train left station when they released Marines v2.

[Mandragola]

Well no sergeant options will prevent people from adopting them wholesale. Now that Assault Intercessors are getting Hammers and all the options especially.

I think you might be right. If I'm honest, I'm a bit unsure what I'd do with these guys. The problem is that normal intercessors are just so good, and much more effective in melee.

 

A unit with the not-stalkers might be good. But really, I could well end up using some other unit to hold backfield objectives. These guys just aren't all that shooty for what I expect them to cost (130-150 for 5). Normal Intercessors are already tanky rather than shooty and I think these guys will take that to extremes.

 

Their main strength might be having 3 wounds in a meta designed to deal with 2 wound targets. They're very substantially tougher than Intercessors, for this reason. 40mm bases will make them harder to hide, but that's probably ok.

 

Ultimately it's all going to come down to how much these guys cost. They could potentially just replace Intercessors as the best all-round troop choice, or they could end up not really being worth their cost.

[Redrandy93]

My backlog of Primaris is getting to be huge.    LOL     I like these guys!

 

 

[Juggernut]

Oooooh man, so much cooler than I thought, and I loved them based on a blurry picture. The flesh is so damn weak.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Whyyyy is it damage 3? Holy crud. That better be a bonkers expensive unit.

[ST.Lazarus]

Whyyyy is it damage 3? Holy crud. That better be a bonkers expensive unit.

 

It's one for every 5 and two shoots, so I really don't see the issue. A armiger helverin have 4d3 s7 D3 shoots for 175 poinst, or dark reapers. 

 

The strength of this unit is staying power not damage.

Edited by ST.Lazarus, 12 September 2020 - 03:43 PM.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Whyyyy is it damage 3? Holy crud. That better be a bonkers expensive unit.

It's one for every 5 and two shoots, so I really don't see the issue. A armiger helverin have 4d3 s7 D3 shoots for 175 poinst, or dark reapers.

The strength of this unit is staying power not damage.

Right. My fear is that the entire unit parked in cover has more staying power than most custodes units 15 t5 2+ save guys with really really strong guns with huge range that are troops and can hold objectives with ease makes this a very competitive unit.

[Mandragola]

 

 

Whyyyy is it damage 3? Holy crud. That better be a bonkers expensive unit.

It's one for every 5 and two shoots, so I really don't see the issue. A armiger helverin have 4d3 s7 D3 shoots for 175 poinst, or dark reapers.

The strength of this unit is staying power not damage.

Right. My fear is that the entire unit parked in cover has more staying power than most custodes units 15 t5 2+ save guys with really really strong guns with huge range that are troops and can hold objectives with ease makes this a very competitive unit.

 

Their guns just aren't all that strong. The 2 shot D3 heavy bolter is arguably worse than a 3 shot D2 heavy bolter - though the extra AP is nice. Other than that you have basically 4 more heavy bolter shots. The unit has 6 shots total, for something like 130-150 points.

 

So this isn't a bad unit, but it does one thing: hold objectives. They aren't much more shooty than standard intercessors.

[Captain Idaho]

I think this unit being Troops might make Intercessors feel a little obsolete. If you want a tough central unit to advance and put firepower on the opponent as you go, or hold an area, you'll go Heavy Intercessors.

If you want to deploy closer to the opponent you'll go Incursors or Infiltrators.

If you want to provide area denial to a part of the board you'll go Infiltrators.

If you want support weapons for your army whilst filling up on Troops, you'll go Tactical Marines.

If you want to assault, you'll go Assault Intercessors.

What role will the Intercessors provide?

[Boyadventurer]

The models look better than I expected, they look a lot more dynamic than previous Gravis stuff.

[01RTB01]

I don't understand where these tactically fit with marines. Surely there's nothing they add that marines didn't already have?

[Brother Yroc]

Random lore question: any educated speculation on whether these will be Battleline or Fire Support Squads in the company composition?

[MetalMammoth]

Is it just me, or they really are making too many units, with their weapons / equipment the only difference? Several of them could be consolidated into one, and if increasing the box size for the extra optional sprues is an issue, they could sell upgrade kits.

[The Unseen]

I think this unit being Troops might make Intercessors feel a little obsolete. If you want a tough central unit to advance and put firepower on the opponent as you go, or hold an area, you'll go Heavy Intercessors.

If you want to deploy closer to the opponent you'll go Incursors or Infiltrators.

If you want to provide area denial to a part of the board you'll go Infiltrators.

If you want support weapons for your army whilst filling up on Troops, you'll go Tactical Marines.

If you want to assault, you'll go Assault Intercessors.

What role will the Intercessors provide?

Intercessors will be substantially cheaper, and therefore much better in melee than heavy intercessors and overall more damaging per point spent. So if you want an aggressive shooty unit to push into the midfield the intercessors will be better, especially as the assault version of heavy intercessor isn't notably better than regular auto-bolters (+1 Str only). The rapid fire and heavy versions really REALLY want to stand still, for bolter discipline or to-hit penalty. They hold backfield objectives very very well, but aren't mobile enough to push forward much imo.

[Prot]

Well I have come full circle on these guys.

