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Necron Reanimation Protocols


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#176
Focslain

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Also I'd like to know what would give a -1 to RP, because currently I only know of things that give a +1 to RP.

 

 

Deathwatch special bullets

 

Ok, found the strat, Overkill.


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#177
Shadow Captain Vyper

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I'm in stitches right now... I'm more hyped for the FAQ/Director's Commentary right now than for the new rules themselves. teehee.gif

I'm not trying to leave someone with egg on their face. It's just a testament to how confusing and unfortunate that rule is worded. That's really my biggest issue with it. I love it for what it does, and I hate it for how it's written.

 

You're not wrong. It's a sign of the times. The GW rules team is growing and learning, and in an attempt to make things more clear, they in fact make them very hard to understand in practice. I've been gaming for over 20 years, and I have seen many a company try to take a "casual" game and make it "competitive". Writing rules (and harnessing the English language) is a difficult task (in this context) and takes some real experience (and guiding principles, which they seem to lack). I know in the past they had like a lead writer assigned to a book, who basically drafted the whole thing then submitted it for review/edit. I think it's done more by group now? It definitely strikes me as lacking in overall clarity/one voice, something a senior rules writer (or team) who gets final say on wording/edits over all projects would benefit from.

 

Baby steps and all that.


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#178
jaxom

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I think the biggest problem for this in respect of multi wound models is that through careful split fire you can make it very difficult to save those multi wound models.

If you have 3 units of, say, hellblasters and 3 units of destroyers, the conventional approach would, generally speaking be to align one unit to one unit (ignore the reality of how sensible that is based on the example units). In that situation say you manage to kill 3 destroyers there is a reasonable chance of one of them getting back up, as you are rolling a fair few dice.

However, the better play now is for each unit of hellblasters to split fire. Assuming the same results are achieved, then each helllblaster unit would still kill one destroyer in each squad (meaning a total of 3 dead across each squad). However, the chances of each of those destroyers getting back up is greatly diminished as they are now rolling significantly less dice (as these are determined after each ‘attack’) - the requirement to get the full wound back before reanimating a model is the real kicker here.

Hope that makes sense. Seems a bit of an odd result, and one which will slow play.

 

Makes sense and I will have to remember that. 

 

Yeah, that's an interesting take, almost like inverse target priority. You want to do enough wounds so it's unlikely a single unit shooting results in Reanimation, but also enough that the next unit shooting is likely to take down another one. Like, do 5 wounds, then do another 3 wounds, then another 3 wounds. 


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#179
Ishagu

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The style of rule writing in the 9th edition is absolutely awful.

It's detailed yes, but poorly written and unclear.
Such a chore to read it, so boring and so bloated.
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#180
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It is better to be more steps to prevent people trying to game them... we have already heard the term “grasping at straws”.

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#181
Ishagu

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Sure I agree. The detail end extra steps aren't the issue however - the rules are just badly written and read like waffle.
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#182
Vilicate

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I think the biggest problem for this in respect of multi wound models is that through careful split fire you can make it very difficult to save those multi wound models.

If you have 3 units of, say, hellblasters and 3 units of destroyers, the conventional approach would, generally speaking be to align one unit to one unit (ignore the reality of how sensible that is based on the example units). In that situation say you manage to kill 3 destroyers there is a reasonable chance of one of them getting back up, as you are rolling a fair few dice.

However, the better play now is for each unit of hellblasters to split fire. Assuming the same results are achieved, then each helllblaster unit would still kill one destroyer in each squad (meaning a total of 3 dead across each squad). However, the chances of each of those destroyers getting back up is greatly diminished as they are now rolling significantly less dice (as these are determined after each ‘attack’) - the requirement to get the full wound back before reanimating a model is the real kicker here.

Hope that makes sense. Seems a bit of an odd result, and one which will slow play.

 

Makes sense and I will have to remember that. 

 

Yeah, that's an interesting take, almost like inverse target priority. You want to do enough wounds so it's unlikely a single unit shooting results in Reanimation, but also enough that the next unit shooting is likely to take down another one. Like, do 5 wounds, then do another 3 wounds, then another 3 wounds. 

 

I mean, okay.  If you have to shoot three units at my one to kill three destroyers, I have caused you to make inefficient shooting, and am winning that war.  Besides, this is all better than the original for the first round, where if you just wiped them out I wouldn't get ANY chance to spike 5's and get a dude back.


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#183
jaxom

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I mean, okay.  If you have to shoot three units at my one to kill three destroyers, I have caused you to make inefficient shooting, and am winning that war.  Besides, this is all better than the original for the first round, where if you just wiped them out I wouldn't get ANY chance to spike 5's and get a dude back.

 

It's distributing three unit's shooting over three units; you split the shooting into thirds. Squad 1 splits fire between three Destroyer units (say of three Destroyers each) and kills one in each; bad odds of Reanimation. Squad 2 does the same; another Destroyer in each of the three Destroyer units goes down with poor odds of Reanimation. Squad 3 repeats it and the last Destroyer in each squad goes down. Now, is description is ignoring the specifics, but it displays the concept.


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#184
Wulf Vengis

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This is... Absurd.

Overly worded and lacking in appropriate definition without concrete examples given, is making what should be a simple "these three died and get to RP and try and get back up" into a mess of confusion and unclear intent.

The best example I've seen thus far is the photo quote giving an actual "in game" example. That however just highlights the difficulty in RP working on a "MWM".

