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Necron Reanimation Protocols


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#51
MasterDeath

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I assume/Hope thats there are ways to Roll for Models Destroyer earlier. Stratagems or relics maybe.

Edited by MasterDeath, 28 September 2020 - 03:15 PM.


#52
Karhedron

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I assume/Hope thats there are ways to Roll for Models Destroyer earlier. Stratagems or relics maybe.


This is possible but we won't know for sure until the Codex hits the decks.
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#53
Captain Idaho

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I think these new rules are terrible! They only happen when the unit is attacked, to models killed that attack, meaning all the models killed in the previous attack are gone. Destroyers may as well not have the rule!

Even for a large unit of Warriors, say 20, it's a rule that slows down the game for little gain.

- enemy squad A kills 3 Warriors. RP is rolled and 1 returns. 18 Warriors left.

- enemy squad B kills 4 Warriors. RP is rolled and 1 returns. 15 Warriors left.

- enemy squad C kills 4 Warriors. RP is rolled and 1 returns. 12 Warriors left.

So all that, 3 Warriors saved, time wasted.

And what happens if a unit of Warriors is down to 1 model? That model is alone forever and potentially combat ineffective. What's worse is the theme of playing a relentless tide of machines that raise from the dead are gone, because you're not attacking the unit.

Not impressed with this new change.
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#54
Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch

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Ghost Arks, resorbs, the Orb of Eternity, all allowed you to roll RP an additional time per turn. It’s possible that they may change to roll for all destroyed models in a unit.
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#55
Lord Raven 19

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It would be nice if maybe the canoptek reanimator was changed to allow it as well?


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#56
Captain Idaho

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Even so, bringing back Destroyers is very difficult. You need 3 successes to bring back 1, at least 6 for 2...

Very disappointed in that rule.
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#57
Nemesor Tyriks

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Yeah the RP and Protocols are a bit of a let down, but everything else looks good so far (assuming costs are reasonable). That said, this RP is still very likely more impactful than the old one, it just feels like they were very afraid to make it too good.
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#58
Iron Father Imeran Byon

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Yeah the RP and Protocols are a bit of a let down, but everything else looks good so far (assuming costs are reasonable). That said, this RP is still very likely more impactful than the old one, it just feels like they were very afraid to make it too good.

This is how I feel, too.

Sure, a straight up "roll a 5+ (or 4+, modified) and a whole Destroyer comes back" strongly favours multi-wound models and inherits the same problem of scalability at lower point games that RP always had since... well at least 8th Edition, maybe 7th, too.

But the "if you can't do three 5+ (or 4+) in one roll, say bye bye to that Destroyer!" also doesn't feel good.

 

I guess reanimating multi wound models with "remaining number of dice in the pool = their wounds after reanimating" was too close to a FnP for them?



#59
MagicHat

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Yeah the RP and Protocols are a bit of a let down, but everything else looks good so far (assuming costs are reasonable). That said, this RP is still very likely more impactful than the old one, it just feels like they were very afraid to make it too good.

This is how I feel, too.

Sure, a straight up "roll a 5+ (or 4+, modified) and a whole Destroyer comes back" strongly favours multi-wound models and inherits the same problem of scalability at lower point games that RP always had since... well at least 8th Edition, maybe 7th, too.

But the "if you can't do three 5+ (or 4+) in one roll, say bye bye to that Destroyer!" also doesn't feel good.

 

I guess reanimating multi wound models with "remaining number of dice in the pool = their wounds after reanimating" was too close to a FnP for them?

 

 

Then you could end up with 2 models lacking wounds in a single unit, which GW have tried to avoid with all their might.


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#60
Black Blow Fly

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It used to be you only rolled for models destroyed that turn... being to roll for every destroyed model in a unit is broken.


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#61
MasterDeath

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You only Roll for Models Killed by the triggering attack

#62
de Selby

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I am disappointed.   I played Death Guard all through 8th and was planning to play Necrons through 9th.   New rules, new sculpts, new army.   I like tough armies because in a game (like 9th ed) with strong first turn advantage it mean I at least get a couple of turns of play in my weekly game.

 

I always liked the concept of the downed necrons getting to keep rolling until they get back up.   I was planning to use blip markers to represent necrons eligible to resurrect in each unit.   It was different from the Death Guard rules and really thematic.   If they wanted to mitigate the effect of focus fire it would have been easy to introduce abilities or strategems to get extra rolls during your opponent's turn.

 

The new new rule is just like Disgustingly Resilient but more complicated and not as good.   It won't do much of anything for my new Skorpekh Destroyers.   I've already painted most of my new necrons (1300 pts so far) but I'm hoping there's more to resurrection than this or I'm just going to be playing Death Guard again.



