Core keyword for marines

[emperorpants]

Hey everyone! What do you all think this means? As of now we know that chaplains and librarians can only buff things with the core keyword. We also know that the new land speeders DONT have the core keyword so they seem to be unable to be buffed by said characters. Could it be that all vehicles lack the core keyword? Do you think captain and Lt auras will also require the core keyword? If this is the case, things will change drastically in list building. Thoughts? Edited September 14, 2020 by emperorpants

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Just out of curiosity, where does it come from that Chaplains and Librarians can only buff units with the CORE keyword? I don't doubt it or anything, it's just news to me, just wondering where it's from.

[emperorpants]

It's in the leaked pages for the codex that their powers apply to units with the core keyword.

[UnkyHamHam]

Wait, we have codex leaks!?

[emperorpants]

Wait, we have codex leaks!?

During the brief codex preview months back people paused and enhanced pages to see what was on them while the codex was flipped through. It's how we have the table of contents for the codex and how we know what units are in them. It's also how we know what the chapter tactics are.

[Bung]

The core keyword will probably mark units that are shared within the Supplements.

So you wont be able to buff a unit with BA and SM psychic powers, rites, etc.

Which makes sende as DA, BA, SW etc. always had their own Librarians, etc.

[UnkyHamHam]

 

Wait, we have codex leaks!?

During the brief codex preview months back people paused and enhanced pages to see what was on them while the codex was flipped through. It's how we have the table of contents for the codex and how we know what units are in them. It's also how we know what the chapter tactics are.

Gotcha. Yes I am aware of all that. I just didn't remember anyone discussing Chaplains at Librarians only being able to buff "Core" units. I definitely missed that.

[Khornestar]

Do we have any information other than the Core keyword itself, or is this all pure speculation?

 

Edit: I see the other information re: buffs now. Interesting.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Juggernut

[WrathOfTheLion]

I assume if true then it allows them then to scope further instead of just infantry/vehicles.

 

Much easier to add a keyword and say 'Litanies only affect Core units' than continuously set exceptions for units like servitors. Can just not give servitors a keyword.

[UnkyHamHam]

The core keyword will probably mark units that are shared within the Supplements.

So you wont be able to buff a unit with BA and SM psychic powers, rites, etc.

Which makes sende as DA, BA, SW etc. always had their own Librarians, etc.

That doesn't really hold up. The Chapter Keyword already fills this limitation. Edited September 14, 2020 by UnkyHamHam

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

The core keyword will probably mark units that are shared within the Supplements.

So you wont be able to buff a unit with BA and SM psychic powers, rites, etc.

Which makes sende as DA, BA, SW etc. always had their own Librarians, etc.

While it makes sense at first, what is your reasoning for the speeder not having it? It was stated in the reveal that all the new units would be available to DA, BA, SW etc. So it should have core also by your logic.

[Karhedron]

Having CORE units interact with aura buffs makes a lot of sense as it now controls who can be buffed by what.

 

My guess is that this is to prevent unintended overspill like the Iron Hands unkillable-wall-of-Dreanoughts lists. Infantry rallying around a character and being inspired to greater heights of martial prowess makes sense. A skimmer zooming past briefly gaining rerolls, not so much.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

If I were a betting man, I'd say Core probably means infantry, bikers, dreadnoughts, and tactical suits. But rather than trying to define everything ahead of time, they can just slap the Core keyword onto what they want and ship it out. It's a pretty good solution. Though, if all the buff shenanigans do get restricted, and Dreadnoughts still have access, Redemptors are going to become the new Thing. Them and a punchy infantry unit, probably Devistators.

[emperorpants]

It could also be a way to give certain characters more granularity for power. Perhaps a generic chapter master can only buff core units while a named one, like Shrike or Calgar etc., can buff all units. I could see that being the case too.

[Irbis]

Just look into silver templars thread right above this one, it has examples how buffs interact with Core units now.

[Mandragola]

Very interesting. I hadn't seen that auras might only affect a limited selection of stuff. I think that's a very good thing. It would be good to get away from armies that are blobbed around characters. If vehicles are unaffected by auras but maybe a bit cheaper to compensate, they'll want to take a different approach.

