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Necron Reanimation Protocols


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221 replies to this topic

#26
Captain Idaho

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Hmm. If this new mechanic only works for models downed in that attack, it is actually poor long term but good the short term.

Which I'm actually disappointed with. It's the feel I would have that I could get models back that died 2 turns earlier. Necrons felt like they could come back if left alone and especially elites units like Destroyers that may have lost a single model a turn etc.
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#27
MrSpoon

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Wild speculation time. Reanimation protocols will become equivalent to a FNP (from what I can glean from the WD article), and old style reanimation protocols will become a stratagem. If true, Necrons just got scary. 



#28
Captain Idaho

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Ah I hated it when then did that with 7th edition Necrons (6th perhaps). I don't care about the superior competitiveness, I just don't want my Necrons playing the same as Death Guard or Iron Hands.
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#29
Emicus

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Ah I hated it when then did that with 7th edition Necrons (6th perhaps). I don't care about the superior competitiveness, I just don't want my Necrons playing the same as Death Guard or Iron Hands.


That will be tough, since those are 3 for 3 when it comes to new codexes this year. Of course new dexes made for 9th will curb old ones!

#30
angrom

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I think a lot of people are under the impression that necrons are getting a FnP but that cannot be further from the truth.

If all what there is, is a reanimation roll after an enemy unit action (Shoot or melee) if the unit is not wiped with no chance to reanimated fallen model in subsequent turn / phases

with also the possibility to shut it down completely once all "nobles" are dead then in my opinion it is even worst than the current rules.

Combined with what seems to be single target reanimation bonus instead of aura and the limitation of requiring to be in range at beginning of turn to apply.

 

There is countless ways to use small firepower to soften a necron unit (some intercessors shots, bolts etc...) and then use what would be considered as a medium-high level threat

in current setup (some aggressors, few centurions, paladin bomb, terminator bomb, any ace stratagem from any army, hive guards, mutilators, heavy weapon squads with double tap the list goes on) to guarantee a one shot with no chance of reanimation whatsoever.

 

At least with the current rule if a unit is not destroyed in one turn you could reanimate and then mitigate the loss by withdrawing and using covers for some time to leave them recover.

 

I really hope that a regular reanimation for all models if unit still exist, apply in the command phase on top of the fnp otherwise it is useless.

or at least that we can reanimate ALL previously lost models after each attack against a unit to force the overkill.


Edited by angrom, 15 September 2020 - 08:29 AM.


#31
Karhedron

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The problem with the old RP was that it did not scale well. In a small battle, you could keep rolling for bots to get back up every turn and your opponent would struggle to wipe out large units at all. In large games it was very easy for opponents to focus-fire from multiple squads and wipe out a unit with no RP rolls happening.

Now we have a situation where it looks like you roll once for a Necron to get back up, immediately after the unit that killed it finishes attacking. This makes it slightly stronger than FNP in that a Necron killed by a multi-wound attack will still get back up on 5+ whereas a unit with FNP will have to make multiple FNP saves to negate the damage. The flip side is that if a unit can wipe out a unit in a single attack, no RP rolls are made. However 9th edition looks like MSU is going to be popular meaning that very few units will be able to wipe our non-MSU units in a single volley.

Granted there are unknowns such as what restrictions, bonuses or penalties may apply to those rolls. Whilst it looks you can't roll for a downed bot multiple times, that rarely happened against experienced opponents. Now it is far more likely that you will be able to make RP rolls more often than you could in 8th.

Overall I think this will shape how we play in 9th. Units with RP will benefit from being run in large blobs while MSU will suit canoptek units without RP that are used for harassment and objective grabbing.

I am pretty sure the new RP rules will make us more durable as we will be more likely to be able to make RP rolls more often than under the 8th edition rules.
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Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#32
angrom

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The problem with the old RP was that it did not scale well. In a small battle, you could keep rolling for bots to get back up every turn and your opponent would struggle to wipe out large units at all. In large games it was very easy for opponents to focus-fire from multiple squads and wipe out a unit with no RP rolls happening

 

I totally agree with that but the "New" reanimation protocol seems to not scale as good as the old one for small format while still suffering

with a minor margin to the same problem when playing bigger games.

 

 

I am pretty sure the new RP rules will make us more durable as we will be more likely to be able to make RP rolls more often than under the 8th edition rules.

 

This will only be true if we can reanimate all models previously fallen at each reanimation trigger. otherwise our units will just get easier and easier to wipe at each attempt

which means that they will be totally vulnerable to attrition which is exactly the opposite of what they were design for previously.

Now if if you top it up with less sources of reanimation buffs (no aura anymore) and inv save aura (targeted now) and many restrictions as being completely dependent

to the survival of your characters in a meta where every army have a way to snipe characters will end up in lower survivability.

 

Before the RP was either everything or nothing but was becoming more and more powerful as the game was advancing and enemy units were eliminated

Now it seems to be average all the time, character dependent and becoming worst and worst as the game goes on.



#33
Lemondish

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"Protocol of the Eternal Guardian gives light cover if you don't move"
Good on vehicles if they can use it. Otherwise not so great. 
 
Nobles will be in short supply if only lords/overlords count. Seeing as they can only really take 2-3 characters per detachment...
 
I love all these rules though. So excited. yes.gif 


Cover on objectives is fantastic, since most missions won't allow primary objectives to be placed within said cover, as far as I've seen.
 