#63
Iron Father Imeran Byon

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I am disappointed.   I played Death Guard all through 8th and was planning to play Necrons through 9th.   New rules, new sculpts, new army.   I like tough armies because in a game (like 9th ed) with strong first turn advantage it mean I at least get a couple of turns of play in my weekly game.

 

I always liked the concept of the downed necrons getting to keep rolling until they get back up.   I was planning to use blip markers to represent necrons eligible to resurrect in each unit.   It was different from the Death Guard rules and really thematic.   If they wanted to mitigate the effect of focus fire it would have been easy to introduce abilities or strategems to get extra rolls during your opponent's turn.

 

The new new rule is just like Disgustingly Resilient but more complicated and not as good.   It won't do much of anything for my new Skorpekh Destroyers.   I've already painted most of my new necrons (1300 pts so far) but I'm hoping there's more to resurrection than this or I'm just going to be playing Death Guard again.

I don't know. I feel that even for multi wound models it's better than a FnP, because if it was a FnP, then you'd also need three 5+ rolls to "save" that Destroyer, if he was anihilated in one attack. It would be slightly better over the course of multiple, weaker attacks, but then again it would be weaker against anything that does 4 or more Damage.

If a Knight Valiant shoots the Harpoon into your Skorpekh Destroyer, you "only" need three 5+ to keep him alive afterwards. A Disgustingly Resilient roll would require you to make ten 5+ rolls. This would be a fringe case, obviously. But with more and more weapons going up in damage (and/or going to 'D3+3 Dmg') it seems better than a straight up FnP, to me.

Of course, if the whole unit gets annihilated in one attack, the FnP would have been better, but then the old Reanimation Protocols wouldn't help you either, in that situation.


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#64
01RTB01

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Even so, bringing back Destroyers is very difficult. You need 3 successes to bring back 1, at least 6 for 2...

Very disappointed in that rule.


Chill, wait for the codex dude.

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#65
Amon777

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As others posted a huge buff for 1 wound models and a near useless buff to multi-wound models.

But, I will reserve my judgement for the full book as there will be ways of not just modifying the RP roll but also re-rolls. Pure speculation but there might even be ways to add dice to rolls.
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#66
de Selby

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The new new rule is just like Disgustingly Resilient but more complicated and not as good.   It won't do much of anything for my new Skorpekh Destroyers.   I've already painted most of my new necrons (1300 pts so far) but I'm hoping there's more to resurrection than this or I'm just going to be playing Death Guard again.

 

If a Knight Valiant shoots the Harpoon into your Skorpekh Destroyer, you "only" need three 5+ to keep him alive afterwards. A Disgustingly Resilient roll would require you to make ten 5+ rolls. This would be a fringe case, obviously. But with more and more weapons going up in damage (and/or going to 'D3+3 Dmg') it seems better than a straight up FnP, to me.

 

 

In the event a knight Valiant kills a Skorpekh with a harpoon, it has a 1 in 27 chance of getting back up.   I agree it will be hilarious if it happens.   I'm more worried about units with normal guns for normal people.   If they do 1-2 wounds, no benefit.   If they do 3-5 wounds, 1 in 27 chance of a skorpekh getting back up.   If they do 6-8 wounds, some chance of one getting back up, but still unlikely (I only get six rolls and three have to succeed).   If they do 9+ wounds... well currently that's the unit.

 

Of course I will play it and see.   There's no way to tell if new necrons will be overall powerfulI, well-balanced or hopeless against new marines.   I'm mostly just sad that I won't be able to use my cool blip markers or return units to full health once it's taken casualties from more than one enemy unit.

 

edit. I don't want to minimize the benefits for warriors.   I have just painted another thirty of those and this is better than Disgustingly Resilient for them.   But a bit boring.


Edited by de Selby, 28 September 2020 - 05:51 PM.

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#67
Kervin40k

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After re-reading the RP rule a few times over, I think multi-wound models (MWM) come out as a wash.  They are going to be as tough as a normal MWM but once you lose one you get dice = wounds of the model not the wounds lost that attack.  Then you need to roll for that many 5+.  So say you weather one attack only losing 2w on a 3w model, then next attack you lose that model and one more so you get 6 dice to roll and you only need 3 to get one back.  That is before taking into account anything that could give RP in the player turn, which I think will be used on MWM most of the time unless it is clinch to try and get back a troop that is nearly dead on a late game objective.  I am liking it.  



#68
01RTB01

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As others posted a huge buff for 1 wound models and a near useless buff to multi-wound models.