 

At first sight I was really excited about them, but they are in Gravis correct? So I have to assume they are foot based, or taking up 2 slots in a transport, meaning they are using reserve rules (CP) or walking, or you are taking an Impulsor which we know isn't a great vehicle right about now in 40K land.

 

The higher damage shots is okay, but I can see this trend of damage ramping up in the game. We've seen this trend for a while... you put more on the table, it dies faster. Honestly right now I'm not too hot on them. I like mobility in my lists.

[Gederas]

Well I have come full circle on these guys.

 

At first sight I was really excited about them, but they are in Gravis correct? So I have to assume they are foot based, or taking up 2 slots in a transport, meaning they are using reserve rules (CP) or walking, or you are taking an Impulsor which we know isn't a great vehicle right about now in 40K land.

 

The higher damage shots is okay, but I can see this trend of damage ramping up in the game. We've seen this trend for a while... you put more on the table, it dies faster. Honestly right now I'm not too hot on them. I like mobility in my lists.

Can't put Gravis in an Impulsor at all. So they're stuck as a 5-man only if they want to ride in a Repulsor.

 

 

Is it just me, or they really are making too many units, with their weapons / equipment the only difference? Several of them could be consolidated into one, and if increasing the box size for the extra optional sprues is an issue, they could sell upgrade kits.

Look at the army list for Space Marines in 30k. That's what Primaris are literally based on. It's actually completely clear as day now.

Edited by Gederas, 12 September 2020 - 04:30 PM.

[Dracos]

So it’s going to happen. Gravis Raven Guard .... and a touch of Phobos

[Lemondish]

Well I have come full circle on these guys.

At first sight I was really excited about them, but they are in Gravis correct? So I have to assume they are foot based, or taking up 2 slots in a transport, meaning they are using reserve rules (CP) or walking, or you are taking an Impulsor which we know isn't a great vehicle right about now in 40K land.

The higher damage shots is okay, but I can see this trend of damage ramping up in the game. We've seen this trend for a while... you put more on the table, it dies faster. Honestly right now I'm not too hot on them. I like mobility in my lists.

Two issues with this. First, the Impulsor is by far the best and most popular vehicle for Space Marines today. In case you made a mistake due to the unit names, the Impulsor is the 6 man transport that can carry a shield dome.

And two, being Gravis means they can't ride in it. They would need to ride in a Repulsor, and even then would need to be only 5.

I'm thinking a unit of 10, with two heavy weapon upgrades, combat squadded so the two upgrades sit in one unit in the backfield while the other 5 are deployed in the Repulsor for delivery on an objective.

[Bryan Blaire]

Random lore question: any educated speculation on whether these will be Battleline or Fire Support Squads in the company composition?

I would think that since they said they are Troops in the preview, and the models bear the Battleline designator (upward arrow), they are Battleline.

[StraightSilver]

I've only had 3 games of 9th so far and any evidence I have is anecdotal but my games so far have been:

My Ultras Vs Tyranids - Nids concede turn 4

My Ultras Vs SoB - SoB concede turn 3

My Ultras Vs Iron Hands - I concede turn 3

I don't play my Knights any more because I feel bad for my opponent and I'm starting to view my Marines in the same way.

Heavy Intercessors as troops seems a step too far for me.

I absolutely love the models but I hope other armies catch up soon after this Codex drops.

[Captain Idaho]

I think this unit being Troops might make Intercessors feel a little obsolete. If you want a tough central unit to advance and put firepower on the opponent as you go, or hold an area, you'll go Heavy Intercessors.
If you want to deploy closer to the opponent you'll go Incursors or Infiltrators.
If you want to provide area denial to a part of the board you'll go Infiltrators.
If you want support weapons for your army whilst filling up on Troops, you'll go Tactical Marines.
If you want to assault, you'll go Assault Intercessors.
What role will the Intercessors provide?

Intercessors will be substantially cheaper, and therefore much better in melee than heavy intercessors and overall more damaging per point spent. So if you want an aggressive shooty unit to push into the midfield the intercessors will be better, especially as the assault version of heavy intercessor isn't notably better than regular auto-bolters (+1 Str only). The rapid fire and heavy versions really REALLY want to stand still, for bolter discipline or to-hit penalty. They hold backfield objectives very very well, but aren't mobile enough to push forward much imo.

They'll be too expensive for hiding at the back holding objectives I reckon.

The thing is, if they are correctly pointed, they'll do everything Intercessors do but better whereas anything Intercessors do will be better suited to another unit.

[Ishagu]

These are the best looking Astartes Troop units ever, taking the title away from Intercessors.
Simply fantastic, and I'll be getting at MINIMUM one squad.

The rules are very impressive too, and I feel if an army is built around a core of these guys it could be a true elite power house, but I think that regular Intercessors might still be the better Troop unit as they are far more flexible when it comes to transports, melee, etc

[Minsc]

10 Heavy Intercessors with 2 Heavy guns will be what, ~280-300 pts?

They'll be very hard to shift of objectives, but their offensive output is pretty bad on a point-for-point basis compared to regular Intercessors, both in terms of shooting and melee punch. 

At a first glance they look "solid", but I think it's way too soon to call them "OP".