 

It's also a potential solution to having weird unintended synergy with FW stuff. Just don't make that stuff Core.

[emperorpants]

It really depends on what has the core keyword and what doesn't. If a landspeeder doesn't have it, it's reasonable to assume that other vehicles don't have it as well. Not being buffable by a chaplain or librarian isn't great but it isn't the end of the world. If captains and Lts. Only buff core units though, that could be a game changer, and lists may change quite drastically. Might see a bunch more infantry focused lists. Edited September 14, 2020 by emperorpants

[Bung]

 

The core keyword will probably mark units that are shared within the Supplements.

So you wont be able to buff a unit with BA and SM psychic powers, rites, etc.

Which makes sende as DA, BA, SW etc. always had their own Librarians, etc.

While it makes sense at first, what is your reasoning for the speeder not having it? It was stated in the reveal that all the new units would be available to DA, BA, SW etc. So it should have core also by your logic.

Maybe it wont be possible to buff vehicles with Librarians etc.

In the end its pure speculation based on 3. edition Codex and supplements.

[Dark Shepherd]

No buffs to flyers/airborne units seems fluffy and fair

[emperorpants]

Does anybody have the leaked pages from the codex for chaplain powers and librarian powers? It might be that certain powers are core only and others are for all units.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Less Buffy makes me sad panda face :(

[Dracos]

I'm a minimalist with characters anyway so I don't have a dog, so to speak, but I think it's slightly unfair to call it OP or not fluffy to have Captains and Lieutenants buffing even Flyers.

 

Real world units assist air to ground strikes for instance. I think it would actually be more "fluffy" if all Marine units operated like the Phobos/Captain and Lt. synergy ... the Tau markerlight system comes the closest to what I'm looking for and it should only work for ranges attacks. You could then limit the melee buffs to Chaplains.

 

Librarians? Given how sadly ineffective Librarians are already it's hard to swallow them getting any kind of nerf.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I don't think that's quite right though, as their proximity doesn't affect their coordination. Since planes typically have to move, they're really only situationally and temporally in proximity to the HQ.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I'm a minimalist with characters anyway so I don't have a dog, so to speak, but I think it's slightly unfair to call it OP or not fluffy to have Captains and Lieutenants buffing even Flyers.

 

Real world units assist air to ground strikes for instance. I think it would actually be more "fluffy" if all Marine units operated like the Phobos/Captain and Lt. synergy ... the Tau markerlight system comes the closest to what I'm looking for and it should only work for ranges attacks. You could then limit the melee buffs to Chaplains.

 

Librarians? Given how sadly ineffective Librarians are already it's hard to swallow them getting any kind of nerf.

 

While you're correct, I find it hilarious that the buff range of the various auras is essentially an infinitely high cylinder, only reaching out a few metres horizontally in-universe, but extending up to low orbit. I mean, how far up does it go? Do we have ships in orbit waiting to go into that sweet-spot directly above the Captain they'd just deployed via drop-pod before they launch torpedoes at the enemy battle-cruiser?

[UnkyHamHam]

 

 

I'm a minimalist with characters anyway so I don't have a dog, so to speak, but I think it's slightly unfair to call it OP or not fluffy to have Captains and Lieutenants buffing even Flyers.

 

Real world units assist air to ground strikes for instance. I think it would actually be more "fluffy" if all Marine units operated like the Phobos/Captain and Lt. synergy ... the Tau markerlight system comes the closest to what I'm looking for and it should only work for ranges attacks. You could then limit the melee buffs to Chaplains.

 

Librarians? Given how sadly ineffective Librarians are already it's hard to swallow them getting any kind of nerf.

While you're correct, I find it hilarious that the buff range of the various auras is essentially an infinitely high cylinder, only reaching out a few metres horizontally in-universe, but extending up to low orbit. I mean, how far up does it go? Do we have ships in orbit waiting to go into that sweet-spot directly above the Captain they'd just deployed via drop-pod before they launch torpedoes at the enemy battle-cruiser?

Maybe flyers should only benefit if they are in hover mode? That way it adds another tradeoff to having the -1 to hit.