But, I will reserve my judgement for the full book as there will be ways of not just modifying the RP roll but also re-rolls. Pure speculation but there might even be ways to add dice to rolls.


Living metal will be a thing too.

I know many are grumbling but I'm genuinely excited.
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#69
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You only Roll for Models Killed by the triggering attack

 

Another thing to bear in mind is that it can only occur by the enemy shooting to fighting.  Any damage inflicted by effects in the movement, charge or psychic phases does not trigger this, or models fleeing in Morale.


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#70
Amon777

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You only Roll for Models Killed by the triggering attack


Another thing to bear in mind is that it can only occur by the enemy shooting to fighting. Any damage inflicted by effects in the movement, charge or psychic phases does not trigger this, or models fleeing in Morale.

Which makes the 5+++ FNP against mortal wounds dynasty trait make more sense.

#71
01RTB01

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Makes sense a fleeing necron doesn't repair...

Makes sense to me.
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#72
jaxom

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Hmm. If this new mechanic only works for models downed in that attack, it is actually poor long term but good the short term.

Which I'm actually disappointed with. It's the feel I would have that I could get models back that died 2 turns earlier. Necrons felt like they could come back if left alone and especially elites units like Destroyers that may have lost a single model a turn etc.

 

 

Also worth mentioning is that, as far as I can tell, it strongly suggests that you only roll for the Necrons who are destroyed in that attack, not all the destroyed Necrons that were in the unit.


Yes. This means that a unit will probably roll fewer RP dice but units are much more likely to be able to roll RP. This is probably a net gain.

 

 

I'm not actually sure about this. I can see an argument being made due to the following. After an enemy unit attacks:

 

"if any models were destroyed as result of those attacks, but this unit was not destroyed, this unit's reanimation protocols are enacted and those destroyed models begin to reassemble. Each time a unit's reanimation protocol are enacted, make Reanimation Protocol rolls for that unit by rolling a number of D6 equal to the combined Wounds characteristics of all the reassembling models.... Any models that did not Reanimate fail to reassemble, and any remaining dice in the pool are discarded "

 

The crux is: does failing to reassemble (transitioning to Reanimated) mean they no longer count as reassembling for future RP enactings? Or they failed to reassemble during this enacting of RP, but are still attempting to Reanimate?

 

I think your right that most will read it as applying to only "models [that are] destroyed as a result of those attacks" and the remaining dice in the pool being discarded represents the failed reassembled models being permanently lost. 

 

 

Yeah the RP and Protocols are a bit of a let down, but everything else looks good so far (assuming costs are reasonable). That said, this RP is still very likely more impactful than the old one, it just feels like they were very afraid to make it too good.

This is how I feel, too.

Sure, a straight up "roll a 5+ (or 4+, modified) and a whole Destroyer comes back" strongly favours multi-wound models and inherits the same problem of scalability at lower point games that RP always had since... well at least 8th Edition, maybe 7th, too.

But the "if you can't do three 5+ (or 4+) in one roll, say bye bye to that Destroyer!" also doesn't feel good.

 

I guess reanimating multi wound models with "remaining number of dice in the pool = their wounds after reanimating" was too close to a FnP for them?

 

 

I get the feeling this is because the designers wanted to tone down the inherent strength of RP so they could up the strength of individual units and other army-wide rules. I understand how iconic RP is, but if it's too powerful then there's little design space for working with other portions of the codex which deserve to have oomph as well.


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#73
Seahawk

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- RP doesn't work vs psychic powers anymore.
- RP function is buffed for 1W models.
- RP function is heavily nerfed for multiwound models.
- RP value is capped at 4+, no more 3+ or 2+.
- Can't bring back old dead models, only the newly dead.

Bookless Conclusion: Heavy nerf to RP. We'll see what the book brings, but the fact that we are reading THE rule, and as it stands everybody is saying well this sucks but let's wait and see on the rest of the book because who knows, that's bad. The defining rule of the army should be completely self contained, not dependent on a pile of support to be good.

I expect some decent points reductions across all infantry, but I know I'm going to be disappointed with increases instead.

Sure, you actually get to use the rule now compared to all of 8th, but after that difference its straight worse.



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Also GW: And we are heavily nerfing Reanimation protocols to hamstring multi-wound models.

Also GW: And let's give Dmg 2 Heavy bolters and better melta and more more damage all around!
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#74
Black Blow Fly

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Getting back a multi wound model with full wounds on one roll is ridiculous imo.
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#75
Amon777

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Getting back a multi wound model with full wounds on one roll is ridiculous imo.


Seeing the rule it seems like it would have been more fair you can at least get amount of wounds back you successfully rolled for.
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