A single wound model needing a 5+ to get back up is fine.
A multi wound model needing a 5+ for each wound on their profile would be fine, if they were allowed to get back up do long as they passed at least 1 RP roll. (Meaning something with 2 or more wounds might get back up but only have 1 wound left.)

I get it but it's overly worded and that over wording is causing more confusion especially combined with the authors intent.
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#185
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I mean, okay.  If you have to shoot three units at my one to kill three destroyers, I have caused you to make inefficient shooting, and am winning that war.  Besides, this is all better than the original for the first round, where if you just wiped them out I wouldn't get ANY chance to spike 5's and get a dude back.

 

It's distributing three unit's shooting over three units; you split the shooting into thirds. Squad 1 splits fire between three Destroyer units (say of three Destroyers each) and kills one in each; bad odds of Reanimation. Squad 2 does the same; another Destroyer in each of the three Destroyer units goes down with poor odds of Reanimation. Squad 3 repeats it and the last Destroyer in each squad goes down. Now, is description is ignoring the specifics, but it displays the concept.

 

Why is any Necron player taking three units of Destroyers?  Like I understand where you're coming from, and yes, if you're going to chip them you want to do it one at a time, but the situation is really far-fetched.  If you're wasting high-value shots on other stuff to try and only kill them one a time, you're still wasting high-value shots on other, less important targets.  It's a win/win for the Necron player if they make you do this.


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#186
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Every time someone overreacts here is more and more cringey the feeling .


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Edited by Black Blow Fly, 30 September 2020 - 01:04 AM.

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#187
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Thanks i think i understand how the reanimation protocols works a little better 


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#188
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#189
Hathor42

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if a multi wound model could get back up from just a single 5+/4+ that would be pretty bonkers under this new rule. 


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#190
angrom

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All what it require for it to work is to make an errata that state the passed reanimation dice pool is not discarded from an attack source to another so that the opponent cannot deny you to reanimate multi wound models by multiplying source of attacks. Simple, elegent and would make every passed reanimation dice count.
To be honest I am still not convinced if this was not the intended mechanic and that we get the wrong idea because of poor writting. Hopelly this will be corrected in errata

Edited by angrom, 30 September 2020 - 06:09 AM.


#191
Hathor42

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I think they are making it like the undead armies in AOS it's harder to bring back multi wound models because those units are more powerful.


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#192
Atrus

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Indeed. Iirc, cryptek were losing the RP aura buff in favour of having to select a target. If so, I can see the RP buffs going predominantly to MWMs to increase their survivability.

#193
Hathor42

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which is fine for warriors as they already have reroll 1's 



#194
Ahzek451

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Taking a stab and thinking that rites of reanimation is an ability done in the command phase that will allow a unit with the ability to select a necron unit that has lost models and allows them to roll to see if any get back up. 

 

This would help make up for what RP does not do for MW models as well as offer a chance to bring back models that did manage to fail repair rolls from RP. Essentially how our old RP works but on a limited scale. 



#195
OttoVonAwesome

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So were calling the rule badly written now cuase we don't like how it works? Read pretty straightforward to me. Anyone who thinks 9th is badly written ought to crack open any necromunda book.


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#196
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The thing about this that bothered me was its one-and-done nature. Seeing as the Rites of Reanimation ability has now been teased as bringing back models that had already died, I think I'll live. In honesty, I was more upset at the Necrons losing their core gimmick (coming back later in the game) than I was about how useful it was for destroyers. Hopefully we see similar abilities on more than just the Technomancer.

Edited by nanosquid, 03 October 2020 - 01:08 PM.

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#197
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The thing about this that bothered me was its one-and-done nature. Seeing as the Rites of Reanimation ability has now been teased as bringing back models that had already died, I think I'll live. In honesty, I was more upset at the Necrons losing their core gimmick (coming back later in the game) than I was about how useful it was for destroyers. Hopefully we see similar abilities on more than just the Technomancer.


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#198
Jings

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The thing about this that bothered me was its one-and-done nature. Seeing as the Rites of Reanimation ability has now been teased as bringing back models that had already died, I think I'll live. In honesty, I was more upset at the Necrons losing their core gimmick (coming back later in the game) than I was about how useful it was for destroyers. Hopefully we see similar abilities on more than just the Technomancer.


Big mood. Picked myself up a Necron force for the new Dex because they're cheap and cool and I like the idea of zombie robots, but reanimation protocols becoming basically a 6+++ FNP was a bit of a disappointment. Hopefully there's a decent amount of options ala the Res orb to bring back more in the command phase.

Edited by Jings, 04 October 2020 - 12:13 PM.


#199
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Res Orbs give old RP

Ghost arks and Technomancers resurrect d3 warriors (d6 with stratagem). 

Alternatively Technomancers can resurrect 1 core unit (tomb blades/immortals/deathmark) or once per game resurrect a destroyer or canoptek unit with an item.

Pretty sure that's everything. 


Edited by Stupidity, 04 October 2020 - 02:05 PM.


#200
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Res Orbs give old RP

Ghost arks and Technomancers resurrect d3 warriors (d6 with stratagem). 

Alternatively Technomancers can resurrect 1 core unit (tomb blades/immortals/deathmark) or once per game resurrect a destroyer or canoptek unit with an item.

Pretty sure that's everything. 

 

Important note though, each unit can only be targeted once for healing D3.


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Post link for all the instances in which Reanimation Protocols doesn't activate, but should. 





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