This will only be true if we can reanimate all models previously fallen at each reanimation trigger. otherwise our units will just get easier and easier to wipe at each attempt
which means that they will be totally vulnerable to attrition which is exactly the opposite of what they were design for previously.
Now if if you top it up with less sources of reanimation buffs (no aura anymore) and inv save aura (targeted now) and many restrictions as being completely dependent
to the survival of your characters in a meta where every army have a way to snipe characters will end up in lower survivability.
 
Before the RP was either everything or nothing but was becoming more and more powerful as the game was advancing and enemy units were eliminated
Now it seems to be average all the time, character dependent and becoming worst and worst as the game goes on.



Do you not see value in being more resilient, but vulnerable to attrition, when the current implementation is that you are not making RP rolls at all?

Edited by Lemondish, 15 September 2020 - 01:30 PM.

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#34
Hathor42

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IMG_20200915_091803.jpg?width=449&height

Royal warden gets relentless march?


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#35
Nemesor Tyriks

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That would be great



#36
Amon777

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Seems like Reanimation Protocols work like the Graia trait for Ad Mech which is a great change. Essentially makes them much better against multi-dmg weapons compared to a FNP. Also makes them different from Death Guard.
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#37
Stupidity

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I'll admit I like the idea of necron wariors taking a volcano lance to the face and getting back up on a 5+

 

My amateur math says they have a 0.37 chance to survive?


Edited by Stupidity, 17 September 2020 - 11:08 PM.


#38
Karhedron

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Close, 0.333333

Of course at the moment we don't if 5+ will remain the baseline value of RP or what modifiers will exist to boost it.
Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#39
Bloody Legionnaire

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Close, 0.333333

Of course at the moment we don't if 5+ will remain the baseline value of RP or what modifiers will exist to boost it.

Don't we have a little bit of a clue though? Look at Szeras' rules of +1 to RP. Previously all the internet was upset that Szeras was essentially a "cool model with rules that sucked and didn't help necrons." With the way RP previously worked in 7th, his +1 to RP meant close to nothing. With new RP that +1 is pretty yuge... a Reanimator will probably function the same in adding +1RP.. now Imagine if the Reanimator and Szeras' RP modifiers stack.. 3+ RP sounds nasty!


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#40
Atrus

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Think my main concern with this (or rather the unknown of this) is the idea of the loss of the current RPs "cool" factor.

Having models get up in the later turns of the game that had gone down in the earlier ones is "cool".

FNP with extra steps is not "cool".
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#41
Marshal Valkenhayn

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Close, 0.333333

Of course at the moment we don't if 5+ will remain the baseline value of RP or what modifiers will exist to boost it.

 

 

 

He was factoring in the reroll 1s for Necron Warriors, and got pretty close. I believe the actual odds per model of a 5+ rerolling 1s is 0.389. If we can boost it to a 4+ it'll be 0.583.


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#42
nanosquid

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I'm willing to bet the Rez Orbs now let you manually trigger reanimations on your own turn, which gives them an actual use now.
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#43
Bonzi

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Think my main concern with this (or rather the unknown of this) is the idea of the loss of the current RPs "cool" factor.

Having models get up in the later turns of the game that had gone down in the earlier ones is "cool".

FNP with extra steps is not "cool".


Old Reanimation was cool...if you ever got to use it. It was a rare game for me that a unit could limp away from a fight and start building back up. Usually it was really good in small games, but when you hit 1,500+ it wasn't worth it.

From a gameplay mechanic perspective it was simultaneously clunky, ineffective, and easily countered. At least we will get to benefit from what the new rule seems to do.
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Xeno

Necrons

 

Imperium

Astra/Tempestus Militarum - Vostroyans

Blood Angels - Hands of Sacrifice

 

Traitor Legions

Emperors Children - Making Noise Marines Scream


#44
Szerekhan Overlord

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There is one other item that has me curious about reanimation protocols and whether or not there is still any other ways to reanimate fallen warriors.

 

On the Warhammer community page  July 28th this year there was a top 5 ideas to expand your Necron force. There is a caption about Illuminor Szeras in regards to his ability to use "rites of reanimation twice per turn"..... Not an ability he currently has..... It feels like on top of our quasi feel no pain there may yet be another means to resurrect the fallen.

 

Thoughts?

 

https://www.warhamme...tation ability.



#45
Kervin40k

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News for WHC (https://www.warhamme...ules-and-units/)

-RP happens after attacks

-dice are based on Wounds

-+5 to get back wounds only bring back whole models 

-max modifier of +/-1

-No mention of Necron player turn RP rolls



#46
Feste

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Also worth mentioning is that, as far as I can tell, it strongly suggests that you only roll for the Necrons who are destroyed in that attack, not all the destroyed Necrons that were in the unit.


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#47
Bonzi

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New rules are a big buff to single wound models and a crushing nerf to multiwound models.

Xeno

Necrons

 

Imperium

Astra/Tempestus Militarum - Vostroyans

Blood Angels - Hands of Sacrifice

 

Traitor Legions

Emperors Children - Making Noise Marines Scream


#48
Karhedron

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Also worth mentioning is that, as far as I can tell, it strongly suggests that you only roll for the Necrons who are destroyed in that attack, not all the destroyed Necrons that were in the unit.


Yes. This means that a unit will probably roll fewer RP dice but units are much more likely to be able to roll RP. This is probably a net gain.
Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#49
Kervin40k

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New rules are a big buff to single wound models and a crushing nerf to multiwound models.

Warrior Spam anyone?


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#50
Karhedron

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Silver tide looks to be back in a big way.
Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.




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